Illegal immigration

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Lance

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I am disappointed that president Bush has not taken a stronger stand against illegal immigration. We should never reward those who broke the law to get here. I am not anti-immigration, I am against illegal immigration. I am not sure more border guards are the answer. We certainly need them and they should have the latest and best equipment and there should be enough of them to do their jobs. I think what is needed is a crack down on employers who hire illegals. They pay them cheap wages and give them no health care, in Illinois about 1/3 of the people who seek medical attention at emergency rooms with out insurance are here illegally. So the employers are forcing the taxpayers to foot the bill for their employees’ medical attention. If these employers were forced to hire only legal residents they would have to pay more and offer benefits such as health care and the cost of their product or service would go up, however I believe it would be less expensive that having the taxpayer foot the bill for their medical cost. If we dry up the job market for illegals then they will not come and if all the people working are here legally it will be better for the economy. An added benefit would be that the border guards could focus on the bad guys who want to come here to harm us and not worry about the guy who just wants a job and a little financial security. I hope president Bush will take a stronger stand against illegal immigration tonight in his State of the Union address than he has in the past. OK, now I will get off my soap box.
 
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Lance:
I am disappointed that president Bush has not taken a stronger stand against illegal immigration. .
You will be more disappointed when you learn about what the Church is doing.
 
Lance wrote:" They pay them cheap wages and give them no health care, in Illinois about 1/3 of the people who seek medical attention at emergency rooms with out insurance are here illegally. So the employers are forcing the taxpayers to foot the bill for their employees’ medical attention. If these employers were forced to hire only legal residents they would have to pay more and offer benefits such as health care and the cost of their product or service would go up,"

I live in a Texas County that is on the Mexican Border. The County pickes up the bill for indigent health care. Illegals are considered indigent even though they may have $500 in their pocket. Just this last Monday the local news reported that the County was billed for a health care cost of almost 4 million dollars in for 2004. We tax payers pay a County tax of which about 30% goes to pay for illegals health care. We pay for them. Who pays for me? Me.
 
Not just the health care costs to consider but the impact on the justice system is absolutely staggering. We’ve had several very expensive cases where illegals received taxpayer paid legal assistance. One cop killer was from a small village in Mexico and the taxpayers footed the bill for a special translator of this dialect. While many illegals are here working hard and just trying to feed their families, it does not go unnoticed how much of the drug trade is done by illegals (mostly Mexican in this area) and how much violent crime results from their participation in the drug trade.

I’m listening to Victor Davis Hansen on the same issue. He says (and I sure agree) until we a) have SEVERE penalties for employers, b) NO DRIVERS LICENSES OR FREE HEALTH CARE and get serious with the Mexican government about THEIR role in this drama, we will continue to have our social services and justice departments overwhelmed to the detriment of our own citizens.

Lisa N
 
Hanson just said California paid $450MILLION to incarcerate illegals. He said they could start up two four year colleges for the same price.

It’s a disgrace.

Lisa N
 
Bobby Jim:
To whom much has been given, much will be required?
If you mean what I think you mean, no one I know of is against legal immigration. We are a nation of immigrants, we depend on immigration for our economy. We just want them to follow the rules and be legal. What is so wrong with that? In addition to all the other problems illegal immigration causes it is a security threat to each and everyone of us. A suicide bomber is not going to be wearing a turban and look like Osama bin Laden, he could look like anyone and we need to know who is entering our country and what their intentions are. I know there is a large problem with Mexican illegal immigration but in Illinois we also have problems with illegals from Poland and Eastern Europe.
 
Lisa N:
Not just the health care costs to consider but the impact on the justice system is absolutely staggering. We’ve had several very expensive cases where illegals received taxpayer paid legal assistance. One cop killer was from a small village in Mexico and the taxpayers footed the bill for a special translator of this dialect. While many illegals are here working hard and just trying to feed their families, it does not go unnoticed how much of the drug trade is done by illegals (mostly Mexican in this area) and how much violent crime results from their participation in the drug trade.

