I'm a pro choice catholic, and this is why

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Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t there been emergency baptisms of such children in their final moments? 🤷 At least if there is time and the parents’ wishes are known and it wouldn’t interfere with medical procedures . . . seems I’ve heard of it.
I can’t imagine anyone baptizing what they think is a “clump of cells” - and you would have to be a special kind of crazy if you realize that it’s a human being with an eternal soul, but had gone ahead with an abortion anyway.
 
I was utterly disgusted how they would parade signs showing pictures of first trimester fetuses in front of kids and it is disgusting to everyone
If you think a picture of an abortion is disgusting how would you feel being in the same room while this hideous cold-blooded murder of an innocent baby was taking place? This sacrifice to the god of contraception, this false god called “choice” who is in reality the Devil. Abortion itself is what is hideous and disgusting. No abortion = no picture of an abortion. So if you want to stop seeing pictures of abortion stop calling it a “choice”. I know that seeing a picture of abortion is what made me instantly Pro-Life.
 
Unborn children go to heaven, baptized or not. God would not punish them by not allowing them eternal life, especially when human life rejected them.

I dont have the documentation to back that up, but I read it somewhere while Pope John Paull II was still our pope and besides, even if I cant provide any backup, thats just not like God.
Those people probably shouldn’t have shown those graphic pictures. There are other ways to get people to become pro-life other than showing them graphic pictures.

Please allow me to clarify something for you, the Church allows abortion when the life of the mother is in danger.

As for the rape argument, why would you kill an innocent child? That child had nothing to do with the rape. He/she is just an innocent soul caught in the middle. Why would you want to kill him/her?

I don’t mean to be cruel, but a husband and a wife shouldn’t have kids if they cannot financially support the child.

Right above my parish’s door, they is a sign saying “Adoption, not Abortion.” I agree with this. Choose adoption and let the child live. Every child deserves a chance.

The reason why the Church makes excommunication the punishment for abortion is because, when you commit an abortion, you not only kill the child, you prevent its soul from entering heaven for eternity. How can you live with that on your conscience? Just about every day, a child is prevented from entering eternal happiness because of an abortion. The logic is, if you prevent the child from entering heaven, then you shouldn’t go to heaven either.

You should watch your mouth. Some bishops wouldn’t hesitate to deny you the Eucharist because of your beliefs. I know my bishop wouldn’t.
 
Unborn children go to heaven, baptized or not. God would not punish them by not allowing them eternal life, especially when human life rejected them.

I dont have the documentation to back that up, but I read it somewhere while Pope John Paull II was still our pope and besides, even if I cant provide any backup, thats just not like God.
Since baptism is necessary for salvation, they cannot get into heaven. Original sin is something than one cannot be purified of in purgatory. Some theologians believe that they go into a limbo where there is perfect earthly happiness and no suffering. God probably wouldn’t make those innocent babies suffer for all eternity.
 
Rape:
I believe that I may have been a product of rape, perhaps date or acquaintance rape, perhaps stranger rape. I don’t know, and I don’t want to know. I have facts that point to that, but I’ll never know, even though I have met my birthparents (I have no relationship with them).

I am adopted, by wonderful parents. I’m glad my birthmom didn’t abort me; she could have, even back in 1969 (well, 1968…). If it had been legal, I don’t know what she would have done. I think she would have had me anyway, as her only concern when I met her was that I was adopted by Catholics. I have beautiful children, and I believe that I’m supposed to be here.

I didn’t ask God what He thought; I hadn’t had a thought about it in my mind for a long time. That was the knowledge He gave me,… He also made it clear to me that I was supposed to be Catholic. He didn’t tell me everyone was supposed to be Catholic, but He told me I am. However, He didn’t say abortion was wrong for ME; He said it was wrong, period.

So, I’m going to go by what God told me, and what the Church, His chosen place for me, tells us. <3

God bless you; God bless the babies; and God bless those women whose lack of knowledge and strength allow an abortion of their child, and Heaven help the women who know it’s wrong and do it anyway.

