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Joe_5859
Guest
We haven’t heard from the OP in a while. I am curious as to what his thoughts are with regards to some of the posts. Maybe he’s just taking it all in, which is good, too. 
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josh987654321
Guest
The genocide of the unborn (aborted) have claimed more lives than any other genocide in the history of mankind.
I’ll close with this from ccmcmg -
God bless you all, God bless the unborn, God have mercy on those women whose lack of knowledge and strength allow an abortion of their child, and Heaven help those women who know it’s wrong and do it anyway.
Thank you for reading
Josh.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
The teachings of the faith are rather clear on this point. “Pro-choice” is not a valid option. No amount of justification or rationalization will change this.
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SwizzleStick
Guest
I think sometimes people join the forums and make provocative statements with the idea that they might be shocking the Catholics. Then, they get good information and solid support for the Faith and why the Church teaches what She teaches and they end up being the ones who are surprised and maybe even shocked instead. Maybe some take it all in and learn about the Catholic Church and Catholic Faith. If that is the outcome, that is great indeed!We haven’t heard from the OP in a while. I am curious as to what his thoughts are with regards to some of the posts. Maybe he’s just taking it all in, which is good, too.
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PeterGStanley
Guest
If your pro-choice your not Catholic - because it is not what the church teaches or we believe.
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universityprof
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That includes state sactioned homicide too “capital punnishment.”
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universityprof
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That’s not for you to judge.
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jmcrae
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That is also true - except in cases where even locking the criminal up would still continue to endanger human life, or in situations where it isn’t feasible to lock him up (ie: a nomadic culture, or when the jails are full).
In all cases the death penalty is not about punishing the criminal or taking revenge on him, but about protecting society from him - if it is the only way to keep people safe, then it is allowed.
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oldcatholicguy
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A guy walks up to me chowing down on a big fat bacon cheeseburger and slurping on a milkshake. After popping a couple of fries (fried in animal fat) into his mouth he proudly tells me that he’s a vegan. You’re telling me that I’m judging him by telling him he isn’t a vegan because vegans don’t believe in eating any animal products (cheese, milk, bacon, beef, animal fat)? Got it.
It’s not my place to point out the obvious disconnect between his behavior and his claim (bacon cheeseburger vs. vegan, pro-choice vs Catholic teachings); but it is your place to judge that my doing so is me judging him. Thanks.
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oldcatholicguy
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There is a rather large difference between abortion and capital punishment. One is never moral, the other can be. Guess which one is never moral.
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GenerationHV
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She is a teenager, struggling in an increasingly secular society, looking for help on CAF.
Saying she is not Catholic really is not helpful.
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JordanRogers
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The bible teaches you to not repay evil with evil. In the case of being raped and becoming pregnant (which is not impossible but highly unlikely), do you think God would want you to repay the evil that caused conception with more evil? I don’t fear for the souls of aborted children because it is my belief that they are saved. I do however, fear for the souls of their mothers and I pray that they change their hearts and become truly repentant.
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josh987654321
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Please read what I have below in reply to “GenerationHV”This is what Pope Benedict XVI said -
Pope Benedict XVI -
Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. There may be legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not… with regard to abortion and euthanasia.
Also this is what Pope John Paul II said -
Pope John Paul II -
"You are called to stand up for life!..You are called to work and pray against abortion……….”
Fantastic analogyA guy walks up to me chowing down on a big fat bacon cheeseburger and slurping on a milkshake. After popping a couple of fries (fried in animal fat) into his mouth he proudly tells me that he’s a vegan. You’re telling me that I’m judging him by telling him he isn’t a vegan because vegans don’t believe in eating any animal products (cheese, milk, bacon, beef, animal fat)? Got it.
I assume she is a teenager, struggling in an increasingly secular society, however to embrace that secular societies morals and than call yourself a Catholic, isn’t quite accurate.
She is a teenager, struggling in an increasingly secular society, looking for help on CAF.
Saying she is not Catholic really is not helpful.
I wouldn’t say she isn’t a Catholic, but as Oldcatholicguy said, it’s like someone eating meat and than saying that they are still vegetarian, they may not have realised that they just eat meat and maybe they still want to be a vegetarian. But the fact remains that the food they are eating is from an animal, the question is, are they going to stop eating it after others have pointed this fact out to them, or are they going to continue eating it and still call themselves vegetarian?
