Illegal immigration: Myths vs. Facts

[Fremont]

Here are some facts to cancel out at least a few of the pathetic arguments used by advocates of illegal immigration.

This nation can no longer afford to allow “myth-information” slogans to sidetrack the nation from fulfilling the mandate of controlling the borders.

Myth: Illegal immigrants contribute greatly to the American economy.

Fact: Illegal immigration is a drain on the government of $11-22 billion annually.​

Myth: We are a nation of immigrants.

Fact: This myth is false on its face. Nearly 88 percent of the people living in the United States today are not immigrants; they were born here. This is a nation of natives, not a nation of immigrants.​

Myth: You cannot deport 12 million people.

Fact: The U.S. government needs to begin deporting illegal aliens, and even if it only deports a fraction of them over the next few years that would be progress. If the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency deported only two million of the 12 million illegal aliens, 10 million illegals would be better than 12 million.​

Myth: Illegal immigrants are only taking jobs Americans do not want.

Fact: Many illegal immigrants are able to work for less than market value because they don’t pay income or Social Security taxes and are able to take their entire paycheck (or cash) home. This is not only unfair competition against employers who follow the law and pay employees “above the table,” but it depresses the wage scale for Americans who would otherwise select jobs currently filled by illegal immigrants.​

Myth: Illegal immigrants have a right to come here. It is our Christian duty to provide hospitality.

Fact: Nearly two-thirds of the 32.5 million foreign-born people living in the United States entered this country legally, and the United States has more legal immigrants than any other country in the world. That’s hardly poor hospitality. The need to deport illegal aliens and secure our borders has nothing to do with persecuting minorities or lack of hospitality. The United States can continue to allow a large or small number of immigrants into this country legally, depending upon how many can be reasonably assimilated without destroying our American identity.

See more here:

thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_3745.shtml

 

[Jeffrey]

:clapping:

 

[Ridgerunner]

---

Myth: You cannot deport 12 million people.

I have known a lot of illegals, and the premise to this statement is all wrong. It assumes you HAVE TO deport them. I have never known an illegal who did not go back to his/her country of origin within a fairly short time after arrival. Some come back, and some don’t. This is really a border entry problem. If the borders were secure, most illegals would eventually deport themselves.

Some illegals probably don’t ever leave, but everybody knows who they are. They would be incredibly easy to catch. (Virtually ALL of the workers in the building trades around here are illegals, for example. Once upon a time, construction work was a good job, but not now.) Trouble is, the INS doesn’t really make them leave. They just tell them to return later, usually months later. The ones who don’t want to leave just buy another set of forged ID and stay right where they are.

A HUGE myth is that hassling employers will cure the illegal problem. Employers are forbidden by law from questioning ID that appears regular on its face, so even if you know “X” is illegal, if his ID looks right and says he has a work permit, you have to hire him or face discrimination charges and fines. Certainly, you can’t question the status of an employee of a subcontractor. In the building trades, for instance, virtually all work is done by subcontractors. So the primary employer has no idea whether any or all of the subcontractor’s employees are legal, and has no means of finding out. Subcontractors are usually of the same origin as the illegals themselves, but ARE legal. They know their employees are illegal, but don’t care. Some of them sell the phony ID to the employee to begin with. So, if the INS comes around (they almost never do) everybody has ID, and the subcontractor is off the hook.

I know legitimate employers who really do pay attention to documentation, who have had the same person return more than once with a different name and ID. You can’t refuse to hire “Y” just because you think he looks like “X”. (There’s some serious discrimination…they all look alike to you, do they???)

The border’s the first thing. Making INS a serious agency that really does its job is the second thing. Fix those things and nothing else will be needed.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Something else to think about though. The courts have conferred on aliens pretty much the same rights citizens have. Right now, with no real enforcement, most illegals are Hispanics; Christian, basically Western. If legal immigration is increased to offset curtailed illegal immigration, there is no way to discriminate in favor of Hispanics versus Islamic Jihadists. An answer might be to make immigration dependant on “ally” status of the country of origin. A good test would be membership in the “coalition of the willing”. If your country isn’t a member, don’t bother applying. Whether the courts would tolerate that is, of course, unknown.

