I'm a convert , but there's something miss from my Protestant church

[lak611]

I think that there is absolutely a cultural difference and I think it causes a lot of stress, not only for us converts, but also for Catholics who are very comfortable with the culture they have, and they don’t like people coming around and trying to change the atmosphere or make demands on them.

I’ve seen this especially in the Traditional threads here. It inevitably comes up that the Church is caving in to Protestant converts. There is a real resentment that is taking place because of the cross over between the Catholic culture and the Protestant culture.

How this eventually all works out, I haven’t a clue. There are times when reading some of these things, I get the distinct impression that many Catholics would prefer that Protestants not convert and cause such stress for the Catholics in having to deal with all this.

It’s a changing world, and people don’t like change. We converts are finding it difficult to adjust to a culture that is completely foreign to us and where we frankly at times, don’t feel as though we are even welcome.

The cradle Catholics are feeling very stressed because the Church is recognizing:

1) it is losing a lot of it’s own due to it’s inability to change readily in the non-essentials, (such as disciplines and practices, not doctrine here. ), without causing major upheavals and even abuses;

2) the number of Protestants and Catholic reverts coming in from the Evangelical world with a hunger for both the Truth of Catholicism and the joy of Evangelicalism.

I don’t know that it will be resolved in our lifetimes, I doubt very seriously it will, but what we are seeing is growing pains, and they don’t call them pains for nothing.

And for some reason, we have all been called to come into the Church together at this place and time in history to try to sort it all out. I mean, is there anyone of us who even doubts that we were called by God to the Church? And I’m sure that we don’t any of us believe that what we had as Evangelicals/Protestants was all wasted, we bring some very valuable spiritual gifts with us that are meant for the whole Church to be edified by.

So the best we can do is be who we are and at the same time try to assimilate as best we can without causing to much stress on those around us, pray for our parishes and fellow Catholics, our Priests and Bishops and the Pope, who have the headache of having to try to make sense of all this and keep some semblance of peace and order, and let the Holy Spirit do His thing in the midst of it all.

Can I hear an Amen?

I think what you are saying is true of us who are reverts as well. There are not only cradle Catholics and converts, but reverts too. Reverts probably fit more into the convert category.

 

[Jeanette_L]

I think what you are saying is true of us who are reverts as well. There are not only cradle Catholics and converts, but reverts too. Reverts probably fit more into the convert category.

The cradle Catholics are feeling very stressed because the Church is recognizing:

1) it is losing a lot of it’s own due to it’s inability to change readily in the non-essentials, (such as disciplines and practices, not doctrine here. ), without causing major upheavals and even abuses;

2) the number of Protestants **and Catholic reverts **coming in from the Evangelical world with a hunger for both the Truth of Catholicism and the joy of Evangelicalism.

I had you covered Laura!

I just had such a long speech going on it got lost in there!

 

[chewchoo]

i kept thinking about this thread on the way home, and since i began to seriously understand/practice my faith i have had frantic moments of why the people around me aren’t as excited as i am?? they need to see that what they’re doing is wrong! when are they going to wake up? we need to save their souls!!

i have talked to one priest about this and i have read some information about this and it basically comes down to fr. solanus’s quote that’s in my signature below. we (you, me, and the guy over there; all of us) aren’t going to change anybody, we aren’t going to wake anybody up. that’s God’s job. and he is doing it, one convert, revert, and fired-up cradle at a time.

we need to follow st. monica’s example and pray.

pray for the rest of our lives. we can plant seeds, as the saying goes, but we don’t make them grow.

i have a friend with a very sick son and i was worried that this trial was going to stress her relationship with God. when i talked with her today i found out just the opposite! she said this experience is drawing her closer to God!!! God draws us to him in his own way and in his own time.

and so where do the potlucks and camping trips fit into this? i don’t know? i don’t know the convert mindset. but if it’s something that’s missing for your spiritual comfort then reach out to those like minded catholics, the converts and reverts. i’m not saying close the door on cradles and consider them lost, but target those who know what you are missing. some cradles will join in and then a little more and then a little more.

and remember, we know how this story is going to end. we’ve already read the last chapter of the good book peace

 

[katy]

AMEN!!! :heaven: :clapping:

 