I’m listening to Victor Davis Hansen on the same issue. He says (and I sure agree) until we a) have SEVERE penalties for employers, b) NO DRIVERS LICENSES OR FREE HEALTH CARE and get serious with the Mexican government about THEIR role in this drama, we will continue to have our social services and justice departments overwhelmed to the detriment of our own citizens.

Lisa N
You know Lisa, we’ve kinda done this to ourselves. First of all by killing 50 million of our own babies. This has had the effect of creating a huge hole in our labor pool. The American economic engine has a huge demand for labor. That demand could have been met by our own people had we not killed them. So what I think we’re witnessing here is consequences.
 
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miguel:
You know Lisa, we’ve kinda done this to ourselves. First of all by killing 50 million of our own babies. This has had the effect of creating a huge hole in our labor pool. The American economic engine has a huge demand for labor. That demand could have been met by our own people had we not killed them. So what I think we’re witnessing here is consequences.
It has more to do with the bottom dollar than it does the consequences of abortion. Why pay a tax paying citizen at least minimum wage when you can pay an illegal alien a flat $400 a week for the same work? Plus, you strike the health care benefits, 401k, FICA taxes paid.
 
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wabrams:
It has more to do with the bottom dollar than it does the consequences of abortion. Why pay a tax paying citizen at least minimum wage when you can pay an illegal alien a flat $400 a week for the same work? Plus, you strike the health care benefits, 401k, FICA taxes paid.
You are right, and the average American thinks he is getting a deal when he can get his lawn cut, buy groceries or a meal at a restaurant for less because the owner is hiring illegals. What he does not realize is that he is paying for the illegals’ benefits through his taxes. If the business were to hire only legals and pay them a living wage and give them some benefits we would all be better off.
 
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wabrams:
It has more to do with the bottom dollar than it does the consequences of abortion. Why pay a tax paying citizen at least minimum wage when you can pay an illegal alien a flat $400 a week for the same work? Plus, you strike the health care benefits, 401k, FICA taxes paid.
Obviously, that’s a factor. But there is still a huge demand for millions of illegals to be here. Our unemployment rate is less than 5%, so I don’t think they’re taking jobs away from Americans.
 
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miguel:
Obviously, that’s a factor. But there is still a huge demand for millions of illegals to be here. Our unemployment rate is less than 5%, so I don’t think they’re taking jobs away from Americans.
Might be true, but abortion isn’t the big reason. Don’t under estimate man’s greed.
 
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wabrams:
Might be true, but abortion isn’t the big reason. Don’t under estimate man’s greed.
So killing 50 million people is insignificant.:rolleyes:

I don’t underestimate market forces, or as you put it, greed. But the greed is not only exhibited by business owners. The illegals themselves are more than happy to take all the public benefits we give them. Add these benefits on top of their low wages, and they’re not doing too bad. And that’s why they’re here and not in Mexico.
 
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miguel:
So killing 50 million people is insignificant.:rolleyes: /QUOTE]

I didn’t say it was insignificant, just that it has little bearing to this topic. Besides, best estimates are there haven’t been 50 million abortions since illegal immigration became a major issue over the last 7-12 years.
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miguel:
I don’t underestimate market forces, or as you put it, greed. But the greed is not only exhibited by business owners. The illegals themselves are more than happy to take all the public benefits we give them. Add these benefits on top of their low wages, and they’re not doing too bad. And that’s why they’re here and not in Mexico.
Most illegals recieve little to no benefits. The health care cost come from them using public clinics and hospitals that must treat everyone coming through the door.
 
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wabrams:
Most illegals recieve little to no benefits. The health care cost come from them using public clinics and hospitals that must treat everyone coming through the door.
That’s partly what I meant when I said “public benefits”. I also meant public education…at all levels. In California, at the state universities, they only have to pay resident tuition. You, being from out of state, would have to pay non-resident tuition, which is much higher. So I wouldn’t characterize the tax-subsidized benefits as little to none.
 
16 posts on a Catholic forum regarding an important issue and so far not one reference to what the Church has said on this issue.
 