 

[Ituyu]

The New American AKA The John Birch Society.

Unbelievable!!!

 

[marci]

Myth: You cannot deport 12 million people.

Fact: The U.S. government needs to begin deporting illegal aliens, and even if it only deports a fraction of them over the next few years that would be progress. If the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency deported only two million of the 12 million illegal aliens, 10 million illegals would be better than 12 million.

The US doesn’t have to deport anyone. All it has to do is take away all of the freebies ie, school, housing, medical care, and enforce current laws against hiring illegal workers. People will deport themselves.

 

[Fremont]

The US doesn’t have to deport anyone. All it has to do is take away all of the freebies ie, school, housing, medical care, and enforce current laws against hiring illegal workers. People will deport themselves.

I fully agree.

I do not think mass deportation is a viable option.

I believe we should do all we can to discourage illegal immigrants from trying to enter the US and we should do all we can to encourage illegals already here to leave the US.

Your suggestions are right on the “encourage them to leave” theme.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Here are some facts to cancel out at least a few of the pathetic arguments used by advocates of illegal immigration.

This nation can no longer afford to allow “myth-information” slogans to sidetrack the nation from fulfilling the mandate of controlling the borders.

Myth: Illegal immigrants contribute greatly to the American economy.

Fact: Illegal immigration is a drain on the government of $11-22 billion annually.​

Myth: We are a nation of immigrants.

Fact: This myth is false on its face. Nearly 88 percent of the people living in the United States today are not immigrants; they were born here. This is a nation of natives, not a nation of immigrants.​

Myth: You cannot deport 12 million people.

Fact: The U.S. government needs to begin deporting illegal aliens, and even if it only deports a fraction of them over the next few years that would be progress. If the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency deported only two million of the 12 million illegal aliens, 10 million illegals would be better than 12 million.​

Myth: Illegal immigrants are only taking jobs Americans do not want.

Fact: Many illegal immigrants are able to work for less than market value because they don’t pay income or Social Security taxes and are able to take their entire paycheck (or cash) home. This is not only unfair competition against employers who follow the law and pay employees “above the table,” but it depresses the wage scale for Americans who would otherwise select jobs currently filled by illegal immigrants.​

Myth: Illegal immigrants have a right to come here. It is our Christian duty to provide hospitality.

Fact: Nearly two-thirds of the 32.5 million foreign-born people living in the United States entered this country legally, and the United States has more legal immigrants than any other country in the world. That’s hardly poor hospitality. The need to deport illegal aliens and secure our borders has nothing to do with persecuting minorities or lack of hospitality. The United States can continue to allow a large or small number of immigrants into this country legally, depending upon how many can be reasonably assimilated without destroying our American identity.

See more here:

thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_3745.shtml

This post nor the reference actually have any proof, the FACT is you nor they have shown a single fact. This is simply opinion misrepresented

 

[LeahInancsi]

A college course in macro economics would teach the OP that a couple of his myths are not myths at all.

1. Eventhough illegal aliens don’t pay as much tax as they might if they were legal, they do contribute greatly to our economy.
2. If 12 million people of which maybe half are part of the US workforce, the economy of the US would very, very ugly for quite sometime.
3. There are absolutely jobs that legal residents will NOT do for the wage that illegals will or for any wage remotely close.

While I will mow my own grass in 100 degree heat to save $25, I will NOT mow anyone else’s grass for $25. As each day goes by, this 50 years old college-educated German/Irish/Hungarian-American woman appreciates the love that so many illegal Mexicans have for our country. This cannot be said for too many legal residents of this country.

BTW, name some of the people who will do the most meanial job you can think of that illegal Mexicans are currently doing?

 

[markomalley]

A college course in macro economics would teach the OP that a couple of his myths are not myths at all.
3. There are absolutely jobs that legal residents will NOT do for the wage that illegals will or for any wage remotely close.

While I will mow my own grass in 100 degree heat to save $25, I will NOT mow anyone else’s grass for $25. As each day goes by, this 50 years old college-educated German/Irish/Hungarian-American woman appreciates the love that so many illegal Mexicans have for our country. This cannot be said for too many legal residents of this country.

