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Luvtosew
Guest
OP,
I suggest you go and speak with your Priest about this so you are not getting false information concerning this matter.
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I suggest you go and speak with your Priest about this so you are not getting false information concerning this matter.
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Luvtosew
Guest
I don’t partake in these debates anymore. those of carnal mind will think carnally and you can write as large as you want, it matters not to me, what matters is a person receiving false information concerning salvation issues.
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mcrow
Guest
This is not false information, it’s a pretty clear teaching of the church. That’s why it is generally speaking correct to say those that knowingly reject the teachings of the church and/or the sacraments do go to hell. As always there are exceptions and we can’t know the fate of any individual.OP,
I suggest you go and speak with your Priest about this so you are not getting false information concerning this matter.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
mcrow, with all due respect since I understand that you are trying to follow the catechism to the best of your knowledge, it is written somewhere in the catechism that it is possible for a non catholic to be saved… only that it would be difficult. And not to be snarky, but I know a lot of people who receive sacraments who don’t SEEM like they’d have a hope of going to heaven due to their lifestyle choices. Its more than just The Sacraments… and faith is more than just the catechism.
Also…what about all those Catholics whom at some time in their past (Chinese, Japanese, Native American, world explorers… etc.) had to go without? If Jesus is all-good, then I do believe that we have to believe that Jesus judges rightly to the most merciful extent. I’m certain there are those Protestants whom if they really knew and understood, they would have became Catholics. Perhaps God used them where they were (in the Protestant Church) to help guide others (non catholics) away from sin… for everyone’s sake -kind of like a safety net thing. For that matter, I’m glad they were there.
I also want to you to take in account there are those who cannot eat gluten. (And it was at one time that was the only species available to receive for the laity.) Are they completely hopeless, because they couldn’t receive? (Speaking of terms in the past that is and about those to whom consumption of the gluten was truly deadly.)
Here’s a quote to remember: Hope means hoping when things are hopeless, or it is no virtue at all…As long as matters are really hopeful, hope is mere flattery or platitude; it is only when everything is hopeless that hope begins to be a strength. -Gilbert Keith G. K. Chesterton.
God is TOO BIG for us to know whose going to heaven or hell. We just need to take His warning seriously, and help lead others to understand and believe in Him. That’s it. Everything else in an attempt to fit ourselves in God’s role… yikes!
To the OP, just keep praying. It may be by your example God will lead them to Him. But just keep to God and follow Him. It will be rough at times. I was and still am amazed at how much my family HATES it when I do something I know to be God’s Will (His commands). Quite literally they just explode into something ugly and attack me. Its hard not to want to retaliate and its hard to make sense of it and get enough courage to continuously do what I know I ought. You just have to accept, they don’t see it AND also realize you don’t see everything too. It frankly scares me too… I care about them lots… but this is where faith comes in. One won’t do much good if they forsake God for people, but with God as your friend, how could He refuse the one who loves Him so much? Keep loving God the best you can then. Don’t worry so much either if you fail at times…l… just keep going back to Him. Jesus Christ is all we have after all. Lean on Him! It pleases God when we put our faith in Him.
Romans 8:28
New International Version (NIV)
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good(A) of those who love him, who[a] have been called(B) according to his purpose.(C)
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YoungCatholic86
Guest
Please know I am not writing with the intention of being mean. I was highlighting it so that you could see it right away.
God said that if we love Him, we must keep His commandments. Christ said He is the new manna/bread. He said we must eat the bread He offers during the last supper.
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Luvtosew
Guest
Show me from the CCC where it says one needs to receive the Eucharist to obtain salvation. Better yet show me from the bible where Jesus says one needs to partake of the Lords Supper to obtain Salvation. (Not JOHN 6 as that does not pertain to the Last Supper).
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mcrow
Guest
You are not Catholic so it’s no surprise that you don’t believe the same things we do. If you know it’s a fundamental disagreement that you know you are not going to see eye to ey with us on then why bother posting? The sacraments are non-negotiable and advising the OP to go his priest to refute that is likely going to fail.
The priest will likely say something similar to what’s being said here, we don’t know for sure who will or will not go to heaven or hell but we know that denying the church and the sacraments are without a doubt mortal sins and mortal sins are not compatible with heaven.
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Elizium23
Guest
I also think it is disingenuous of you to say “show me in the Bible… EXCEPT where it says this in the Bible”. Either you believe in the Bible or you don’t. I also think it is disingenuous of you to say “I don’t partake in these debates anymore” and then partake in the debate. Who are we to believe? The firm and eternal teaching of the Church, or an anonymous person on the Internet who is acting hypocritical?
The Eucharist is not just “The Lord’s Supper” - this is a Protestant invention. It is a holy sacrifice, an eternal communion with the saints and with God, it is the miraculous manna from Heaven which God sent to the wandering Jews in the wilderness. It feeds us spiritually and it protects us from all sin. What is more salvific than protection from sin?