Christina
Thank you, Christina, for the beauty you shared with everyone.

May God continue to reach people through your witness. May God bless you and your children, your parents and your birth parents.
 
Rachel126
Trial Membership Join Date: May 29, 2013
Posts: 53
Religion: Catholic

Re: I’m a pro choice catholic, and this is why

Quote:
Originally Posted by april32010
if someone doesn’t want children,they shouldn’t have sex.

So you are against adoption then, really?
There are even sometimes married couples who give a child up for adoption because they genuinely feel that is what is best.
I’m sorry but this kind of attitude is NOT helpful to anyone in the pro-life cause.

I have to agree with april32010.

Sex has become a passtime, an activity, a “sport” among young people. Intercourse is for procreation among married people. During the marriage I am sure sex is a form of loving communication when words are useless, but within the sacrament of marriage. I think young people are losing focus on what sex is really for, to fullfil the vocation of marriage. So, if they abuse sex as a passtime or part of dating (and this is the truth) they want to justify the elimination of the child before it is born. This is all part of Satan’s job. It scares me when young people refuse to see the truth about abortion to supply their physical needs and have a means of eliminating the “accidental life” that is a result of their play.

Yes, its graphic, but so are films of Holocaust and Nazi’s elimination of life they wanted to eliminate too, but we all learned from those Holocaust films, our eyes were opened, and the truth is ugly, but will set you free.
 
Since baptism is necessary for salvation, they cannot get into heaven. Original sin is something than one cannot be purified of in purgatory. Some theologians believe that they go into a limbo where there is perfect earthly happiness and no suffering. God probably wouldn’t make those innocent babies suffer for all eternity.
I don’t think it is our place to dictate what God can and cannot do, especially if it isn’t a logical impossibility.
 
Since baptism is necessary for salvation, they cannot get into heaven. Original sin is something than one cannot be purified of in purgatory. Some theologians believe that they go into a limbo where there is perfect earthly happiness and no suffering. God probably wouldn’t make those innocent babies suffer for all eternity.
The Church teaches that there can be people who were not baptized AND are in heaven.

There are people, who through no fault of their own, do not know Jesus and were not baptized. God’s mercy can still allow these people into His Kingdom.

CCC 1257-1260
Baptism is necessary for salvation for THOSE TO WHOM THE GOSPEL HAS BEEN PROCLAIMED and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.

As for children who died before baptism (including those who died before birth), they, too, can be in Heaven.

CCC 1261

As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rite for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way for salvation for children who have died without Baptism.
 
Since baptism is necessary for salvation, they cannot get into heaven. Original sin is something than one cannot be purified of in purgatory. Some theologians believe that they go into a limbo where there is perfect earthly happiness and no suffering. God probably wouldn’t make those innocent babies suffer for all eternity.
I knew an elderly priest who prayed baptism on all the children in danger of abortion in a spiritual way, under the infinite mercy of God, for only God knew the who and the number. For a man who never had children, I would have liked to have seen all the radiant faces that greeted him on the other side.
 
Unborn children go to heaven, baptized or not. God would not punish them by not allowing them eternal life, especially when human life rejected them.

I dont have the documentation to back that up, but I read it somewhere while Pope John Paull II was still our pope and besides, even if I cant provide any backup, thats just not like God.
Absolutely true, anyone who says otherwise is incorrect. 👍

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I agree totally.
Showing those pictures to children (or in a way where children might see them) is completely incorrect. It’s not justifiable to say “well, it’s reality, so let kids see it.” You wouldn’t let your young child watch a grisly cop drama that showed multiple bloody murders. Even though those types of murders really do happen. It’s still not appropriate to show it to a child.
Rachel126, that is the biggest cop out. It’s not like they held those signs out front of a primary school or something, what are parents doing taking their kids to an abortion facility, ever think of that?

Naïve and Ignorant people need to see the reality of what they support, just like many Germans in and after WW2 needed to see the reality of the death camps.