And a college class in micro-economics might teach you that there is a price point at which somebody ***will ***mow the lawn in 100 degree heat.

And a course in Christian ethics will teach you that it is immoral to hire people for slave labor wages that is falsely suppressed due to a surplus of available labor altering the equation.

(However, in the specific case of lawn care, everybody knows that lawns are made for teenagers or college students with an entrepreneurial spirit, a used mower, and a gas can…unfortunately, today’s teens are too spoiled for the most part to develop that entrepreneurial spirit)

BTW, name some of the people who will do the most meanial job you can think of that illegal Mexicans are currently doing?

For the right price, I would. And have. I’ve done lawns. I’ve washed cars. I’ve painted houses. I’ve pumped gas (I realize I’m dating myself here). I’ve washed dishes in restaurants.

 

[LeahInancsi]

So, ethically, we shouldn’t hire the Mexicans so they’ll have money to send home to their starving families. Instead, they too should stay in Mexico and starve?

 

[Just_wondering]

I have been an illegal migrant to a country - not immigrant, as I wasn’t planning to stay long. I know a lot of people who have illegally stayed in countries, but they weren’t immigrating, they were merely trying to earn a little money that they couldn’t make at home, before returning with a little nest egg to make ends meet back where they belong. Nobody I know wants to try to permanently immigrate illegally, because you’d always be afraid and looking over your shoulder.

I don’t know much about the situation in America, but let me tell you about what’s going on with illegals (and legal migrant workers) in Korea. My boyfriend is a legal migrant worker. He came here to earn money to save for his daughters’ college tuitions and to pay his grandmother’s hospital fees. He works 10 hours a day six days a week, and often longer. If he refuses overtime, his boss threatens to pull his visa sponsorship. When he arrived, his contract said 10 hours a day five days a week, and housing and meals provided. He was put in a shipping container (unheated, in the winter) to share with three other guys. “Meals” were rice and broth. When he complained to immigration officials, he was told there was nothing they could do. He gets paid about $800 a month. His Korean colleagues, for the same work, get paid $1500. In the Philippines, where my BF is from, he’d earn $300, if he could get a job at all.

My BF’s friend is an illegal migrant. He makes $900 a month, and knows that if he has a problem, he can run away because he’s already illegal and has nothing left to lose. He can also threaten to report his company for hiring illegally, so they take better care of him. He has a wife and family at home in the Philippines, so he’s not staying forever. He’s illegal here because he’s better able to protect his rights this way. The truth is, it takes months or years to get a visa, and then when you get it you have no recourse available when what you agreed on isn’t what you get.

People wouldn’t immigrate illegally if the rules took better care of foreign workers. The truth is, there will always be imbalances in labour supply and demand. If the government committed to making sure foreign employees were treated equitably, and had reasonable temporary migration procedures, there would be fewer problems.

 

[LeahInancsi]

Just wondering,

I think your example illustrates why illegal immigration and migration is so attraction in the United States. Although, they live with the possibility of being sent back to their own country, the US government will not allow them to be abused and will not deny them medical care, etc.

The problem with the scenario in your last paragraph is that the US doesn’t need that added people to the workforce, therefore there isn’t a need to require illegals to be treated equitably. When people say that legal workers in the US won’t do the jobs that illegals are currently doing, it’s because we have become spoiled with their cheap labor and our lower cost of living than if legals had to be paid twice as much.

So many people in the US want to whine about illegals coming into the US to work, but the problem with importing cheap goods into the US from China is just as bad if not worse. The goods we get from China can be made in the US by legals workers if the people in the US were willing to pay a higher price for the goods, but they won’t.

The people in the US are lazy and spoiled this country in quickly on it’s way to self-destruction. I thank God every day that I will not be leaving any decendants after to me.

 

[pnewton]

This post nor the reference actually have any proof, the FACT is you nor they have shown a single fact. This is simply opinion misrepresented

I noticed that too. It is amazing how much the word “fact” is abused on these forums. I am still aghast that the original poster linked the John Birchers for support. Perhaps someone can refute it with another reputable source, like the American Communist Party?