[Jeanette_L]

i kept thinking about this thread on the way home, and since i began to seriously understand/practice my faith i have had frantic moments of why the people around me aren’t as excited as i am?? they need to see that what they’re doing is wrong! when are they going to wake up? we need to save their souls!!

i have talked to one priest about this and i have read some information about this and it basically comes down to fr. solanus’s quote that’s in my signature below. we (you, me, and the guy over there; all of us) aren’t going to change anybody, we aren’t going to wake anybody up. that’s God’s job. and he is doing it, one convert, revert, and fired-up cradle at a time.

we need to follow st. monica’s example and pray.

pray for the rest of our lives. we can plant seeds, as the saying goes, but we don’t make them grow.

i have a friend with a very sick son and i was worried that this trial was going to stress her relationship with God. when i talked with her today i found out just the opposite! she said this experience is drawing her closer to God!!! God draws us to him in his own way and in his own time.

and so where do the potlucks and camping trips fit into this? i don’t know? i don’t know the convert mindset. but if it’s something that’s missing for your spiritual comfort then reach out to those like minded catholics, the converts and reverts. i’m not saying close the door on cradles and consider them lost, but target those who know what you are missing. some cradles will join in and then a little more and then a little more.

**and remember, we know how this story is going to end. we’ve already read the last chapter of the good book ** peace

Thank you Fr. Corapi!

I know you’re probably tired of hearing all the whining and complaining, huh? I guess I can only liken it to if you were all of a sudden transported to another country and told this is your new home, now learn to live there. Only they all speak a language you don’t really know, their customs and culture are completely foreign to you and most don’t seem to notice you are lost and feel out of place and just want to connect with someone who makes you feel a little more at home. This is a small part of the convert struggle.

It’s an adjustment, and there are just an awful lot of us here going through it at once.

You are going through it part way - you grew up Catholic so you don’t have that part to learn, but you are discovering it means so much more than you ever imagined and are frantic that no one else seems to notice or care. That part we can all agree that we see and feel together.

:grouphug:

We’ll all get through it, and at least we know we aren’t truly alone, we’ve well established that!

 

[Cairisti]

Thank you Fr. Corapi!

I know you’re probably tired of hearing all the whining and complaining, huh? I guess I can only liken it to if you were all of a sudden transported to another country and told this is your new home, now learn to live there. Only they all speak a language you don’t really know, their customs and culture are completely foreign to you and most don’t seem to notice you are lost and feel out of place and just want to connect with someone who makes you feel a little more at home. This is a small part of the convert struggle.

It’s an adjustment, and there are just an awful lot of us here going through it at once.

:grouphug:

We’ll all get through it, and at least we know we aren’t truly alone, we’ve well established that!

Jeanette,
that’s a great example.

It is an adjustment. Glad to have CAF (and DCF) to come to.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Jeanette,
that’s a great example.

It is an adjustment. Glad to have CAF (and DCF) to come to.

:yup: :hug1:

 

[byers]

Jeanette L. - you really did a good job in a previous post of summarizing some of the problems from both sides. I’m a cradle Catholic with evangelical relatives and friends. There is a huge difference in not only the culture, but the spirituality of the two groups…or at least what is called ‘spirituality’. The mindset is very different.

Evangelicals seem to only want to associate socially with those who are exactly like themselves. There is a lot of “emotional” support but in truth this becomes nothing more than a social club and really has nothing to do with one’s ‘spirituality’…In fact this does not particularly lead to spiritual growth. More time in private prayer, helping others etc does lead to growth. Often many of the activities of evangelicals are more for purposes of recruitment. Or for having a social circle of friends.

Catholics have always tried to live their lives in the world. Their social lives and contacts were not dominated by just other catholics. There ‘spirituality’ is part of their lives at work, at home or anywhere else they happen to be. Everything they do does not have to be associated with something that sounds ‘religious’ like for example, “bible studies”. Nor do they feel the need to be constantly talking about religion. The idea is to actually live out their faith in the world.

Except for the last sentence, I completely disagree with this quote:

Many Catholics just seem to be content with being spiritual while there at Mass or doing a devotion. Other than that, they forget about spirituality when they are having lunch with a friend, make a phone call, watch television, go to the movies, or just having a conversation outside the confines of the church. If you do bring up spiritual topics, they show lack of interest. Being Catholic is a 24 hr thing.

