I'm afraid of Purgatory

[water]

When I said I’m not afraid of purgatory it doesn’t mean I’m necessarily prideful. I’m not looking to go there to show every1 how tuff I am. I desire heaven but my soul along with many others will probably need to be cleansed. What I am looking forward to is completing that journey with the help of God.

I am sorry, stringbeanduck. My post wasn’t a direct response to your post. Nonetheless, my post did not imply that all who say he is not afraid of purgatory is prideful; I only said that it might come from the 2 thoughts (there are other thought and in this case, you said it wasn’t the two). By saying what I said, I also implied to tell the original poster that it is ok to be afraid of it with a right reason and knowledge.

 

[teadough]

Judas was DEAD… not in a holding tank waiting for a second chance. It does not work that way.

The phrase was what in **ll… meaning what is it about Judas or any soul in hell that is misunderstood in your story??

Again… there is no “second time around”

You might read the words of JPII as to “where” purgatory is

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

or consider Jesus’ own words… “…better if he had never been born…”

Even I know the CCC says the Catholic Church does not say if Judas went to hell and I am not a “struggling Apologist”

 

[MrS]

I am going to say prayers for you today in my rosary.

Thanks. Since I am still alive, I can certainly use it.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I am sorry, stringbeanduck. My post wasn’t a direct response to your post. Nonetheless, my post did not imply that all who say he is not afraid of purgatory is prideful; I only said that it might come from the 2 thoughts (there are other thought and in this case, you said it wasn’t the two). By saying what I said, I also implied to tell the original poster that it is ok to be afraid of it with a right reason and knowledge.

That’s ok. I overreacted a bit. I know your not aiming your post at me. Your right and I agree it is our goal to reach heaven. Whether your afraid or not doesn’t matter. As long as we rely on God and trust in Him, that is the key.

 

[Nancyannheath]

Thanks. Since I am still alive, I can certainly use it.

MrS, can we please start fresh. First, I didnt mean to beat a dead horse here, I just want to make peace. Even we should not judge Judas. I was not referring to his soul being in hell. To say he deserved to be in hell would be judging his sins, and we arent supposed to do that. The story was about being sorry for your sins, and I believe the “pit” was purgatory for Judas.

Anyone reading this, I apologize for any misunderstanding or confusion. And I am not guilty of any heretic actions Markstorm, so please dont think so. Some are not gifted with proper vocabulary to relay the clear message and it seems no one here picked up on the point of the Ash Wednesday sermon the way we received it when our priest gave the sermon. Did anyone out there recognize (and this is all figuratively speaking because it didnt really happen, it was just a story) that by bringing Judas back to the hour before he betrayed Jesus, Jesus forgave Judas by turning the clock prior to his willful sin. As if THE SIN NEVER HAPPENED? Because when you are forgiven, you are forgiven. Am I being a heretic by believing that after serving time in purgatory, you wont be forgiven completely? and that purgatory (is a state of soul, not a place) per PJPII ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM#Purgatory.

And please, all reading, this is in a gentle, kind, soft indoor voice I am typing, not in anger, frustration or negative tones.

 

[Markstorm]

Anyone reading this, I apologize for any misunderstanding or confusion. And I am not guilty of any heretic actions Markstorm, so please dont think so.

Denying the existence of Purgatory and claiming that it is simply our life on earth is heresy. It is not your “actions” that are heretical but the belief that you proposed.

 

[Nancyannheath]

Denying the existence of Purgatory and claiming that it is simply our life on earth is heresy. It is not your “actions” that are heretical but the belief that you proposed.

Then I completely misinterpreted our beloved PJPII and I quote:

“Purgatory is not a place but a condition of existence”

I have not seen my Chatecism book for about 50 years, so I will go and find one, unless you can point to an on-line version, help out an old Catholic here as being on a computer is not an easy thing for me to do. I also mentioned my vocabulary was not polished either. What I am trying to say is that here on earth, trials of life can sometimes be Pennance and feels like Purgatory when you are severely ill. I didnt say Purgatory is only here on earth. Since I believed it was a condition of existence, that could mean many things. Herecy is a pretty harsh call. Just say prayers for me that I find out what I need to brush up and be corrected. I will pray for my own guidance as well.

thanks for your patience.

