I'm debra in "everybody loves raymond"

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struggling4him

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Married an Italian girl whose family (immediate and extended) are all within 20 minutes of our house and its driving me crazy. They are wonderful people who have been nothing but nice to me, but I feel like I am overwhelmed. We see them at least once every weekend (sometimes more), and there is a standing invite to dinner Wednesday nights.

Wife and I just had a major blow-up because I wanted to “bow out” this Wednesday - admittedly, I have done it a bunch of times before. She thought I was being “deceptive” because I kept giving multiple reasons for not going, but the thing is they’re all true. I work an average of 60 or more hours a week - on Wednesdays when we go there, I feel like my day consists of waking up around 4ish, reviewing files for work, going to work, trying to finish around 5ish instead of the usual 6ish because they’re waiting for us, going in the car, arriving, having dinner, sitting around talking until its time to go, and coming home just in time to crash. I’m wiped! Maybe I’m just introverted, but I feel like that much time being “on” with other people, it just leaves me feeling burned out. Just let me have a half hour to read a newspaper or something, but go go go from morning till night exhausts me - and she doesn’t understand why I don’t consider time with her family to be relaxing, but I don’t.

I never signed up for this. I wanted to get married with the goal of starting a new family - now I feel like I’m just another one of her parents’ kids - there’s some expectation for us to attend Wednesday dinners (also when they entertain the local priest friend of the family), we’re expected to go to this function, that function - I go to bed wishing I had joined the military, and she and I could just be shipped out to some base 1000 miles from here and we could just do it ourselves. Things are so busy, and I feel like this expected commitment eats into what little free time I get.

I told my wife its enough that we see them on weekends. Heck, most sunday nights they wind up inviting us over and I’m fine with going. But enough is enough. I do not need to see these people this many times a week, and I just feel like its intrusive. Though I’d rather be able to have dinner w her on Wednesday at home, I understand if she wants to go solo, just please let me have the night home to recharge my batteries. But she feels like I don’t like her family and is extremely upset.

Penny for your thoughts??
 
There is nothing wrong spending a lot of time with family, on the contrary I would say that it is a good thing. The only caveat is that both spouses must understand that now they form a new family and that the spouses wishes come before their parents and the rest of relatives. Sometime too much of a good thing can make us loose appreciation of it, moderation is a virtue, even in relationships.

I grew up in an Italian family and I was raised with the idea that the children should move far away from the parents in order to form their own family nucleus. I did that and now that I am getting old I wish that we were much closer; however, the bond that my wife and I have would not have been as strong if we did not move far away.
 
Your wife needs to break away just a tad. Remind her of the verse in Genesis about leaving father and mother and joining with one’s spouse. The relationship of the husband and wife trumps all relationships with other family members. Good luck!
 
If you lived near your family, too, you’d never do anything but visit relatives.

I think it is time to say, “Listen–I can give you once every weekend–or maybe most of the weekend, I’m not trying to put some limit on that–with one weekend a month doing something else, and I will go one Wednesday a month, too. I love your family, they are a great family, they’re great to me, but when I go too often, I feel overwhelmed. I’m not enjoying your family as much as I ought to. That is not right, I don’t like it, and it needs to change. Please help me out, here. I looked forward to marrying you partly because you have such a great family; it wasn’t supposed to be like this!”
 
EasterJoy said:
If you lived near your family, too, you’d never do anything but visit relatives.

I think it is time to say, “Listen–I can give you once every weekend–or maybe most of the weekend, I’m not trying to put some limit on that–with one weekend a month doing something else, and I will go one Wednesday a month, too. I love your family, they are a great family, they’re great to me, but when I go too often, I feel overwhelmed. I’m not enjoying your family as much as I ought to. That is not right, I don’t like it, and it needs to change. Please help me out, here. I looked forward to marrying you partly because you have such a great family; it wasn’t supposed to be like this!”
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👍

I totally agree.

When my husband and I first married, his parents would drop by every weekend. In fact, they would drop by, unlock the front door and walk right in.

It only took once for them to walk in on us as newlyweds for my husband to realize that although he loved his parents, having them there every weekend without warning wasn’t such a good idea.
 
struggling4him,

Unfortunately, as you’d no doubt expect from watching the show you reference, these things - traditions and family bonds - are resistant to change.

It sounds like you are a hard worker and care for your wife. But it sounds like you need some personal time to unwind. I completely understand. I work hard (well, sometimes) and my wife’s family is around a lot, and sometimes I just feel like some time to myself. Thankfully, my wife usually understands. The greatest challenge is simply in helping your wife understand. You need to help her see that it’s not at all about her family, it’s simply about you.