 

[SoCalRC]

I noticed that too. It is amazing how much the word “fact” is abused on these forums. I am still aghast that the original poster linked the John Birchers for support. Perhaps someone can refute it with another reputable source, like the American Communist Party?

There actually have been several studies on this, for example:

McCarthy, Kevin F., Vernez, Georges, “Immigration in a Changing Economy”, Rand Corporation (1997), ISBN 0-8330-2496-5

Covers an extensive RAND corportation study. So far, the preponderance of evidence suggests that cheap labor is a ‘plus’ for the economy.

Suarez-Orozco, Carola and Suarez-Orozco, Marcelo (2001) “Children of Immigration”, Harvard University Press

Seems to show that there is a generational plus for the economy as well.

So, perhaps a good way to start the conversation would be to define “myth” and “fact”. ‘What I loudly scream to be true!’ is probably a poor one for rational discussion.

But since the context is Catholic Social Justice - please bear in mind that our Christian obligation is clear. How we treat the “stranger” is one of the specific things the Son of Man will judge us on as Nations when his reign begins (Matt 25:31-46).

If anyone doubts that ‘stranger’ includes undocumented workers, see how Jesus defines “neighbor” in Luke, Chapter 10.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Here are some facts to cancel out at least a few of the pathetic arguments used by advocates of illegal immigration.

This nation can no longer afford to allow “myth-information” slogans to sidetrack the nation from fulfilling the mandate of controlling the borders.

Myth: Illegal immigrants contribute greatly to the American economy.

Fact: Illegal immigration is a drain on the government of $11-22 billion annually.​

Myth: We are a nation of immigrants.

Fact: This myth is false on its face. Nearly 88 percent of the people living in the United States today are not immigrants; they were born here. This is a nation of natives, not a nation of immigrants.​

Myth: You cannot deport 12 million people.

Fact: The U.S. government needs to begin deporting illegal aliens, and even if it only deports a fraction of them over the next few years that would be progress. If the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency deported only two million of the 12 million illegal aliens, 10 million illegals would be better than 12 million.​

Myth: Illegal immigrants are only taking jobs Americans do not want.

Fact: Many illegal immigrants are able to work for less than market value because they don’t pay income or Social Security taxes and are able to take their entire paycheck (or cash) home. This is not only unfair competition against employers who follow the law and pay employees “above the table,” but it depresses the wage scale for Americans who would otherwise select jobs currently filled by illegal immigrants.​

Myth: Illegal immigrants have a right to come here. It is our Christian duty to provide hospitality.

Fact: Nearly two-thirds of the 32.5 million foreign-born people living in the United States entered this country legally, and the United States has more legal immigrants than any other country in the world. That’s hardly poor hospitality. The need to deport illegal aliens and secure our borders has nothing to do with persecuting minorities or lack of hospitality. The United States can continue to allow a large or small number of immigrants into this country legally, depending upon how many can be reasonably assimilated without destroying our American identity.

See more here:

thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_3745.shtml

Why not just lift the entire article? LOL…

 

[LeahInancsi]

McCarthy, Kevin F., Vernez, Georges, “Immigration in a Changing Economy”, Rand Corporation (1997), ISBN 0-8330-2496-5

Covers an extensive RAND corportation study. So far, the preponderance of evidence suggests that cheap labor is a ‘plus’ for the economy.

Suarez-Orozco, Carola and Suarez-Orozco, Marcelo (2001) “Children of Immigration”, Harvard University Press

Seems to show that there is a generational plus for the economy as well.

Amen. Thank you for confirmation of my logic.

 

[consumedconvert]

---

Myth: We are a nation of immigrants.

Fact: This myth is false on its face. Nearly 88 percent of the people living in the United States today are not immigrants; they were born here. This is a nation of natives, not a nation of immigrants.

OK, so we are a nation of the Children or Grandchildren or (etc.) of immigrants. The overwhelming majority of us are descended from mirgrants. Except, that is, for the twelve percent of us who, according to your statistic, are migrants.