Catholics are not ‘forgetting’ about their spirituality while they watch tv, go to movies or whatever. They are just living their lives…as catholics. Being spiritual is indeed a 24hour thing, but it doesn’t mean you only associate with other catholics or socialize only with them, nor do you talk about religious stuff constantly…you LIVE it. You try to grow in virtue, work on your sins and so forth. Just because you are not constantly talking about ‘religious’ topics does not mean you are “forgetting” about spirituality except at church. Far from it.

In fact it used to be the catholic understanding, that constantly going around talking about religion was a good sign that someone was NOT growing spiritually, but instead trying to put on a ‘spiritual’ or ‘religious’ act. See how holy I am and see how much on fire I am for the Lord. It’s almost a form of bragging and far from humility.

Just because catholics are not involved in tons of “religious” activities or doing something associated with “church” does not mean they are not “spiritual”.

The initial joy and enthusiasm of converts is wonderful…but it does need to mature into a less superficial and deeper spirituality.

I heard one older pastor tell a group of new converts almost the opposite of what most are told today. He told them, don’t join or do anything extra for your first year. Just spend it sitting in the pew and learning to be “Catholic”…and then later slowly you can become more active. He gave IMHO good advice.

Perhaps the Church needs to have some groups and classes just for converts and reverts so they can get together and discuss their faith and become more comfortable living as a Catholic.

 

[envchemist]

Well I AM a convert. I have also taken some management courses and what you have to do (if you want to have something different in your parish) is to change the culture. Most people handle this situation by feeling sad but truly believing nothing can be done. I tell you seize the day and begin to change the culture. I am personally doing this myself along with others. And things don’t change fast…but that’s OK. All we can do is to try and encourage others to try. Start with MUSIC…I think that’s the key personally!

God Bless!

 

[brigid12]

At my previous protestant church, before my conversion, we also had rotating dinner groups (I loved those!), men’s baseball, etc. I do miss the closeness of a spiritual family and the barn-raising-type community church events.
I wonder if it doesn’t have something to do with VII taking Catholics out of their “ghetto”, but not leading them specifically to something to take its place (I think that all human beings yearn for this fellowship - and historically Catholics had it too, in their ghetto) . I’m just guesstimating about that - I wasn’t around or Catholic 100 years ago. Plus, there were very few single people not living with their extended families so the loneliness wasn’t as usual. Even the small families had other parts of their extended families right there. I think partly we’re living in a really impersonal, lonely time/culture.
Yes, I really miss it. This is an area with a fairly small percentage of Catholics, none of my family are Catholic plus I’m single so Mass (I’m starting to get involved with the choir at my parish and it’s looking good) and Catholic internet forums are my only fellowship with other Catholics, right now. I keep thinking that there are others in my parish feeling the same way, but I don’t know just how best to change that. At least we have the Eucharist and Peter’s successor!

 

[djrakowski]

Jeanette L. - you really did a good job in a previous post of summarizing some of the problems from both sides. I’m a cradle Catholic with evangelical relatives and friends. There is a huge difference in not only the culture, but the spirituality of the two groups…or at least what is called ‘spirituality’. The mindset is very different.

My goodness, is it possible at all to discuss what’s good about Catholicism without launching into a broadside attack against Protestant spirituality (in scare quotes, of course, because we KNOW they can’t do REAL spirituality like us Catholics!)

Evangelicals seem to only want to associate socially with those who are exactly like themselves. There is a lot of “emotional” support but in truth this becomes nothing more than a social club and really has nothing to do with one’s ‘spirituality’…In fact this does not particularly lead to spiritual growth. More time in private prayer, helping others etc does lead to growth. Often many of the activities of evangelicals are more for purposes of recruitment. Or for having a social circle of friends.

Complete, utter nonsense. The evangelicals with whom I’ve been associated are interested in socializing with everyone, because they want ***everyone ***they meet to be introduced to the love, grace and salvation offered by Jesus Christ. Your cracks about emotional support and spirituality (again in scare quotes, because we know it’s not real emotional support and real spirituality) couldn’t be further from the truth, and you must have an awful limited exposure to good evangelicals if you think there’s no real spiritual growth going on there.