There is no shame in believing a lie until you learn the truth.
Abortion is a very serious issue, those who advocate it ought to be informed because the horrific ramifications of advocating Abortion if they are wrong (which they clearly are) is huge.
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
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GenerationHV
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Pro choice is such a loaded term. If you read what she says she thinks laws should not make it illegal in every case. That’s on the light end of the pro choice spectrum and some would argue a part of the pro life spectrum.
This is what Pope Benedict XVI said -
Pope Benedict XVI -
Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. There may be legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not… with regard to abortion and euthanasia.
Also this is what Pope John Paul II said -
Pope John Paul II -
"You are called to stand up for life!..You are called to work and pray against abortion……….”
Fantastic example
I assume she is a teenager, struggling in an increasingly secular society, however to embrace that secular societies morals and than call yourself a Catholic, isn’t quite accurate.
I wouldn’t say she isn’t a Catholic, but as Oldcatholicguy said, it’s like someone eating meat and than saying that they are still vegetarian, they may not have realised that they just eat meat and maybe they still want to be a vegetarian. But the fact remains that the food they are eating is from an animal, the question is, are they going to stop eating it after others have pointed this fact out to them, or are they going to continue eating it and still call themselves vegetarian?
There is no shame in believing a lie until you learn the truth.
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
I am pro life and I pray and vote to end abortion.
I can remember being a teenage girl and struggling with these terms in terms of politics, identity within a community and in terms of church teaching. I even went through a pro choice stage. They were just thoughts or temptations and thankfully I turned out ok.
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josh987654321
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It is because abortion is a very serious issue, those who advocate abortion ought to be informed or find out for sure whether or not a child in a mothers womb is a life or not because the horrific ramifications of advocating or having an Abortion if they are wrong (which they clearly are) is huge, it is just not a minor mistake to brush over.
Well there is no shame in believing a lie until you learn the truth.
However to ignorantly continue to advocate abortion and not seek the truth is wrong, Abortion is one of those issues that people must make an informed decision on, because like I said the ramifications of making the incorrect decision on it (advocating it) are huge.
God Bless You.
Me too.
There is no shame in believing a lie until you learn the truth and it’s important that everyone seeks the truth on Abortion because if they advocate it and they are wrong (which they are) than like I said several times before the ramifications are just too large.
So although, I wouldn’t disown her from Catholicism, I hope some of this stuff will sink in and maybe scare her into hopefully waking up to the reality of Abortion, because this is not just some minor issue that the Church is fine with disagreement on.
I like most what Pope Francis said on the issue -
Pope Francis -
The pregnant woman doesn’t carry a toothbrush in her womb, nor a tumor. Science teaches that from the moment of conception, the new being has all the genetic code. It’s impressive. It’s not, therefore, a religious question but clearly a moral one, based on science.
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
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GenerationHV
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Re: cheeseburger analogy
Having an abortion, taking someone to get an abortion , or performing an abortion while calling themselves Catholic would be more equatable with your analogy.
In her case shes saying she is a vegetarian while saying maybe other people should be allowed to eat fish or eggs but not red meat.
Not making light of the pro choice movement ( which I believe is dreadful) just saying her thoughts and feelings and " stance" do not equate to the sin of abortion.
Having an abortion, taking someone to get an abortion , or performing an abortion while calling themselves Catholic would be more equatable with your analogy.
In her case shes saying she is a vegetarian while saying maybe other people should be allowed to eat fish or eggs but not red meat.
Not making light of the pro choice movement ( which I believe is dreadful) just saying her thoughts and feelings and " stance" do not equate to the sin of abortion.
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Catholic80
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Why when you looked at the pictures of abortion did you get angry?
I agree that we shouldn’t parade pictures of abortion about everywhere, especially where young children can see them, but, is it no different than seeing pictures from the Holocaust or other human atrocities?
Yes, these pictures are disturbing, and I agree that discretion needs to be used when showing them. But they are disturbing because, well, they are disturbing. That’s exactly what is happening to aborted babies, and people still claim that it’s “not human” and “just a blob of tissue” when it’s a real, living, human being.
