I'm a good person I don't need God

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Jump4Joy said:
I’ll leave judgment to God.
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This is all any of us can do, but He also expects us to exercise judgment for ourselves.
Jump4Joy said:
Hypothetical situations although interesting drive me nuts.
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They can, but this is the best part of wrestling with moral dilemmas. They force you to apply moral standards in different situations. That is why they help us to develop a well formed conscience!
Jump4Joy said:
I seriously don’t think you can compare a homicidal maniac to a fornicator.
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With all due respect, you are the one who created the comparison. All sin separates us from God.
Jump4Joy said:
They each have different reasons for acting in a manner. There are different degrees of culpability.
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It is possible, but one must never commit a grave evil, even for a good “reason”. Motives may be good, but the end does not justify the means.
Jump4Joy said:
I’m thinking if someone who had sex outside marriage once being condemned to hell or someone who had sex with their fiance before they were wed.
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In both cases, what matters is if they repent of their sins. If a person sins, and persists in sin, and defies God’s commandment, they commit the unforgiveable sin (rejecting the grace of
repentance).
Jump4Joy said:
Perhaps it doesn’t matter if we agree honestly so long as we try to obey.
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Yes, this is always the safest approach. But, if we don’t agree, we should also pray that God will reveal to us His Truth, so that we are eventually able to obey BECAUSE we agree, as opposed to in spite of our disagreement.

When we see things from His point of view, our hearts want to follow His commandments. We obey Him out of love, and the commandments are not burdensome.
 
How dare you judge me. You don’t know what I’d do in that situation, and it’s extremely rude to assume that about me.
 
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Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
How dare you judge me. You don’t know what I’d do in that situation, and it’s extremely rude to assume that about me.
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I know human nature. And human nature demands retributIon. So dismount the high horse and tell me that you are different. That if someone massacred your family and your friends and everyone you knew and their family and friends as well, then if they apologised you would simply forgive them and forego any punishment.
 
If they meant it? I’d probably struggle greatly but I’d forego punishment.
 
How about some form of restitution? Isn’t that what happens with us? God forgives yet we still do penance.
 
Bradskii said:
It is harm. Causing harm for harm’s sake is objectively wrong. Period.
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This is not a rational answer. Indeed, you didn’t give the one single reason I asked. Because pain is only painful for the person that endures the pain. So if a man takes pleasure in harming others, why should he care? You didn’t give a rational reason for that.
Bradskii said:
And you are saying that something cannot be objectively bad if not all people agree that it’s bad (the person harming children thinks it’s ok). That is entirely irrelevant. Otherwise you are doing no more than taking a vote on it.
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The fact that something is objectively evil means indeed that it doesn’t depend on a decision whether this thing is evil or not. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t depend on the perception of some conscious sujbect. Just imagine if no conscious subject would exist. In this case there would be no point in speaking about moral good or evil. Why? Because what is good is only good toward someone. And what is evil is only evil toward someone. For example, torturing a man is evil for this man, not in the sense that he decided it was evil, but because he perceives it as evil (independently from his decision): it is evil toward him. So when I said that what is objectively evil is what is evil for everyone, what I meant by for everyone in this case was toward everyone, and not according to the decision of everyone. More precisely, what I wanted to say was that what is objectively evil is what is evil toward everyone that wants this evil. This is why willingly doing evil can never be better than suffering from evil. However, if if there is no punishment after death, then, certainly, willingly doing evil can often be better than suffering from evil.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
If they meant it? I’d probably struggle greatly but I’d forego punishment.
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Let me get this right. And we’ll use an example. All your family and friends are having a party at your house. And someone who has had an argument with one of your friends has gone out and got himself drunk and gone home to get a small arsenal of weapons.

He breaks down your door and in a drunken rage shoots every single person. Men, women, children, babies. Everyone except you.

After he is caught and he sobers up, he realises what he has done and he ‘apologises’ to you (I put the word in quotes because it seems so monstrously inadequate). So you ‘struggle greatly’ but then tell everyone that he is not to be punished. That he is free to carry on his life while the countless family members of those massacred grieve and try to put their lives back together.

Meantwhile the gunman is down the pub having a couple of cold ones.

The problem is that if you give an answer that is plainly nonsensical from any reasonable point of view then you forego yourself any expectation you might have to have anything else you say treated seriously.
 
Well you see, the thing about your “gotcha” is that God doesn’t accept a weak and insincere “sorry.” If the gunman were to be truly repentant and horrified of what he did, of course I’d forgive him. It’s what Jesus would do. Furthermore, I’m incredibly offended that you continuously apply your moral compass to me and assume that I’m lying simply because you cannot fathom doing what I say I’d do.

As for penance, it’s not required but the reason we do it is for spiritual temperance and guidance to not sin again.
 
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No, sacramental penance is assigned and forgiveness is conditional upon it.
 
No, it’s not. Absolution is given at the end of confession and isn’t “invalidated” if penance is not done.
 
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Jesus said, “Why do you call me good?”. So how does a person mean when they think they are “good”?
 
Yeah. preparation for the “next world” often includes improving people’s lives here and now.
 
I don’t think they’re wasting their time; they just haven’t found the “fullness” of the truth yet.
 
Maybe they just don’t realize that these good traits come from God; otherwise they wouldn’t be loving and compassionate at all.
 
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