You mention rushing home from work on a Wednesday. Why not let work be your excuse once in a while. Call her to say you’re stuck at work and won’t finish till a bit later, and that she can either wait for you or go by herself. I pulled that trick myself recently - legitimately of course, but stretched it a touch.
 
maryjk said:
👍

I totally agree.

When my husband and I first married, his parents would drop by every weekend. In fact, they would drop by, unlock the front door and walk right in.

It only took once for them to walk in on us as newlyweds for my husband to realize that although he loved his parents, having them there every weekend without warning wasn’t such a good idea.
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It is the husband and wife who need to come to an agreement. They’ll have to decide how to deal the rather longer amount of time it will take for the rest of the family to come to accept their decision as final. They should not expect that they’ll stop getting guff from the parents immediately. They may never quit getting guff, and if the daughter keeps the high social rate on her own, she may be getting the guff in take-home containers.

What the wife should not try to think is that her husband can just suck this up himself, instead of asking her family to do it. He is feeling overwhelmed; it isn’t realistic that he’s going to be able to pretend an enjoyment of her family that he doesn’t feel. The more he’s forced beyond his in-law limit, the less he’s going to ever genuinely enjoy them.

A little of the in-laws: Enjoyment. Too much of the in-laws, forcefed: Bitterness and Resentment
 
What is her response when you tell her you’re exhausted on Wednesdays?
 
holyrood said:
What is her response when you tell her you’re exhausted on Wednesdays?
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Her response is that if I have time to hang out with my best friend for a guy’s night every 2 or 3 weeks, than I have time for her family on Wednesday nights. This led to a whole other discussion about how I must not love her because I leave for that - when I offered to make guy’s night once a month, she said it still wasn’t good enough because when she is with her friends, she makes sure I’m part of it and she doesn’t understand why I have to do things away from her.
 
struggling4him said:
Her response is that if I have time to hang out with my best friend for a guy’s night every 2 or 3 weeks, than I have time for her family on Wednesday nights. This led to a whole other discussion about how I must not love her because I leave for that - when I offered to make guy’s night once a month, she said it still wasn’t good enough because when she is with her friends, she makes sure I’m part of it and she doesn’t understand why I have to do things away from her.
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This is not about time, and if it were then her family does not get to be the Time-IRS with the right to demand everything except that which you have to spend to sleep, see to your own hygiene, and put food on the table and a roof over your head.

Different social groups are not interchangeable and some people have different social needs and abilities than others. I cannot imagine that she really believes that a man gets nothing different from a night with a group of other men than he does with a group of his wife’s friends or with a group of his wife’s relatives, as charming as everyone in those three groups might be. I think she can understand this, if she sets aside what she wants in favor of something that suits both of you. Tell her she can come to your guys night out, too, if being the only woman in a group of four or five guys talking about guy stuff is really what she wants, but you can only enjoy her family in portion sizes that are smaller than you are getting.
 
struggling4him said:
Her response is that if I have time to hang out with my best friend for a guy’s night every 2 or 3 weeks, than I have time for her family on Wednesday nights. This led to a whole other discussion about how I must not love her because I leave for that - when I offered to make guy’s night once a month, she said it still wasn’t good enough because when she is with her friends, she makes sure I’m part of it and she doesn’t understand why I have to do things away from her.
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Oh my goodness! Was she this possessive before you got married? Did you see the warning signs but decide to ignore them? If she is this needy and demanding now I can only imagine how bad it will get when you have children. I would recommend counseling to work these issues out now, before children are brought into the equation and you are “stuck”.
 
Am2010 said:
Oh my goodness! Was she this possessive before you got married? Did you see the warning signs but decide to ignore them? If she is this needy and demanding now I can only imagine how bad it will get when you have children. I would recommend counseling to work these issues out now, before children are brought into the equation and you are “stuck”.
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She is out of bounds, but she isn’t farther out of bounds than newlyweds can sometimes get. It is a bit early to think this is more than a normal first-years adjustment in expectations.
 
struggling4him said:
Her response is that if I have time to hang out with my best friend for a guy’s night every 2 or 3 weeks, than I have time for her family on Wednesday nights. This led to a whole other discussion about how I must not love her because I leave for that - when I offered to make guy’s night once a month, she said it still wasn’t good enough because when she is with her friends, she makes sure I’m part of it and she doesn’t understand why I have to do things away from her.
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She sounds insecure. You need to assure her of your love, while also helping her understand that couples do not need to do everything together, and each spouse needs time to themselves, to spend on their own interests and with their own friends.

There are books that can help explain the differences (on a general level) between the sexes and how that can affect relationships. Or any decent couples counsellor would be able to help you two work through this.

Or, as EasterJoy suggests, bring her along to a boys night out. It is unlikely she would want to keep coming.
 