Further, what you see as ‘recruitment,’ we regarded as evangelism. You use that word as though evangelicals aren’t interested in more than boosting the membership roles of their churches, and once again, that wasn’t my experience as an evangelical. We were interested in getting people into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, and suggesting otherwise is just an exercise in Catholic spiritual elitism.

What evidence do you have that the activities in which evangelicals participate leads to a neglected personal prayer life? I knew evangelicals who prayed for hours every day, and we had church-wide prayer events throughout the year.

Catholics have always tried to live their lives in the world. Their social lives and contacts were not dominated by just other catholics. There ‘spirituality’ is part of their lives at work, at home or anywhere else they happen to be. Everything they do does not have to be associated with something that sounds ‘religious’ like for example, “bible studies”. Nor do they feel the need to be constantly talking about religion. The idea is to actually live out their faith in the world.

Another paragraph chock-full of misconceptions about evangelical spirituality (again in scare quotes, in case the audience missed it the first time). Evangelicals see their faith as completely integral to their lives, in much the same way as serious Catholics. The fact that they use different expressions doesn’t make it false or inferior.

In fact, evangelicals see their conversations about religion as part of their mission of living out the faith in the world*!*** Catholics might do well to emulate that every once in a while - perhaps more seekers like me would’ve discovered the Church much earlier, and without having to do all the work on my own. Converts (and potential converts) often lament the fact that no Catholic has ever shared the joy of Catholicism with them, which is something I experienced as I discovered it completely on my own.

In fact it used to be the catholic understanding, that constantly going around talking about religion was a good sign that someone was NOT growing spiritually, but instead trying to put on a ‘spiritual’ or ‘religious’ act. See how holy I am and see how much on fire I am for the Lord. It’s almost a form of bragging and far from humility.

Another broadside attack on the spirituality of our separated brethren, whose desire to share the faith with those who don’t know Jesus, and with fellow Christians, is now a sign of spiritual immaturity and lack of growth . It’s most certainly NOT bragging, and NOT putting on a show - it’s sincere, and comes from a deep, loving commitment to Jesus Christ.

The initial joy and enthusiasm of converts is wonderful…but it does need to mature into a less superficial and deeper spirituality.

Ah, I see… so now the joy of my initial conversion to Christ, which took place nearly 10 years ago, needs to fade into something my fellow Catholics regard as more ‘mature.’ Heck, if this is what you consider ‘mature,’ I’ll take immaturity any day.

 

[katy]

It seems to me that very often Catholics seem apologetic about their faith, as tho they are embarrassed about it. I can’t understand that. I am still struck by the beauty of Christ in his Church and would like to talk about it if I wasn’t fairly certain of being thought of as some sort of fanatic. People usually do talk about things that are important to them sometime, somewhere without seeming ashamed about it.

 

[djrakowski]

It seems to me that very often Catholics seem apologetic about their faith, as tho they are embarrassed about it. I can’t understand that. I am still struck by the beauty of Christ in his Church and would like to talk about it if I wasn’t fairly certain of being thought of as some sort of fanatic. People usually do talk about things that are important to them sometime, somewhere without seeming ashamed about it.

Right - like Ss. Peter and John before the Sanhedrin:

Acts 4:16-20 (NIV) - “What are we going to do with these men?” they asked. “Everybody living in Jerusalem knows they have done an outstanding miracle, and we cannot deny it. But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn these men to speak no longer to anyone in this name.” Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John replied, “Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God’s sight to obey you rather than God. For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”

Or like St. Paul in his letter to the Romans:

Romans 1:16 (NIV) - I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

It was impossible to make these guys stop talking about Jesus!

 

[Sr_Sally]

My goodness, is it possible at all to discuss what’s good about Catholicism without launching into a broadside attack against Protestant spirituality (in scare quotes, of course, because we KNOW they can’t do REAL spirituality like us Catholics!)

I didn’t read anywhere near the level of attack in that post that you did. I think there is truth on both sides of the aisle. Certainly some cradle Catholics are just going through the motions. I see it every week in the lives of my CCD students. However, that doesn’t mean all Catholics are like that. And certainly, just because I don’t always want to talk about the Pope’s vestements or even the latest encyclical doesn’t mean I’m not living my spirituality.

On the other side, not every evangelical is truly on fire for God. I know plenty who do indeed use the church potlucks and camping trips as their “country club”. They show up at church to drink the coffee and chat not really to worship. And they also think nothing of not going to church while on vacation or during the summer. In fact, several protestant churches in this area change their service schedules during the summer since they know they will have lower attendances.

