I'm confused on what's allowed or not anymore

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robwar said:
You need to stop going to and reading hard core “traditionist” sites which is confusing you.
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:confused:

If hard core “traditionalists” were the only ones opposing the practice of altar girls, the opposition would have been nipped decades ago.
 
ProVobis said:
:confused:

If hard core “traditionalists” were the only ones opposing the practice of altar girls, the opposition would have been nipped decades ago.
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Op brought up a lot of different “issues”. but claiming altar girls were allowed because the Vatican caved in (doesn’t say to who they caved into or for). is a bit of a stretch. Likewise the claim that Protestant ministry were behind the changes in the current liturgy is equally a stretch and usually brought up by conspiracy traditionalists.
 
1ke said:
Whatever sites you are going to, STOP. “All over the place” is probably really a traditionalist site, sedevacantist if I have to guess. Stop going to these sites, they are poison.
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robwar said:
Op brought up a lot of different “issues”. but claiming altar girls were allowed because the Vatican caved in (doesn’t say to who they caved into or for). is a bit of a stretch. Likewise the claim that Protestant ministry were behind the changes in the current liturgy is equally a stretch and usually brought up by conspiracy traditionalists.
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So only conspiracy traditionalists are behind the massive amount of work done to recruit male altar servers inter alia in my neck of the woods? I thought they wanted nothing to do with the OF?

Makes no sense.

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angell1 said:
is it true that vatican caved to altar girls under pressure?
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If the Vatican were going to “cave under pressure,” don’t you think they would have
“caved” on artificial birth control first? There’s been a LOT more pressure on that.
 
agnes_therese said:
If the Vatican were going to “cave under pressure,” don’t you think they would have
“caved” on artificial birth control first? There’s been a LOT more pressure on that.
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Not a valid analogy. And it’s way off topic.
 
ProVobis said:
Not a valid analogy. And it’s way off topic.
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If the early church had deaconesses I see no reason they can’t be altar servers. After all it’s a discipline. The dogma is that males and females can be deacons or hold any other position in the church other than priest or bishop.

That’s the dogma

The discipline of many centuries was to have males do most of this. There is no reason to oppose a change in discipline regarding altar servers or foot washing.

The more we enable woman to hold valid positions in the church, the less they will feel a need to go become “female priests” in the liberal “catholic” churches.
 
Jon_S said:
If the early church had deaconesses I see no reason they can’t be altar servers.
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My understanding is that they were “employed” for baptism purposes, not for the liturgy. Makes sense since the wide practice was to be baptized naked.
The more we enable woman to hold valid positions in the church, the less they will feel a need to go become “female priests” in the liberal “catholic” churches.
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Where’s the basis of this argument? Cardinal Arinze doesn’t think so.

youtube.com/watch?v=KWByiwHE4MY
 
ProVobis said:
My understanding is that they were “employed” for baptism purposes, not for the liturgy. Makes sense since the wide practice was to be baptized naked.

Where’s the basis of this argument? Cardinal Arinze doesn’t think so.

youtube.com/watch?v=KWByiwHE4MY
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Cardinal Arinze thinks women shouldn’t participate in church? Weird. Sad and unfortunate. 🤷
 
Jon_S said:
I just don’t understand why people treat church discipline as dogma. 🤷
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If one sees male clergy as dogma, he or she shouldn’t play so fast and loose with some of the disciplines or practices. I would suggest watching Cardinal Arinze’s video, especially the part when he refers to altar servers as “small clerics”.
 
ProVobis said:
If one sees male clergy as dogma, he or she shouldn’t play so fast and loose with some of the disciplines or practices. I would suggest watching Cardinal Arinze’s video, especially the part when he refers to altar servers as “small clerics”.
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Well, that makes for an interesting quote, given that the new Pope, while he was still archbishop, and since becoming Pope, has had some very pointed things to say about clericalism.
 
Jon_S said:
If the early church had deaconesses I see no reason they can’t be altar servers. After all it’s a discipline. The dogma is that males and females can be deacons or hold any other position in the church other than priest or bishop.

That’s the dogma
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No such dogma that states anything of the kind.
 
Jon_S said:
Source to dispute, otherwise I consider this your erroneous opinion.
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If the dogma clearly states, not implies, that deacons may (or can) be female, then why does Canon Law forbid it? Dogma should trump Canon Law, no?

.
 
otjm said:
Well, that makes for an interesting quote,
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I believe he said it was a translation of the Italian.
given that the new Pope, while he was still archbishop, and since becoming Pope, has had some very pointed things to say about clericalism.
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Like what, for example?
 
ProVobis said:
If the dogma clearly states, not implies, that deacons may (or can) be female, then why does Canon Law forbid it? Dogma should trump Canon Law, no?

.
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Canon law forbids lots of things that aren’t dogma ( ie: married priests as a rule)
 
Elizium23 said:
The onus is on you to provide a source which backs up your assertion.
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My assertion that women are allowed where they aren’t prohibited (ie altar servers). The proof is in visiting any diocese in the world.
 
Jon_S said:
My assertion that women are allowed where they aren’t prohibited (ie altar servers). The proof is in visiting any diocese in the world.
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They are allowed as long as the priest celebrating the Mass allows them. He can’t allow them unless the Pastor allows them and the Pastor can’t allow them unless the bishop allows them. And not every diocese allows them.
 
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