I'm doubting everything

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Zynxensar

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As a scrupulous person, I deeply overanalyse things, rigorously going into the smallest details so I find it hard to trust the advice of others, even my previous Confessors. I’m always questioning “maybe they don’t understand my situation. If I follow this advice I’ll be acting on a doubtful conscience and that’s a sin”. And when I read an article that would help my scrupulosity, questions like “maybe this only refers to a specific type of scruples even if it’s not explicitly mentioned so it might not apply to me” and “maybe this article is outdated. Maybe it IS now a sin to act against scruples even if I’m scrupulous”

My psychiatrist has confirmed that I have a mild form of OCD which has seemed to make its way into religious issues, so I’m positive it’s OCD that’s causing my scruples.

So now I’m rather confused because there’s actually no absolute certainty in knowing whether the person whom we are receiving advice from is giving the 100% correct advice. Even if it’s a Priest, Priests are still human and they can still potentially give some wrong advice even if they have the best of intentions as a Holy man of God. If I follow the advice and their advice is wrong, will I go to hell because of it? I know each of us has to make our own prudent judgments and not blindly believe anything, but this just sends me into an endless loop because around the corner, there’s ALWAYS room for doubt. Even if the one giving me advice is a learned, Holy, humble Priest who is described as saintly by many, leave it up to me (or my scruples) to find SOME SORT OF DOUBT that prevents me from acting eg “oh maybe he isn’t experienced in scrupulosity. He says he is but maybe he isn’t. To be safe I shouldn’t follow his advice”

It seems rather hopeless. If I’m constantly doubting even my Confessors, how can there be a cure for me? Its like my scrupulosity doesn’t want me to be cured.
 
In short, if you trust your priest, and he gives you bad advice, then that’s on him. Even every time I post on here to try to help you, I take my soul in my own hands. If my advice to you is bad, then I have incurred guilt, not you.

But my advice is based on the teachings of the Church, my own formation in how to be a priest (6 years of seminary, where we had many classes in moral theology, spirituality, and pastoral counseling), my own experience (2 years ordained, 2 parish assignments, thousands of confessions heard, dozens of people counseled, and several long-term spiritual directees), as well as good psychology, common sense, prudence, and the experience of my own struggles. So when I tell you now what I have told you before, you can trust that there’s a lot behind it:

You need to stop posting to this forum. It’s only going to make the problem worse. It’s a cycle: there’s a doubt, and the doubt makes you worried, so you post to get validation. That validation comes in the form of answers, and sometimes those answers contradict, since you’re asking a public of largely untrained people questions of a spiritually sensitive nature. The contradictions induce more doubts, and the cycle repeats.

This doesn’t mean you’re a bad person or you’re doing anything wrong. It means you’ve got a mental health issue and your brain is not working correctly. So you need to stop encouraging it to function that way. Stop posting to these forums. Talk to your psychiatrist and to your regular confessor. Pick a confessor and stick with him. Don’t let one doubt drive you away.

This will get better when you want it to, and when you take the steps necessary to be open to healing. I promise. I’ve been there. And once I broke away from my stubborn desire for validation, it all got better.

You are in my prayers.

-Fr ACEGC
 
I’m sorry this is happening to you. I will keep you in my prayers today. God bless
 
Yes he was, but once he started to see the truth of Christ he went on to be a great leader of the church.
 
Thank you Fr Edward George, this explanation makes a lot of sense. Does this apply to Priests only or other people too? For example, an apologist says ‘‘X is not a sin’’ but it turns out that X is indeed a sin. Does the responsibility still fall on me?
 
Never did. For some reason. Maybe because it’s an official teaching of the Church so my scruples doesn’t doubt this
 
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If you have a lot of doubt, what you do is give even that to God, trustingly, like a child bringing fallen leaves to his Father or mother.

Perhaps say in front of the Blessed Sacrament this aftenoon in a short visit:
"Father, I only have these 2 doubts and 5 questions to offer You, like the fishes and the loaves, that’s it, but I am giving You these to work miracles, to bring joy to others, to help others in this or that work or concern of theirs. This is all I have, but I am bringing them to you to do something good with. Thank you for asking me to merge with You in this prayer offering to You. Thank you for making the impossible easy. "
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Have you heard of the analogy of a restless monkey living in our mind? Ted Powell called his a “Drunken Monkey”, and it wreaks havoc in his, and everybody’s, mind when we’re afraid.
When our mind goes into that fearful place of wanting to cling on to what it is that we know. I have a metaphor for that. We call the mind going into a fearful place the Drunken Monkey. The Drunken Monkey is that fearful mind, that fearful way of thinking, that when it gets activated, when it gets going it starts spewing out all sorts of self-talk. I need to fix this now, you better do this, what happens if this happens? Why did you do that or what did I do that? How can I possibly handle this particular situation? And so what it essentially happened to me was I had gotten hijacked by the Drunken Monkey.