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YoungCatholic86
Guest
Show me where in the Bible it says that all we need is faith alone in God. Satan himself believes in the one true God. Something has to distinguish us from the father of lies and hatred and that thing that distinguishes us from Satan is God’s commandments. John 6 said to eat His flesh and at the Last Supper, Jesus said to “take and eat, for this IS my body and this IS my blood.” He did not say this IS LIKE. Finally, tell me where it says everything needs to be found in the Bible for it to be true. The Bible’s purpose is to show God’s relationship with mankind. Look at the Didache and at what the early Church Fathers said about the Eucharist. I believe it was St. Irenaeus who said to be wary of the heretics who denied the true presence.
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Luvtosew
Guest
Yes I am Catholic but if the Eucharist is necessary for salvation then why does the Church make it madatory to engage only once a year in communion, taking the Eucharist is not necessay for salvation and that is the quest. posted by the OP, nor will you find anything in he CCC or bible that says the Lords supper is necessary for salvation.
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mcrow
Guest
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YoungCatholic86
Guest
Why make it mandatory at all if it was not important? By the way, you still have not answered to my Bible quotes or my questions so, correct me if I am wrong for I do NOT mean this in an offensive way, is it safe to assume you do not have an answer? Also, St. Paul states that when we partake of the Eucharist, we become part of Christ’s body, experience His suffering, and He remains in us as we remain in Him. How can once be saved apart from God?
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Elizium23
Guest
newadvent.org/cathen/07402a.htm
For those who can receive the Eucharist frequently and worthily, it is a great blessing upon us, that we are fed by His Word in the liturgy as well as by His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Sacrament. I cannot see how anyone would reject Him when He offers Himself so readily to us.
The precept to receive Holy Communion once per year is an absolute bare minimum, given in the wisdom of the Church for her children who cannot avail themselves of the holy Sacrament every day like many of us in urban settings. Imagine those in a leper colony without the likes of Fr. Damien. Perhaps they are visited by a priest every six months. They do not have an obligation for Sunday Mass when there is none to attend! They would be very grateful to receive Holy Eucharist twice a year when it is available, and I can assure you that the Lord provides for these graces to strengthen them throughout the rest of the year.
For those who can receive the Eucharist frequently and worthily, it is a great blessing upon us, that we are fed by His Word in the liturgy as well as by His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Sacrament. I cannot see how anyone would reject Him when He offers Himself so readily to us.
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constantconvert
Guest
They are not going to hell because they are not Catholic. Everyone gets to heaven in the same way. Baptism, faith in Christ, living a holy life. Not all Catholics are going to Heaven, not all protestants are going to hell. Praying for you and your family right now.
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mcrow
Guest
Exactly, it’s not because they are not Catholic it is because of what they are not getting because they are not Catholic. And of course there protestants, atheists,muslims and catholics alike go to hell.
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Luvtosew
Guest
No of course you didn’t offend me , we just are of different opinion. Of course the Lords Supper is important but as you might be aware many Protestant churches have the Lords Supper as well, but its not an issue of salvation.Dont get me wrong I believe in the Lords Supper. That is what the OP asked. Also it is not necessary for a Christian to be a RC to be saved either , another quest. asked by the Op worried about his family. If it were necessary for all Christians to be RC to have salvation then all RC should be assured of salvation and we know thats not true. Bible quotes:
1.John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
2.Rom. 3:22, “even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction.”
3.Rom. 3:24, “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;”
4.Rom. 3:26, “for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.”
5.Rom. 3:28-30, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.”
6.Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”
7.Rom. 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”
8.Rom. 4:11, “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,”
9.Rom. 4:16, “Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.”
10.Rom. 5:1, “therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,”
11.Rom. 5:9, “Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.”
12.Rom. 9:30, “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith.”
13.Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
14.Rom. 10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
15.Rom. 10:9-10, “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
16.Rom. 11:6, “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”
17.Gal. 2:16, “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.”
18.Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
19.Gal.3:5-6, “Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”
20.Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations shall be blessed in you.”
21.Gal. 3:14, “in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
22.Gal. 3:22, “But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.”
23.Gal. 3:24, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.”
24.Eph. 1:13, “In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.”
25.Eph. 2:8, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.”
26.Phil. 3:9, “and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”
27.1 Tim. 1:16, “And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.”
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agnes_therese
Guest
Don’t hold your breath for an answer, hon. The person you’re addressing has a habit of presenting personal opinion as “fact,” and then leaving the discussion.
Anonymousdollz, you really should discuss this with your priest, so you will be at peace. And if this thread has raised any doubts in your mind about the Eucharist, discuss that with him, also.
Welcome home!
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Luvtosew
Guest
Excuse me, I think I responded. You must have me confused with someone else.
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mcrow
Guest
How about answering my post where I show proof that the sacraments are required for salvation?
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Lancer
Guest
First…we don’t know…only God knows the graces, opportunities, the heart of a person who has wilfully refused Him…His Mercy…His offer.
What we do know is that there is a “hell” and that it is not empty:
What we do know is that there is a “hell” and that it is not empty:
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