But, if you are getting angry at seeing them, perhaps you are experiencing an inner conflict… you see it’s a baby, but you still want to justify it. There can be no peace while denying the truth.
If abortion is wrong, then why does rape make abortion okay? We’ve heard this a million times, that two wrongs don’t make a right. They don’t, and they never do. We can’t solve evil with evil. And yes, no matter how unjust rape is and the consequences from rape, that doesn’t justify another grave evil. And surprisingly, we talk more about the injustice of carrying a child conceived from rape (which is less than 0.5% of all abortions) and use this as an excuse for the 99% of all other abortions which happen to perfectly healthy children. - that’s one child every 20 seconds in the U.S. alone.
As for medical reasons: Removing the child for medical reasons, such as an ectopic pregnancy** is not an abortion.** The intent is not to kill the child, but to remove the child from harm. The tragic result is the death of the child, but it is important the WAY in which the child is removed.
A morally acceptable surgery for an ectopic pregnancy removes the child from the fallopian tubes, and the child dies a natural death as a result. The child cannot survive inside the mother and therefore must be taken out. But, the very important distinction and what makes one procedure and abortion and the other not, is the way in which it is handled. One treats the child with dignity and allows it to die with dignity, one intentionally destroys that child’s life without regards to his/her dignity.
The problem with a “medically necessary” abortion is a woman can say, “the idea of having a baby is making me depressed” and she can abort her baby, even at 9 months for “medical reasons.” No joke. It has happened many, many times. In fact, last year, there was a case where a husband was distraught because his wife aborted theier child because she “couldn’t stand the morning sickness anymore.” There was nothing wrong with the pregnancy, nothing wrong with the mother or the baby. No health threat. Morning sickness is often a sign that things are going normally. But, she didn’t like throwing up, and so she killed her own child.
We can look at a pregnant mother who is in a desperate situation and sympathize completely. We should try everything in our power to help her. But abortion will not help her. Abortion harms women!
Here are some stories from women who have experienced abortion:
hopeafterabortion.com/
postabortionwalk.blogspot.com/2012/10/get-on-with-it-already_9.html
Ending a pregnancy ends a human life. We all know this, even if we don’t want to admit it.
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josh987654321
Guest
I disagree.
Abortion is a serious issue, it’s not just some slight misunderstanding that the Church is content with. It is a grave evil of moral corruption.
Would you say the same for a Nazi who claimed that the Jew’s were less than human?
True, they don’t equate to the sin of Abortion.
Just like me saying “I think we should respect peoples rights to murder one another” and than saying “but that is not equivalent to murder because I am not murdering anyone.”
What would you think of that?
I don’t know what to think of Catholics who have a pro-choice attitude for abortion, If they are going to knowingly support abortion, something in which our church condemns, and than claim that they belong to the same church, what are we to think of that?
Thank you for reading
Josh
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Cojuanco
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Leavibg aside the tactics of prolife protesters (which is a prudential decision), one ought to examine if they have a point.
In the case of life of the mother, there does not seem to be such a situation where another option cannot be conducted, one that doesn’t involve killing someone. Even those cases used by the pro-abortionists to bolster their case at a second glance did not need an abortion, merely effective and competent doctors.
In the case of rape victims, everyone can agree that what the rapist did was wrong. But we now deal with two lives - that of the mother and that of the child. Should we kill a kid because his father was a right bastard? It’s not his fault his father is a criminal. A child is not a dog, as a human it is worth so much more.
As for poor families, first, there is in many countries adoption, and being wards of the state. Nevertheless, it is incumbent on the private and private sector that we ought to find the best possible way of helping mothers provide for their children.
You are wrong that the fetus has a potential for life. It is its own distinct person from the moment of conception. Sperm and unfertilized egg cells are, of course, not a human being.
By the way, I think you are a Catholic. But a badly informed one. Nothing to do with the fact you are a teenager - I’m not that much older than you probably.
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universityprof
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Yes, but in 2013, the age of supermax prisons, that argument is not relevant anymore. So let’s not be hypocritical here.
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