Now there are a couple of things to be aware of as you start to think about that negative self-talk part of our mind: the Drunken Monkey. One of the things that the Drunken Monkey likes: simplicity, clarity and certainty. Simplicity, clarity and certainty. There’s that part of our program that likes to have everything boil down to something that we can grab onto and phase absolutely and positively true.

Ted Powell: When Your Mind Works Against You at TEDxJacksonville (Transcript) – The Singju Post
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Clarity, certainty, simplicity: with what you’ve been going through, I don’t think I have to explain what they are, but I have to say that it is the clinging to those that really wreaks havoc on the scrupulous. Therefore, central to getting yourself out of the scruples is to accept the opposites of those: obscurity, uncertainty, and complexity. And you do this by embracing the three theological virtues: faith hope, and love.

As a young Jesuit priest, Rev. John Kavanaugh was desperate to discover his life purpose and calling. So he decided to pack his things and move to Calcutta for a year of prayer and missionary work. While there he met Mother Teresa and asked her to pray for him to receive clarity. But she refused, saying “Clarity is the last thing you are clinging to and must let go of. I have never had clarity, but what I have always had is trust. So I will pray that you trust God." (http://www.livesalted.com/trust-vs-clarity/)
 
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When you’re out of the situations that cause scruples, do you still feel guilty?
 
I heard a similar point from a priest from Opus Dei.

He talks about the passions and appetites as follows: They are like dogs. God made them, and so they are good, but they need an owner. Otherwise, like dogs without an owner, they will bark and bark and make messes everywhere.

The owner is the will and the intellect. These are “developable” capacities that God gave us. He gave us these capacities so that we could come to know Him in intimate ways that other animals cannot. We were given a “rational soul”. So we come to know God, to learn His will for us, and to help others, many others, during our short time on earth.

Our intellect helps us to come to the truth, and our will helps us to “do the good”.

At their “vanishing point” in the horizon the truth and the good “merge” to God, Who is the source of all truth and all goodness (and all beauty).
 
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cures… sadly God doesnt go around curing people on the fly any more of anything be it a fever, or mental illness or even actual demonic possession… DO people actually recieve a miracle from time to time, or find a medical cure for a disease or mental health issues… sure. but that is few and far inbetween as well; an what good does it that do for the other thousands of people suffering.? who knows. I dont trust priests,clergy, or religious anymore either and I dont have OCD, but for the fact that they are no holier than anyone else walking around, they make the same stupid mistakes as anyone else, and their semi professional opinions on any thing is about as useful as a random strangers opinion or a professional psychologist/ psychatrist who probably doesnt have any common sense in other regards. Plus their attitude, and political views can be very off putting at times. But they do a job and service which I do admire and appreciate as much as anyone else doing a public service.

Once you see the actual book work put into becoming clergy or religious , it is nothing more than a degree in history, and a year training on practical management skills and that is cutting things down to bare bones.

Are some people actually intelligent and are some people actually " holy " sure, but more often than not, people are not as smart or holy as they think or pretend or hope they are. An in the end only history really tells for certain.

Anyhow ZYN, the best we can do at times is just find the best way to cope with our problems, or as some put it, our crosses, sometimes some have more crosses that are heavier and larger than others who may only have one large and heavy cross to bare. Either way for either person that cross still is a burden isn’t any less painful than the other persons, and some how still becomes motivation to carry on.

Keep on looking for help ZYN , dont give up. Everyone doubts, not everyone keeps trying to understand.
 
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My answer is still the same. Posting here is only going to make your problem worse. If you want to get better, work with your psychiatrist and your priest.
 
And you have never doubted the Church? Selective scruples to you disadvantage. Never forget the most important commandment-Love. Everything else is insignificant in compare.
 
Zynxensar said:
there’s actually no absolute certainty in knowing whether the person whom we are receiving advice from is giving the 100% correct advice. Even if it’s a Priest, Priests are still human and they can still potentially give some wrong advice
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Welcome to our world. 🙂
 
By “my answer is still the same” do you mean the responsibility falls on them?
 
No, I mean that you need to seek help in real life from your psychiatrist and a priest. Continuing to ask these questions on here is just going to drive your compulsions further.
 
I just want to point out how well Father Edward George knows how to treat OCD. I’ve read a number of his pots and they all fall in line with what my therapist has ever told me about my compulsions and what not to do with them. We need more priests who know how to treat OCD. It’s more common than diabetes in the USA alone, and not many people know how to deal with it. Father, my therapist suggested that I find a priest who knows about OCD to help me with my confessions. How can I go about finding one? I feel like a burden, but I realize I need help. Is this something I should call my diocese for help with or would that be too much?
 
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