You certainly wouldn’t be saying that we shouldn’t have images of the death camps during WW2 because children may see such images when showing them to those who deny the holocaust would you?
I don’t think you’re going to like what I think, OP, because I think you’re a fine person to talk about being disgusted.

In what way is it “worship” to take a big bite out of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, believing the lie that “your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad”. (Gen. 3:5) You seem to think you can change right and wrong by argument! Where did you get that idea? How is that a worshipful attitude?

A fetus is not potentially alive, but truly alive. I took biology, you took biology, let’s not mince words or rationalize that you have a license to kill anyone that you believe would have died a natural death, anyway. If you really do worship the same God I do, then presumably you know that you’re not God.

You say, “I would not want to take care of a dog that I don’t want, let alone a child that requires many times more responsibility.” Oy, vey. Why are there more people who would scream if you put a perfectly healthy dog to sleep because you couldn’t take care of it that have no problem with aborting a perfectly healthy child because they don’t want to take care of her? Who equates her own child with a dog, as if even a dog was a commodity that deserves to live in whatever way is convenient for you? Do you know how much painkiller is administered to an aborted fetus? None!! And gosh, if the only person who could keep you alive (your mother, just incidentally) had you killed in her presence because it was too much bother to keep you alive, would you take a lot of consolation in knowing that it was an “extremely difficult decision” for her? Not half so difficult as it’s going to be for you, kiddo! As for the starvation ploy, should we go euthanize all the starving or homeless people in the world, so they don’t have to suffer? Really?

Do you know why people are showing such graphic pictures? Because they’re tired of people rationalizing abortion away as something other than what it is. It is a risky strategy these days, though, because of course it is the anti-abortion picketer who is going to be blamed for the grisly nature of what is going on, not the people who want to have that same picture lived out as it has behind closed doors and out of their sight 50 million times since 1973.

The reason those pictures are upsetting is because they are exactly what “pro-choice” advocates want to deny that they are. If those were pictures of an uncooked beef steak or hearts ready for donation or even a picture of what a smoker’s cancerous lung really looked like, who would be screaming that they are unfit for children to look at? If the Pentagon were doing that to detainees at Guantanamo, would this fellow be screaming that the pictures should be hidden, lest a child see what rationalizing voters and pro-torture advocates want to deny was happening in the name of “preserving our freedoms”? I highly doubt it.

The reason that pro-choice advocates do not want children looking at pictures like that is because they are lying to themselves and lying to their children about what abortion is, and they don’t want to admit it. They are advocating for a “freedom” that is bought at the price of a death, and facing that is more than they want to do. Well, sorry. If that is the price of your “freedoms”, then be willing to let that be known. If you can’t do that, examine yourself for why that is.
👍

Please continue to next post -
 
Continued from above post -
So these graphic pix offend your sensibilities? They do mine as well. But this is what we DO!

In stark reality, these pictures portray exactly what a civilized society is capable of - the same body that deems it a felony to mistreat animals, yet can kill its own young.

**Satan would love for us to divert our eyes from this atrocity - after all, when evil stays hidden it gains strength and is easier to deny. ** No, I would rather everyone look at these pictures - to study them and weep over the carnage…maybe our tears will assuage the anger of God.
Amen 👍

Elie Wiesel -

We must always take sides, neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim, silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.
God bless you; God bless the babies; and God bless those women whose lack of knowledge and strength allow an abortion of their child, and Heaven help the women who know it’s wrong and do it anyway.

Christina
Amen 👍
If you think a picture of an abortion is disgusting how would you feel being in the same room while this hideous cold-blooded murder of an innocent baby was taking place? This sacrifice to the god of contraception, this false god called “choice” who is in reality the Devil. Abortion itself is what is hideous and disgusting. No abortion = no picture of an abortion. So if you want to stop seeing pictures of abortion stop calling it a “choice”. I know that seeing a picture of abortion is what made me instantly Pro-Life.
👍

God bless.

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I don’t think you’re going to like what I think, OP, because I think you’re a fine person to talk about being disgusted.

