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Eliza10
Guest
Its an interesting interpretation, and a thoughtful one. Nice to contemplate. But it leaves me wondering who said it? Based on what? A vision? Or what?
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Eliza10
Guest
To contemplate seeing God is interesting. We have scripture to give us some hints to aid our imagination. We know we will die if we see the face of God, so, we can only wonder.
I love how in the scripture that we are discussing in this thread, Moses presses God about wanting to see His face. We know God is love, and certainly Moses knew that love immediately, and loved Him *more, *and I think that trust in that great love made Moses bold enough to ask for more. Obviously a loving God does not say, “You impudent person! Stop pestering!” Instead, Moses must have known that God would certainly want please him if he asked, so, he asked. And we know God could not, and that He explained, but it looks as if God, the Loving Father, endeavored to please Moses’ request, so He did by showing him something of himself. So loving.
There are mystics*, included Blesseds, that have seen Jesus (and actually some contemporaries of Jesus, descriptions of Him from that time as well - you can Google “physical descriptions of Jesus”) and Mary, apostles, and others. But no credible mystic has ever reported seeing God’s face (or his back side), so its a good guess that Moses was the only highly favored one!
We know that Moses heard Gods voice, and carried on conversations with Him. Do you ever wonder what God’s voice is like? Well there is one mystic I know of that says she has heard the voice of God and described it, and I would like to share that description, for edification, for contemplation, or for the curious, HERE it is. (To get right to the description of the voice, scroll past the Table of Contents, past the Introduction, to where the real page numbers begin: page 3).
*Of course there are tons of fake mystics, people with imaginations, some with good intentions who are confused about the origins of their visions, some who purposely make things up for the attention, etc. I think there are a variety of reasons for fake visions and false mystics. And like the first reason I mentioned, not all fake visions come from people of ill will or from dishonest minds.
One should not just believe anyone who says they are a mystic; one should be wary. I won’t make any further comments on this that I shared in this post, since this forum is not the place for discussion or debate of private revelation, and anyway, I have nothing to add. It speaks for itself, and one can put any amount of faith or no faith in it as one wants.
All the work at the link are printed with permission of her local Bishop (which is proper form for this sort of thing) and in addition all these works are all submitted to the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for formal examination.
(That is not our Church saying its true, but its an solid indicator its been thoroughly examined and nothing is yet found that conflicts with our Catholic faith.)
I love how in the scripture that we are discussing in this thread, Moses presses God about wanting to see His face. We know God is love, and certainly Moses knew that love immediately, and loved Him *more, *and I think that trust in that great love made Moses bold enough to ask for more. Obviously a loving God does not say, “You impudent person! Stop pestering!” Instead, Moses must have known that God would certainly want please him if he asked, so, he asked. And we know God could not, and that He explained, but it looks as if God, the Loving Father, endeavored to please Moses’ request, so He did by showing him something of himself. So loving.
There are mystics*, included Blesseds, that have seen Jesus (and actually some contemporaries of Jesus, descriptions of Him from that time as well - you can Google “physical descriptions of Jesus”) and Mary, apostles, and others. But no credible mystic has ever reported seeing God’s face (or his back side), so its a good guess that Moses was the only highly favored one!
We know that Moses heard Gods voice, and carried on conversations with Him. Do you ever wonder what God’s voice is like? Well there is one mystic I know of that says she has heard the voice of God and described it, and I would like to share that description, for edification, for contemplation, or for the curious, HERE it is. (To get right to the description of the voice, scroll past the Table of Contents, past the Introduction, to where the real page numbers begin: page 3).
*Of course there are tons of fake mystics, people with imaginations, some with good intentions who are confused about the origins of their visions, some who purposely make things up for the attention, etc. I think there are a variety of reasons for fake visions and false mystics. And like the first reason I mentioned, not all fake visions come from people of ill will or from dishonest minds.
One should not just believe anyone who says they are a mystic; one should be wary. I won’t make any further comments on this that I shared in this post, since this forum is not the place for discussion or debate of private revelation, and anyway, I have nothing to add. It speaks for itself, and one can put any amount of faith or no faith in it as one wants.
All the work at the link are printed with permission of her local Bishop (which is proper form for this sort of thing) and in addition all these works are all submitted to the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for formal examination.
(That is not our Church saying its true, but its an solid indicator its been thoroughly examined and nothing is yet found that conflicts with our Catholic faith.)
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frangiuliano115
Guest
“Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they shall see God.”
Mathew 5:8
See Jeremiah 4:14 / 24:7 / 31;33b
Ezekiel 36:26
1 Timothy 1:5
Being pure in heart means decisions, desires, thoughts and intentions of the will are not stained by sin and the will wants to please God.
From here flow the good: Acts of love, acts of mercy, desire for justice.
See Mathew 15:18
What comes out of a man’s mouth, comes from the heart.
The pure in heart will see God after, but also now - in all events and circumstances of life.
The pharisees showed outside purity but their heart was corrup. They washed according to the Law and expected to see God.
Jesus said the heart must be clean and pure from ugly desires to see God.
To “see God” in Hebrew means:
To possess God
To enjoy God’s happiness = God is happy with me.
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Sacred_Heart_1
Guest
The pure of heart may see God but not necessarily in this lifetime like Abraham and Moses seen. The Lord reveals himself to whom he will. If it is the will of God then I will see him.
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Gorgias
Guest
You’re talking about Jesus the incarnate Son of God? He didn’t exist at that point in time.
Don’t get me wrong – the 2nd person of God (the Logos) – existed always. But, His incarnation as a man did not happen until loooooong after Moses died. So, unless you’re suggesting that the 2nd person of God gave Moses a ‘preview’ of his future earthly incarnate form – which isn’t suggested anywhere in Scripture or Tradition – then your assertion can’t hold up here.
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Gorgias
Guest
Right…! And it forces us to ask how certain features of the Pentateuch – which are clearly post-exilic in origin – could have been ‘written’ by Moses.
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dmar198
Guest
St. Augustine mentions this possibility:
“How the Back Parts of God Were Seen. – Not unfitly is it commonly understood to be prefigured from the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, that His back parts are to be taken to be His flesh, in which He was born of the Virgin, and died, and rose again; whether they are called back parts on account of the posteriority of mortality, or because it was almost in the end of the world, that is, at a late period, that He deigned to take it.” source
He also has an interesting comment on John 12:41, which says, “Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory, and spoke of Him.” Augustine comments: “What Isaiah saw, and how it refers to Christ the Lord, are to be read and learned in his book. For he saw Him, not as He is, but in some symbolic way to suit the form that the vision of the prophet had itself to assume. For Moses likewise saw Him, and yet we find him saying to Him whom he saw, If I have found grace in Your sight, show me now Yourself, that I may clearly see You; for he saw Him not as He is. … [Jesus] showed Himself, therefore, even before His incarnation, to the eyes of men, as it pleased Him, in the creature-form at His command, but not as He is.” source
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frangiuliano115
Guest
You “see” God symbolically. In nature for instance, in a baby, at Mass, in some people.
But if you’re not pure in heart, you don’t “see” God anywhere.
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frangiuliano115
Guest
We sometimes try to understand very difficult scripture upon which there is no agreement between scholars and theologians. Sometimes it’s not worth it. I think. (like - who were the sons of god and the daughters of men? Two different races?).
But it’s nice to read the differing ideas.
I liked the post re God showing Moses all of history so he could write about it. From Adam, I mean.
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