A Resolution by the National
Conference of Catholic Bishops


Spanish Version

1
. We, the bishops of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, at our annual meeting in Washington, D.C., call upon our federal policymakers to reexamine our immigration laws and enact legislative and administrative reforms which uphold the basic dignity and human rights of immigrants and preserve the unity of the immigrant family.

2. Immigrants from lands across the globe have helped build our great nation. Newcomers have contributed to our nation by strengthening our cultural and social fabric and adding their energies and ideas to our economy. Their presence has enriched our local communities, rural areas, and cities, and their faith in God has enlightened our increasingly secularized culture. In this Jubilee Year 2000 and throughout the new century, we recommit ourselves to celebrate and embrace newcomers and acknowledge the rich contributions they make to our nation.

3. The Catholic Church has historically held a strong interest in immigration and how public policy impacts immigrants seeking a new life in the United States. We believe that the current configuration of our immigration laws combined with immigration policies pursued by our government in the last several years have had the negative effects of undermining the human dignity of immigrants and dividing immigrant families. We urge our federal policymakers to revise our nation’s immigration laws and policies in a manner which includes the following elements: legalization for the maximum number of persons in an undocumented or irregular legal status, particularly those who have lived here for several years and built equities in and otherwise contributed to their communities; enforcement policies, most particularly along the United States-Mexico border, which respect the human dignity and human rights of all immigrants, regardless of their legal status; revision of the 1996 immigration laws, which undermine the procedural due process rights of immigrants in our country, limit protections for asylum seekers, and are retroactive in nature; revision of the 1996 welfare law, which severely restricts the eligibility of legal immigrants for public benefits; repeal of mandatory detention of immigrants and development of alternatives to detention, especially for women and children, as well as the release of immigrants who have completed their sentences but are indefinitely detained because their country of origin will not accept their return; enforcement of and respect for the civil and workplace rights of immigrant workers, especially those in industries which rely heavily on foreign workers (i.e., agriculture, meat and poultry processing, service); a more efficient legal immigration system with reduced waiting times which is equitable, generous, and based upon family reunification; U.S. foreign and economic policies which fully address the conflict, poverty, and denial of human rights which pressure persons to come to this country; and a religious worker visa program which is permanently authorized and which more efficiently permits foreign religious workers into our country to perform pastoral work on behalf of the Catholic Church in the United States and all other U.S. religious denominations.
 
4. While we recognize the right and acknowledge the responsibility of the U.S. government to secure our national borders and do not condone or encourage undocumented migration into the United States, we nevertheless affirm the dignity of undocumented persons who live in our midst and make every effort to ensure that their human rights are respected and protected. Until such time as the global community effectively addresses the root causes of undocumented migration, individual nations must confront the presence of undocumented persons in a manner which upholds their basic dignity and human rights.

5. At the advent of a new Congress and new Administration, now is a good time to reevaluate our nation’s immigration laws and policies. The American people must consider how to embrace the contributions of immigrants and, in the process, better our communities and nation. Our elected leaders must build an immigration system which acknowledges the increasing interdependence of our world and accounts for the migration streams which characterize the new globalization.

6. We, the U.S. Catholic bishops, stand ready to work with our public officials to fashion a new immigration model which prepares our nation for the 21st century while also upholding and respecting the human rights and dignity of immigrants and their families. We do so as pastors devoted to providing the full range of pastoral, legal, and social services to newcomers to our land. We offer, in particular, the experience of our nationwide refugee resettlement and legal immigration networks as a source of information on the needs and aspirations of newcomers in our country and on the reforms that are necessary in our nation’s laws and policies.

7. At the threshold of a new millennium, our nation must revisit its historic roots and reexamine attitudes, laws, and policies toward newcomers who come to our land in search of a better life. We call upon all Catholics and citizens of good will to heed our Lord’s call and challenge:* “For I was a stranger and you welcomed me.”* (Matthew 25:35)

November 2000
 
We may do alot of complaining, but I think Americans have been more than generous to illegal immigrants in terms of public benefits. Do you think Americans could go down there by the millions and get free education and free health care? Mexico with its oppressive, socialist, mismanagement, has driven millions north, where there is a demand for their labor. They know they’re much better off here, otherwise they’d still be in Mexico.
 
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