 

[markadm]

Then I completely misinterpreted our beloved PJPII and I quote:

“Purgatory is not a place but a condition of existence”

I think he was being metaphorical, meaning that we should not look at it as simply a place, but be more concerned about how we will be there, and why we will be there.

I do not believe that Pope John Paul II would go against the Council of Trent, which decreed:

Since the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has, following the sacred writings and the ancient tradition of the Fathers, taught in sacred councils and very recently in this ecumenical council that there is a purgatory, and that the souls there detained are aided by the suffrages of the faithful and chiefly by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar, the holy council commands the bishops that they strive diligently to the end that the sound doctrine of purgatory, transmitted by the Fathers and sacred councils, be believed and maintained by the faithful of Christ, and to be everywhere taught and preached.

…If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.

 

[water]

Don’t forget that while one is being in Purgatory, he yearns for God but at the same time he is also very joyful knowing that he will be forever with God. His happiness is the total love for God and for us.

 

[Markstorm]

Then I completely misinterpreted our beloved PJPII

Correct.

Since I believed it was a condition of existence, that could mean many things. Herecy is a pretty harsh call. Just say prayers for me that I find out what I need to brush up and be corrected. I will pray for my own guidance as well.

thanks for your patience.

A heretical view is simply in error and against the teaching of the Church. That’s all it means. Now you know otherwise, so as they say on the street, it’s all good.

I’m sorry, perhaps I was a bit harsh. I didn’t expect you to actually stand corrected - usually people are more obstinate.

 

[Nancyannheath]

…If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.

Can you please explain this in words for someone who finished the 9th grade to understand?

Peace

 

[markadm]

The Council is saying that just because God has forgiven us we should not think we are not guilty, and that we will still undergo punishment for a while (i.e. ‘temporal’). It then says that this punishment will be served either here or in purgatory, and that anyone who thinks they can bypass this and go straight to Heaven is excommunicated*.

• • well, kind of. ‘Anathema’ is a flavour of excommunication/interdict/censure/casting out.

 

[Markstorm]

…If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.

Through the Sacrament of Reconciliation, we are forgiven of mortal sins and so no longer pay the “debt of eternal punishment”, i.e. Hell. However, there are some who would say that this forgiveness goes further, that “temporal punishment” is also remitted. The Council that anyone who says this has removed himself from the faith (declared anathema, or excommunicated).

Furthermore, the temporal punishment is to be given “either in this world or in purgatory”. Thus, even though suffering in this world can be a form of penance, any punishment that “remains to be discharged” is not dealt out in this world but in Purgatory.

 

[Della]

markadm;3201226:

…If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.

Can you please explain this in words for someone who finished the 9th grade to understand?

Peace

It means that souls that died having saving grace still must pay the debt of “temporal punishment”. Temporal punishment is our paying for the damage of our sins–within the Church, ourselves, and others. It’s like the boy who breaks a window with a baseball. The owner of the window may forgive him, but there’s still the broken window to be fixed. So, who should pay for it? The boy who broke it. Just so, we cannot enter the joys of heaven until we have paid for all the broken windows we have in our lives. I hope that helps.

 

[Nancyannheath]

The Council is saying that just because God has forgiven us we should not think we are not guilty, and that we will still undergo punishment for a while (i.e. ‘temporal’). It then says that this punishment will be served either here or in purgatory, and that anyone who thinks they can bypass this and go straight to Heaven is excommunicated*.

• • well, kind of. ‘Anathema’ is a flavour of excommunication/interdict/censure/casting out.

Thank YOU.

 

[Markstorm]

The Council is saying that just because God has forgiven us we should not think we are not guilty, and that we will still undergo punishment for a while (i.e. ‘temporal’). It then says that this punishment will be served either here or in purgatory, and that anyone who thinks they can bypass this and go straight to Heaven is excommunicated*.

• • well, kind of. ‘Anathema’ is a flavour of excommunication/interdict/censure/casting out.

Yup. The doctrine is straight from Trent and cannot ever be denied.