Your concerns and requests seem quite reasonable to me. You need to stop being “Debra” ASAP. Just explain to your wife that you love her and you love her family but you need more time to come home and recharge your batteries so to speak. Actually I am concerned that your wife doesn’t seem to value time spent alone with YOU! She is a married woman after all and her first allegiance is to her husband now and that includes giving you some comfort after a hard days work. That includes a peaceful homecoming with a nice meal with just the two of you and some time alone. You need to have an honest discussion with her about what you want and need and require going forward. You are not wrong here to request more time at home. The amount of time that you are seeing the in-laws is excessive and obviously not healthy for your marriage. Your wife needs to grow up a little.
 
I’m surprised at the amount of posters who seem to think the OP is just an introvert who needs to understand different personality types etc. For me, expecting your spouse to spend time every weekend plus every Wednesday with your immediate family is excessive and if my husband expected that our marriage would be in big trouble. It’s not because I’m an introvert - I am an extrovert. The issue is these people are my inlaws and I just do not have the same closeness with them as my husband does - that’s normal. Also we don’t have much in common other than my husband. I appreciate family ties and encourage them to be close to our children but hours and hours of their company every week would slowly drive me crazy.

I understand she may be from a family culture where they all live in each other’s pockets and that is normal for her - so she may see the OPs behavior as rejection. However he married her- he didn’t make vows to her mom and dad. He didn’t sign up to be an appendage to her family,

OP talk with your wife - go to a counselor or priest together if you need to but find. Compromise - one Sunday once a month would be more than enough for me. What about your family? Does she want to see them as much as her own family? If not, you gave the answer. She has to meet you halfway - you didn’t sign up to be a permanent fixture at her parents house.

I also agree that she doesn’t seem to want to be alone with you. Are there any big personalities in her family that she can’t say no to? That also might be a problem - they don’t want her to be too independent.
 
Kindness said:
I’m surprised at the amount of posters who seem to think the OP is just an introvert who needs to understand different personality types etc. For me, expecting your spouse to spend time every weekend plus every Wednesday with your immediate family is excessive and if my husband expected that our marriage would be in big trouble. It’s not because I’m an introvert - I am an extrovert. The issue is these people are my inlaws and I just do not have the same closeness with them as my husband does - that’s normal. Also we don’t have much in common other than my husband. I appreciate family ties and encourage them to be close to our children but hours and hours of their company every week would slowly drive me crazy…
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He’s not necessarily an introvert compared with the rest of the world, but only compared with his wife’s family. For the families who spend that much time with their extended families and enjoy it–good for them! Not everyone does, and that is OK, too. It is OK for the husband to say “This arrangement needs to fit my personality, too, and not just the personality of my wife and her family.”
 
I had a roommate once who was a very close friend. I am extremely extroverted (at the time, in the 50s). She was extremely introverted. She was a 4th grade teacher.

She came home from school, walked in the door, said hi. I said hi. She walked straight to her room and shut the door for awhile.

Had we both not taken the myerrs briggs before and knew all about that, I would have gone to knock on her door, ask how was your day…tell me everything. I would have been offended that she didn’t sit down with me right away to chat. But I knew that in order for her to stay sane, she MUST have the down time to debrief her brain and get some energy.

It sounds to me like the OP is more introverted than the wife. Not necessarily extremely so, but he’s used clue words that are textbook introvert. She gets her energy from being around people and thrives in the exuberance of a large family. Neither are wrong.

But if this crucial difference is not only understood but accepted, embraced, and cared for on either side, there will be offense taken. Introverts seem like snobs to extroverts. Extroverts seem like they are needy and overwhelming to introverts. “Why don’t you want to spend time with my family” is another clue phrase-- Instead of it being that the OP is caring for a personal need, she sees the end result-- not spending time with the family, and takes offense, rather than seeing the cause of it.

Everyone needs food, so everyone understands the feeling of hunger and filling that need. Everyone also has “libido” (not sexual energy per-se, but relational energy), but not everyone fills that need the same way.

I think focusing on this difference, explaining very carefully in words she understands, perhaps taking the myerrs briggs and getting some counseling on these differences and how to respect each other’s needs this way would create an understanding for the needs for the OP’s limitations. She can stop seeing it as a diss to the family, and be more understanding, hopefully accomodating for his needs. However. the OP should realize that this is a sacrifice she is making…to be longing to be around family and not be able to, or have you stay home and not share in it with her. The OP should also be willing to sacrifice, and occasionally suck it up and go out even when he is deprived of the energy.
 
You are the man of the house. You work hard. You deserve time to unwind. You deserve your wife placing you as number one. You deserve time with your buddies, which all men need. You deserve praise from your wife for not taking too much time with the guys and for showing interest in your wife’s friends. You deserve praise for the amount of time you have been spending with your wife’s family and acknowledgement of your need to cut back. You are a good provider. I can tell this from what you write. Your wife needs to think about all this and count her lucky stars. She could have it far, far worse.