However, I don’t want to imply that the lonliness you are feeling is not real. Perhaps the best place to find other like minded converts is within the ranks of the past few years RCIA classes. Your priest should be able to introduce you to those within your parish. Or perhaps you’ll find that there is a group within your diocese who’s interests dovetail with yours.

I highly recommend the Cursillo weekends. Check your diocese website for them. They are 4 day retreats designed to help mature Catholics grow even deeper in their faith. Several protestant groups have developed weekend retreats using the cursillo model, so you may already be familiar with the idea.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Agreed. Just let’s not make it all about coffee in the fellowship hall, k?

 

[mikeledes]

i kept thinking about this thread on the way home, and since i began to seriously understand/practice my faith i have had frantic moments of why the people around me aren’t as excited as i am?? they need to see that what they’re doing is wrong! when are they going to wake up? we need to save their souls!!

i have talked to one priest about this and i have read some information about this and it basically comes down to fr. solanus’s quote that’s in my signature below. we (you, me, and the guy over there; all of us) aren’t going to change anybody, we aren’t going to wake anybody up. that’s God’s job. and he is doing it, one convert, revert, and fired-up cradle at a time.

we need to follow st. monica’s example and pray.

pray for the rest of our lives. we can plant seeds, as the saying goes, but we don’t make them grow.

i have a friend with a very sick son and i was worried that this trial was going to stress her relationship with God. when i talked with her today i found out just the opposite! she said this experience is drawing her closer to God!!! God draws us to him in his own way and in his own time.

and so where do the potlucks and camping trips fit into this? i don’t know? i don’t know the convert mindset. but if it’s something that’s missing for your spiritual comfort then reach out to those like minded catholics, the converts and reverts. i’m not saying close the door on cradles and consider them lost, but target those who know what you are missing. some cradles will join in and then a little more and then a little more.

and remember, we know how this story is going to end. we’ve already read the last chapter of the good book peace

Rome wasn’t built in a day!

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Okay, so what are we - the fired up cradle Catholics, converts, and reverts - doing to address this issue? Any suggestions?

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

I didn’t read anywhere near the level of attack in that post that you did. I think there is truth on both sides of the aisle. Certainly some cradle Catholics are just going through the motions. I see it every week in the lives of my CCD students. However, that doesn’t mean all Catholics are like that. And certainly, just because I don’t always want to talk about the Pope’s vestements or even the latest encyclical doesn’t mean I’m not living my spirituality.

I don’t believe Dan is saying that all Catholics just go through the motions. He’s just expressing a sentiment shared by many converts, reverts, and cradle Catholics - that too many Catholics limit spirituality to going to Mass or a specific time of day when they do their devotions. Outside of the confines of the church, they mention God when they’re taking His name in vain (Oh my God!), when someone sneezes (God Bless You!) or as a response to something good (Thank God!). I’m sure that in your case, you are not like this. And I’m sure Dan’s undestanding of fellowship is not talking about the Bible, encyclicals, etc. every minute of the hour, 24 hours a day. It’s about discussing spirituality and partcipating in spiritual activities outside the confines of the church.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Sr_Sally]

Okay, so what are we - the fired up cradle Catholics, converts, and reverts - doing to address this issue? Any suggestions?

God Bless,
Michael

Since the OP is talking about informal relationships outside of church, I’m not sure there is anything specific we can do other than smile at people and invite our fellow parishners over for dinner occasionally.

If the issue is really having more coffee hours after Mass or potluck dinners, than I guess we fired up cradles, converts, and reverts should organize them!

 

[mikeledes]

Since the OP is talking about informal relationships outside of church, I’m not sure there is anything specific we can do other than smile at people and invite our fellow parishners over for dinner occasionally.

If the issue is really having more coffee hours after Mass or potluck dinners, than I guess we fired up cradles, converts, and reverts should organize them!

I think this is an excellent idea! Few say no to food! We need to accept all Catholics where they are at and hopefully guide them to a deeper understanding of Catholic spirituality. But these events must be injected with spirituality so that they do not degenerate into “Let’s gossip about so and so today.” This would be one way of planting the seeds of good fellowship.

God Bless,
Michael