Does that make you feel better?

 

[markomalley]

So, ethically, we shouldn’t hire the Mexicans so they’ll have money to send home to their starving families. Instead, they too should stay in Mexico and starve?

Now, did I say that?

What I **did **say was: And a course in Christian ethics will teach you that it is immoral to hire people for slave labor wages that is falsely suppressed due to a surplus of available labor altering the equation.

What the Church says is:298. Institutions in host countries must keep careful watch to prevent the spread of the temptation to exploit foreign labourers, denying them the same rights enjoyed by nationals, rights that are to be guaranteed to all without discrimination. Regulating immigration according to criteria of equity and balance [643] is one of the indispensable conditions for ensuring that immigrants are integrated into society with the guarantees required by recognition of their human dignity. Immigrants are to be received as persons and helped, together with their families, to become a part of societal life.[644] In this context, the right of reuniting families should be respected and promoted.[645] At the same time, conditions that foster increased work opportunities in people’s place of origin are to be promoted as much as possible.[646]

Footnotes:

[643] Cf. John Paul II, Message for the 2001 World Day of Peace, 13: AAS 91 (2001), 241; Pontifical Council “Cor Unum” - Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Migrants and Itinerant People, Refugees: a Challenge to Solidarity, 6: Libreria Editrice Vaticana, Vatican City 1992, p. 10.

[644] Cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2241.

[645] Cf. Holy See, Charter of the Rights of the Family, art. 12, Vatican Polyglot Press, Vatican City 1983, p. 14; John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris Consortio, 77: AAS 74 (1982), 175-178.

[646] Cf. Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Pastoral Constitution Gaudium et Spes, 66: AAS 58 (1966), 1087-1088; John Paul II, Message for the 1993 World Day of Peace, 3: AAS 85 (1993), 431-433.(From the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church)
2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.

…

2434 A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice.220 In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. **“Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good.”**221 Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.(From the Catechism of the Catholic Church)

So the bottom line is that if you are paying an “illegal Mexican” (your words) dirt wages to mow your lawn in the middle of the summer…and paying him less than what an American would be entitled to for the same job, you are committing a “grave injustice” (the Church’s words). And your statement, So, ethically, we shouldn’t hire the Mexicans so they’ll have money to send home to their starving families. Instead, they too should stay in Mexico and starve? is nothing other than rationalizing your behavior.

(continued)

 

[markomalley]

(continued from last post)

The fact of the matter is that the teaching of the Church states that we owe them a living wage, the same as what we pay our own citizens for the same task (and maybe more if the going rate is not a just rate).

It also states that our government has the right to regulate immigration. Immigrants, in turn, need to respect that (according to the teaching of the Church), to work to assimilate into their new society, and to support their civic responsibilities (an example of a civic responsibility is to pay taxes).

Well, what’s going on now is not what the Church teaches.

What I see is:

• Immigrants not assimilating. Instead, we are accomodating them to the degree where they have minimal reason to assimilate (Press 1 for English para due per Español). Even ballots are printed in multiple languages (I thought a knowledge of English was a requirement for naturalization…and I thought citizenship was a requirement to vote )
• Immigrants (illegal ones, at least) are not performing their civic duties. Some pay taxes, I am certain. But does your $25 lawn boy (or girl) pay taxes?
• Immigrants (illegal ones, at least) are not obeying our laws (at least title 8 of the United States Code).
  On the other hand, I also see:
• Employers, including some homeowners, exploit illegal aliens, hiring them on the side, paying them dirt for wages, and working them half to death (rationalizing it that the conditions ‘back home’ are worse) – thus increasing the demand for people to make the dangerous, illegal trek here in the cover of night.
• Big business using the power of the purse to lobby (successfully) Congress and the Executive to try to pass laws to further vastly increase the supply of available low-tech labor, suppressing the negotiable wage by existing labor and further allowing the exploitation of the common person.
  How about this instead: work to improve the lot of folks in countries that are the source for illegal immigration. Work for social justice there. But once a person is legally here, then don’t exploit them. (i.e., do what the Church teaches).