This is probably of little help. I just had to get it off my chest. I don’t know what to say to help. I am just amazed that she seems to have no idea how good she has it.
 
I didn’t mean to suggest that the wife should not still see plenty of her family but there should be a balance between the needs of both spouses and also the marriage that they are building should come first. Rather than “what’s good for me” they should each think “what is good for our marriage” as a separate entity. Boundaries also have to be established so that the extended family (of both partners) appreciate the needs of the couple. It’s natural that what we grow up with becomes the blueprint for what “family” is and means. We can be running on many unconscious beliefs and assumptions. I think it is a blessing that you are recognizing all these differences early on in your marriage. Talking about everything and bringing it out into the open is definitely the best way to go forward. It could be really helpful to have some discussions with a marriage counselor so that you can understand each other’s point of view and also know that these issues are very common in marriages.

Also if the OP’s family does not live close by it needs to be acknowledged that this puts him at a disadvantage and his wife in an advantageous position regarding power relations in the marriage. She always has a chorus of people in close proximity to confirm her point of view and frame her husband in the wrong. This is obviously very dangerous to the happiness and future of the marriage so balance must be found.

Once they have children a whole new set of issues could unfold. There could be major advantages and blessings regarding help with the children with an involved family close by. On the other hand there could be another layer of expectations regarding how often the family sees the children and how much influence they have in how the children are being raised.

OP I would take the bull by the horns and make sure you have plenty of open communication on all these issues. Also, do you offer a loving alternative to your wife’s family? Do you arrange to take her out or to spend time together doing things you both like at the weekends? Find pastimes you both enjoy that you can enjoy together. People experience love in different ways such as affection, sharing activities, talking, etc. you need to recognize each other’s “Love Language” so that you both can show love to each other in a way the other understands.
 
struggling4him said:
Married an Italian girl whose family (immediate and extended) are all within 20 minutes of our house and its driving me crazy. They are wonderful people who have been nothing but nice to me, but I feel like I am overwhelmed. We see them at least once every weekend (sometimes more), and there is a standing invite to dinner Wednesday nights.

Wife and I just had a major blow-up because I wanted to “bow out” this Wednesday - admittedly, I have done it a bunch of times before. She thought I was being “deceptive” because I kept giving multiple reasons for not going, but the thing is they’re all true. I work an average of 60 or more hours a week - on Wednesdays when we go there, I feel like my day consists of waking up around 4ish, reviewing files for work, going to work, trying to finish around 5ish instead of the usual 6ish because they’re waiting for us, going in the car, arriving, having dinner, sitting around talking until its time to go, and coming home just in time to crash. I’m wiped! Maybe I’m just introverted, but I feel like that much time being “on” with other people, it just leaves me feeling burned out. Just let me have a half hour to read a newspaper or something, but go go go from morning till night exhausts me - and she doesn’t understand why I don’t consider time with her family to be relaxing, but I don’t.

I never signed up for this. I wanted to get married with the goal of starting a new family - now I feel like I’m just another one of her parents’ kids - there’s some expectation for us to attend Wednesday dinners (also when they entertain the local priest friend of the family), we’re expected to go to this function, that function - I go to bed wishing I had joined the military, and she and I could just be shipped out to some base 1000 miles from here and we could just do it ourselves. Things are so busy, and I feel like this expected commitment eats into what little free time I get.

I told my wife its enough that we see them on weekends. Heck, most sunday nights they wind up inviting us over and I’m fine with going. But enough is enough. I do not need to see these people this many times a week, and I just feel like its intrusive. Though I’d rather be able to have dinner w her on Wednesday at home, I understand if she wants to go solo, just please let me have the night home to recharge my batteries. But she feels like I don’t like her family and is extremely upset.

Penny for your thoughts??
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What about moving family dinner night to a different evening of the week like a friday or Sunday night. Another option would just be honest with them and say “Hey I work 60 hours a week and need recharge time” if they care about you they will understand. Sometimes people just need to be told. It’s not like they can read your mind. You could offer a alternative evening or ask to do it every other Wednesday instead of every single Wednesday…what ever works with your schedule. My dad always warned me when you marry you not only marry the person but the family. He’s been happily married twice (widowed once and now with my stepmother over a decade) My family is small and many have just died off. You wife as well as you need to spend and enjoy time with them (though not to excess or your stress) while they are here and in good health. Believe me when they start to go sometimes it all happens fast. I lost a family member every year for a decade. Now my Dad is 72. I see him at least once a week and talk to him sometimes twice a weeks. You just never know why they may past to the next world beyond.
 
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