Nearly all Christians recognize holy Baptism as valid regardless the denomination. Lutherans are not rebaptized if they become Roman Catholic and visa versa. The concern over the Eucharist is merely instructional since Lutherans and Catholics both believe in the Real Presence.
Baptism and Eucharist are two separate Sacraments. There are seven Sacraments in the Catholic Church. I suggest you study these first and then make your remark. I mean it will save the explanation.
The clergy would shepherd their flock far better by teaching them the truth - which is, as the Church teaches, that there are presently insurmountable disagreements preventing the different denominations from being in true and full communion with each other, and hence making intercommunion meaningless.
My point is pragmatic and what unifies. To dissect the faith as a way to reject others doesn’t sound Christian. I understand the sanctity of the Mass and the faithful reverence to guard the elements of Christ, the reserve sacrament, from those who would willingly abuse or denigrate that which we consider the most holy thing on earth. But those who seek our Lord, rejoice in His saving grace, beg His forgiveness and taste His heavenly Host can not be denied. No man can separate God from others.
No, but men can separate themselves and others from God by playing fast and loose with the sacraments - and truths about those sacraments - that He has entrusted to them in the interests of a false ecumenism that amounts to the grave error of indifferentism.
You don’t seem to get it, do you? A Catholic would ask you, what heavenly host you are talking about? Is it to be found in a Protestant mass? This may be blunt, but he would think that you do not have the heavenly host in a Protestant mass. Receiving something purported to be heavenly host but which one believes is actually not, then it is truly a sacrilege and a blasphemy.
I would word it thusly:
Study the Catholic Sacraments first. It may help you.
Please don’t put out wrong information. We don’t have open Communion in the Catholic Church. Anglicans and Lutherans are not in communion with us and a priest is not allowed to give them Communion except under very limited conditions, with the bishops approval, and only if their own pastor is unavailable.
The Church’s teaching on this is very clear. See the Catechism, paragraphs 1400-1401:
We should not profess a Christian unity that does not, at this time, actually exist. Catholics should not receive communion at non-Catholic churches (since we don’t believe they have a valid priesthood, and thus, no valid Eucharist). Non-Catholics should not receive at a Catholic Church, if nothing else, out of respect for our beliefs along these lines.
I understand and respect your view…as a Methodist for many years, I held the same view. But I hope that you will also understand and respect the Catholic view on this as well. If you have experienced Catholics who practice differently, they are out-of-step with our actual doctrines on this topic – perhaps unintentionally, yes, but that doesn’t make them ‘right’ and the Church teaching ‘wrong.’
It sounds as though your Roman Catholic family members were poorly catechized since they should have know that the Catholic Church does not allow communion in non-Apostolic churches.
As I understand it, if you do this, you’re putting the poor priest ‘on the spot’ as he technically needs his Bishops approval and even then it’s only supposed to be for the gravest of emergencies - as I understand Catholic teaching.
ben, you could be a Catholic with such good grasp of Catholic practice.
Very gracious of you and speaks volumes of your Christian example. In the Episcopal Church all Roman Catholics present are encouraged to partake of the most holy Sacrament.Wow! Well I certainly didn’t expect such a lengthy religious and philosophical debate!
To the person who said that a baptism and a mass aren’t usually one in the same, I have an answer for you, if you are interested: This coming Sunday, there will be a mass, followed by the baptismal ceremony; so while they aren’t one in the same, I am attending both with my family.
As for the ensuing debate, I do my best to respect the traditions of all faiths and religions. I had actually planned on receiving until I read up on what to expect in a Catholic mass, and learned of the protocol that said that non-Catholics should refrain from the Eucharist, and wanted to know from the very knowledgeable people in these forums if there were any other traditions that I should respect, as well. I would do the same if I were in a Baptist or Pentecostal Church. If I were visiting a Mosque, for example, as their guest and was asked to remove my shoes or to respect another of their traditions, of course, I would follow it as best I could.
Respect is something that (at least in my area), I find that is lacking when it comes to situations like these, and I try to live the values that I preach. I may not be Roman Catholic, but as a guest in a Roman Catholic Church, I will respect their customs and traditions to the best of my ability - both because I am not there to offend anyone, merely to celebrate a momentous and happy day with my family, and also because I was raised to be polite and respectful. I would never go into another person’s house as their guest and not follow their rules, and I believe that principle should apply to houses of worship, as well.
Thank you all for an interesting debate, though! It was very thought-provoking to read and I learned quite a bit! I’m very much looking forward to the baptism on Sunday, especially now that I have a better idea of what to expect. This thread has made me feel quite comfortable and very welcome in advance of the ceremony on Sunday.
Thank you all and may God bless all of you with happiness and health,
Casey
