I'm Gay, but I'm Not Switching to a Church That Supports Gay Marriage

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westNwewaxation said:
Interesting article on a complex topic.
theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/13/05/im-gay-but-im-not-switching-to-a-church-that-supports-gay-marriage/276383/
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**And I’ve met many other gay or queer or same-sex attracted Christians, in all flavors of Christianity.
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The biggest reason I don’t just de-pope myself is that I fell in love with the Catholic Church.**
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It is interesting and provides evidence of the problem with language.

“gay”, what does that mean to everyone and here the writer clarifies that to mean other than

male/female with SSA, acting homosexual accepting that gay is a faite accompli…

It is and will continue to be my position that the term “gay” should mean other than SSA person.
 
CopticChristian said:
It is interesting and provides evidence of the problem with language.

“gay”, what does that mean to everyone and here the writer clarifies that to mean other than

male/female with SSA, acting homosexual accepting that gay is a faite accompli…

It is and will continue to be my position that the term “gay” should mean other than SSA person.
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Coptic:
Is it your opinion then we should use the term SSA only?
Gay may be slang I might agree for SSA.
 
I applaud the author of the article for his efforts to live out his life in a celibate manner. The burden of being a homosexual is a hard one to bear. It can only be borne with the help of God and a willing spirit to do what is right in the eyes of God.

I quote from the article; “The Church needs to grow and change in response to societal changes.”

The Church does not need to “grow and change in response to societal changes.” If that were true then the Church in the Nazi era would have gone along with the changes the Nazi’s made to their church, the Nazi brought change to society and wanted the Church to change as well. The Catholic Church said; “No.”

In modern time abortion, the killing of children in the womb has become lawful in the United States and in many other countries, should the Church change her policy just because society feels that it is right to allow women to choose to kill babies? I think not. Also, several states now allow physician assisted suicide, we of course need to change our beliefs to accept that as well, right? I think not.

The Catholic Church today stands for truth just as she did in years past. She is counter culture. She is a beacon that shows the way that God wants us to live. The Church welcomes homosexuals because being a homosexual is not in itself sinful. The acts that accompany it are sinful.

I do not wish to offend anyone, but I have to stick up for the truth. The Church is not a democracy, it is a kingdom. Gods Law is not subject to recall based on the tenor of the times. Truth is Truth no matter if it is believed or not.
 
MaryT777 said:
Coptic:
Is it your opinion then we should use the term SSA only?
Gay may be slang I might agree for SSA.
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Absolutely. You will however get resistance from the gay apologists that want to keep the word “gay” in use. I suggest that whenever you see this word ask this…

What do you mean by gay?

Is you get SSA…then just say…

for clarity in discussion, so we are all on the same page I suggest that we jettison the word “gay” and continually speak of SSA.

We are not our thoughts, we are not our behaviors.

Take a look at the following thread…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=792614&page=7

Posts # 99, 100, 101…same idea…
 
mike52ad said:
The Church does not need to “grow and change in response to societal changes.” If that were true then the Church in the Nazi era would have gone along with the changes the Nazi’s made to their church, the Nazi brought change to society and wanted the Church to change as well. The Catholic Church said; “No.”
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Um, might want to review the Vatican’s failings during the Holocaust…
 
Rete said:
Which were what exactly?
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There’s plenty that can be read on the subject – a quick trip through Amazon and Google should open up plenty of doorways. But if the Vatican had no blame in the Holocaust, why would it have apologized for its lack of response back in 1998?
 
If you read your history, the Church did everything it possibly could to help Jews escape (please read about just one wonderful priest, Monsignor Hugh O’Flaherty) and to protect escaped victims of Nazism. The Church had to walk a tight rope between condemning Hitler and having all churches closed down, or quietly working behind the scenes to smuggle people out. They did both, in many instances, and many priests and Catholics were killed in concentration camps along with Jews and others.

No, the people of the Catholic Church have never been perfect, and no one claims that. But during World War II, they did a heroic job of standing up to Hitler and protecting Jews as much as possible.

Any time human beings are involved, there will be imperfection. There will be error and there will be misjudgment. The Church, the Body of Christ, is perfect: it’s impementation in the hands of humans in this human world cannot be at all times.
 
cmmillen said:
If you read your history, the Church did everything it possibly could to help Jews escape (please read about just one wonderful priest, Monsignor Hugh O’Flaherty) and to protect escaped victims of Nazism. The Church had to walk a tight rope between condemning Hitler and having all churches closed down, or quietly working behind the scenes to smuggle people out. They did both, in many instances, and many priests and Catholics were killed in concentration camps along with Jews and others.