In what way is it “worship” to take a big bite out of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, believing the lie that “your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad”. (Gen. 3:5) You seem to think you can change right and wrong by argument! Where did you get that idea? How is that a worshipful attitude?

A fetus is not potentially alive, but truly alive. I took biology, you took biology, let’s not mince words or rationalize that you have a license to kill anyone that you believe would have died a natural death, anyway. If you really do worship the same God I do, then presumably you know that you’re not God.

You say, “I would not want to take care of a dog that I don’t want, let alone a child that requires many times more responsibility.” Oy, vey. Why are there more people who would scream if you put a perfectly healthy dog to sleep because you couldn’t take care of it that have no problem with aborting a perfectly healthy child because they don’t want to take care of her? Who equates her own child with a dog, as if even a dog was a commodity that deserves to live in whatever way is convenient for you? Do you know how much painkiller is administered to an aborted fetus? None!! And gosh, if the only person who could keep you alive (your mother, just incidentally) had you killed in her presence because it was too much bother to keep you alive, would you take a lot of consolation in knowing that it was an “extremely difficult decision” for her? Not half so difficult as it’s going to be for you, kiddo! As for the starvation ploy, should we go euthanize all the starving or homeless people in the world, so they don’t have to suffer? Really?

Do you know why people are showing such graphic pictures? Because they’re tired of people rationalizing abortion away as something other than what it is. It is a risky strategy these days, though, because of course it is the anti-abortion picketer who is going to be blamed for the grisly nature of what is going on, not the people who want to have that same picture lived out as it has behind closed doors and out of their sight 50 million times since 1973.

The reason those pictures are upsetting is because they are exactly what “pro-choice” advocates want to deny that they are. If those were pictures of an uncooked beef steak or hearts ready for donation or even a picture of what a smoker’s cancerous lung really looked like, who would be screaming that they are unfit for children to look at? If the Pentagon were doing that to detainees at Guantanamo, would this fellow be screaming that the pictures should be hidden, lest a child see what rationalizing voters and pro-torture advocates want to deny was happening in the name of “preserving our freedoms”? I highly doubt it.

The reason that pro-choice advocates do not want children looking at pictures like that is because they are lying to themselves and lying to their children about what abortion is, and they don’t want to admit it. They are advocating for a “freedom” that is bought at the price of a death, and facing that is more than they want to do. Well, sorry. If that is the price of your “freedoms”, then be willing to let that be known. If you can’t do that, examine yourself for why that is.
:clapping:
 
(1) There are situations in which an abortion could be used to save a mother’s life.
(2) What about rape victims? Should they support a child they don’t want? …
(3) Should I keep a child that I can’t afford, I don’t want to let it starve to death, since there are some parents who simply cannot, no matter what, provide food and shelter for kids.

What do you think?
Sneaglebob - are you still watching this thread - - have you a reply to any of the posts which don’t support your position?

Your “pro-abortion” arguments are listed above, but they seem terribly weak arguments. My thoughts in response are as follows:

(1) I don’t believe what you state is medically true (anymore, if ever). There are cases where an operation on the mother, to save the mother, becomes necessary, and that operation is likely to lead to death of the child. Because that’s not the intent, it is acceptable (and it’s not abortion), so should not be used to confuse the debate.

(2) All sympathy and concern is owed to the rape victim. The child (also a rape victim one could argue) also has a right not to be killed. The mother can offer the child for adoption in these circumstances, but, due to the crime perpetrated against her, is obligated to go through with her pregnancy.

(3) A mother unable to afford to raise her child (less an issue these days given welfare support etc) can offer the child for adoption. Keep in mind that parents with children born already find they “cannot afford to raise them”. I’m sure you are not suggesting they can kill those children too?