No, the people of the Catholic Church have never been perfect, and no one claims that. But during World War II, they did a heroic job of standing up to Hitler and protecting Jews as much as possible.

Any time human beings are involved, there will be imperfection. There will be error and there will be misjudgment. The Church, the Body of Christ, is perfect: it’s impementation in the hands of humans in this human world cannot be at all times.
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I applaud those Catholics who resisted the Nazis! There were indeed many of them and they are all righteous individuals. But the Vatican itself could have done much, much more. This isn’t the point of this thread - but Catholics should be wary of dropping the Holocaust into conversation as a case-in-point if research hasn’t been done into what the Vatican *failed *to do during this period.
 
gracepoole said:
I applaud those Catholics who resisted the Nazis! There were indeed many of them and they are all righteous individuals. But the Vatican itself could have done much, much more. This isn’t the point of this thread - but Catholics should be wary of dropping the Holocaust into conversation as a case-in-point if research hasn’t been done into what the Vatican *failed *to do during this period.
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Can you clarify what failures?
 
gracepoole said:
I applaud those Catholics who resisted the Nazis! There were indeed many of them and they are all righteous individuals. But the Vatican itself could have done much, much more. This isn’t the point of this thread - but Catholics should be wary of dropping the Holocaust into conversation as a case-in-point if research hasn’t been done into what the Vatican *failed *to do during this period.
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MaryT777 said:
Can you clarify what failures?
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Scroll to the bottom of this site for a list of outstanding sources: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html

I do believe that the Vatican and Pius XII were in an awful position. And I believe that if diplomacy had been of any use at that time, Pius could have done more. But viewing bystanders from a contemporary lens and washing away their choices is immoral in itself. I could say much, much more – but I’m genuinely worried that we’re veering away from the point of this post. Is my worry justified?
 
gracepoole said:
There’s plenty that can be read on the subject – a quick trip through Amazon and Google should open up plenty of doorways. But if the Vatican had no blame in the Holocaust, why would it have apologized for its lack of response back in 1998?
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I have read plenty on it. I am asking you what exactly you think the Church did wrong. I read and hear people speak and write unsubstantiated claims all the time. Anybody can repeat something they heard.
 
gracepoole said:
I applaud those Catholics who resisted the Nazis! There were indeed many of them and they are all righteous individuals. But the Vatican itself could have done much, much more. This isn’t the point of this thread - but Catholics should be wary of dropping the Holocaust into conversation as a case-in-point if research hasn’t been done into what the Vatican *failed *to do during this period.
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In the Holocaust 12 million people died: 6 million Jews, 4 million Catholic Christians, and 2 million non-Catholic Christians. BTW, what could the Vatican do,other then what it did do, with German guns trained on it? :confused: 🤷:gopray2::knight1:
 
tabycat said:
In the Holocaust 12 million people died: 6 million Jews, 4 million Catholic Christians, and 2 million non-Catholic Christians. BTW, what could the Vatican do,other then what it did do, with German guns trained on it? :confused: 🤷:gopray2::knight1:
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I don’t mean to be rude, but your numbers are off. ushmm.org/research/library/faq/details.php?topic=03#03

And the claim you’re making (how could the Vatican – or anyone – resist when their lives were on the line?) is specious. It’s been roundly rejected by Holocaust scholars as inaccurate (SS officers, for example, did indeed have a choice and death was not the typical response to those who refused to murder victims).
 
gracepoole said:
Scroll to the bottom of this site for a list of outstanding sources: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html

I do believe that the Vatican and Pius XII were in an awful position. And I believe that if diplomacy had been of any use at that time, Pius could have done more. But viewing bystanders from a contemporary lens and washing away their choices is immoral in itself. I could say much, much more – but I’m genuinely worried that we’re veering away from the point of this post. Is my worry justified?
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Rete said:
I have read plenty on it. I am asking you what exactly you think the Church did wrong. I read and hear people speak and write unsubstantiated claims all the time. Anybody can repeat something they heard.
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Rete, although I spoke about a site’s list of sources, I do also recommend its snapshot overview of Pius’ failings.
 
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