As the last point suggests, pro-abortion arguments generally rely on one of or both of the following views:
  • that the unborn child is “less than” a born child - not a real human;
  • that the unborn child is an appendage to, or part of, the mother - and consequently the mother’s rights over her body supersede any right of the “appendage”.
I suggest you think about whether these arguments are persuasive. If you do find them persuasive, then at what point in development of the child would you draw a line and say - “hey, this child has rights - you can’t kill him/her”!
 
The video- I know what you are talking about and have seen it first hand ( I did not watch the video but I have seen it on the sidewalks). I personally do not agree with the use of graphic images. That doesn’t mean that they are automatically wrong – Just the way they are going about it is wrong. I have witnessed first hand pro-choicers cursing and yelling and the works. Does this make them right or wrong? No. What makes abortion wrong is that it’s the killing of innocent human life.

Rape exception - I say no to all exceptions, because I personally know people that were conceived in rape. I cannot look them in the eye and say their life is less valuable then my own. Should someone be punished if their biological father is a criminal?? No… it’s still innocent human life… Keep in mind conception upon rape is less than 2 percent I think was the latest stat I heard. 99 percent of abortions in America are not rape victims.

Not being able to care for child – Adoption the loving option for those situations.

"I have a few rebuttals to other arguments, such as the one that every fetus has a potential for life. Every sperm cell has the ability to make a child once combined with an egg. Is it considered geonicide if millions of sperm cells die? they have potential to create a life. Is a chimera, which when two fertilized cells combine, the result of another child killing the other? “”

A fetus does not have the potential for life, it IS life. — Sperm and a fertilized egg are not the same biolical make-up. One is human life, one is not. Therefore, since sperm is not human life, it is not genocide if millions of sperm cells die…

I recommend talking to a priest… I think it was Pope Francis that said pro-choice politicians should not be taking communion… I would talk to a priest as soon as you can about your trouble with the Church’s stance on abortion.
 
Since baptism is necessary for salvation, they cannot get into heaven. Original sin is something than one cannot be purified of in purgatory. Some theologians believe that they go into a limbo where there is perfect earthly happiness and no suffering. God probably wouldn’t make those innocent babies suffer for all eternity.
Rosemary has provided the relevant catechism teaching to address this.
As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rite for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way for salvation for children who have died without Baptism.
Also worth pointing out, from this same section of the catechism (CCC 1257), is this detail:

“God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments”.

In short, God can do what He wants. He is not constrained by our understanding of the role of baptism and can take these little ones into heaven if that is His will. I fail to understand how it couldn’t be His will, but I won’t presume to declare it on God’s behalf. We can but hope and pray and entrust this matter to God.
 
I agree totally.
Showing those pictures to children (or in a way where children might see them) is completely incorrect. It’s not justifiable to say “well, it’s reality, so let kids see it.” You wouldn’t let your young child watch a grisly cop drama that showed multiple bloody murders. Even though those types of murders really do happen. It’s still not appropriate to show it to a child.
The pictures were not deliberately shown to children but their own parents did expose them to this risk by allowing them to be in a place they should never have been. You are correct that parental obligation dictates that we protect our children, for example, from harmful influences such as TV shows or video games that display inordinate violence and gore. Instead, these parents had their children accompany them to a place of death.
 
:confused:😦
#1 So you are against adoption then, really?
#2 There are even sometimes married couples who give a child up for adoption because they genuinely feel that is what is best.
I’m sorry but this kind of attitude is NOT helpful to anyone in the pro-life cause.

  1. *]don’t put words in my mouth
    *]the pecentage is low if not miniscule,and most abortions are procured by single women.if your single you shouldn’t be having sexual relations
 
I agree totally.
Showing those pictures to children (or in a way where children might see them) is completely incorrect. It’s not justifiable to say “well, it’s reality, so let kids see it.” You wouldn’t let your young child watch a grisly cop drama that showed multiple bloody murders. Even though those types of murders really do happen. It’s still not appropriate to show it to a child.
The US Army forced the townspeople of Dachau and Wiemar to tour the nearby concentration camps shortly after their respective liberations.

Do you feel that the US Army acted in error in exposing the people to the horrors that were being conducted nearby?
 
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