I'm glad the LDS Church didn't do this to me

[hosemonkey]

please stop with the LDS spin. have you even read the paper that printing press was going to publish? Joseph smith was doing bad things, he was going to be exposed and abused his position to destroy the newspaper. the “stability” of the mormon community at that time (which was already a problem) was in jeopardy because of the leadership of joseph smith. his original witnesses to the BoM were in many cases being publicly denounced by Joseph himself. He was at odds with his own counselors and was trying to run for president amongst all of this. you need to read William Law’s account. ( he was one of josephs counselors in the first presidency) you can read the actual nauvoo expositor ans see what was going to be printed. perhaps joseph should have stayed away from other men’s wives, not to mention the young daughters and stayed faithful to his own wife none of this would have happened.

The LDS church is currently going the orwellian route of changing lesson manuals to make the polygamy of those days invisible. look at the teachings of brigham young…only mentions one wife. do you really think that brigham wasn’t characterized by his emphatic endorsement of polygamy as the stepping stone to godhood? not to mention the relief society room photos of the dutiful emma smith when she left the LDS church. where are the pictures of joseph’s other wives in there?

a lot of mormons really feel deceived when they find out the true history of the LDs church. they fell for the GBH “I don’t know that we teach that” line and assume that the current watered down “milk” lessons on sunday are the same doctrine the LDS church has always taught and emphasized. when the “meat” is revealed then many come to know the truth and are set free. why do you think they keep toning down the temple endowment?

at least you have finally come out of the closet. you are definitely a TBM. 32 years of Mormonism has overtaken your 18 as a Catholic and you are proving your belief in the LDS church. I am glad that you are doing it here though where perhaps you can finally see the real issue. one cannot “accept” mormonism and say oh wonderful christian friends let’s join up against secular humanism. Catholics need to stand up for the Catholic church and promote it to all as God’s church. we can’t let ecumenism create a complacent attitude that impedes our efforts to bring all into FULL communion with GOD’S church. we certainly can’t let heresy go unchecked and thus have to speak out against mormon doctrines and practices. even zerinus will tell you that. he at least is consistent in denouncing all other churches as apostates. there simply is no middle ground here. remember what jesus said he would do with the lukewarm?

I heartily concur. I told Why Me on another thread that he cannot have feet in both camps, he cannot straddle the fence, he cannot favor one without offending the other, he cannot serve truth and serve a lie. He seems to be desperate to keep his fences mended. Why, Why Me, did you desert your first love? Where do you find the truth? It must not be in mormonism, you left it (sorta) As the man said, all this mormon spin will not change the fact that Joseph Smith was a villain, a liar, a fornicator and a convicted criminal, not to mention a megalomaniac. Seems to me that the good people of Nauvoo had good reason to plug him, given his ability to enforce his will by terror and force of arms on them. Make a choice, Why Me. That fence rail is gonna get mighty uncomfortable.

 

[dolphinlove]

What percentage of the population of the USA is mormons?

 

[why_me]

And how do you know that he did not? Did you ask him?

And what is really strange, Rebecca is that the guy found out about Joseph Smith on a church sponsored site: Familysearch.org. This is the lds church’s geneology site. How to explain it? I can’t. How can a person claim ‘they hid the truth’ when he discovered it on a church site?

The media is blowing this all out of proportion. Such is the attitude toward the lds church these days.

Perhaps, we have Mitt Romney to thank.

 

[RebeccaJ]

And what is really strange, Rebecca is that the guy found out about Joseph Smith on a church sponsored site: Familysearch.org. This is the lds church’s geneology site. How to explain it? I can’t. How can a person claim ‘they hid the truth’ when he discovered it on a church site?

The media is blowing this all out of proportion. Such is the attitude toward the lds church these days.

Perhaps, we have Mitt Romney to thank.

I think sometimes whyme that you don’t understand how it is to be raised as a mormon. You approached mormonism, willingly, researched, read, and you were fortunate enough to have the internet at your fingers.

For people like me, and this guy, we were raised in mormonism. Everything we were taught came from the mormon church, and the mormon church alone. We were taught that reading the type of things you read, that you find reasonable to read and consider, were anti-mormon, full of untruths, and a product of Satan himself. We were taught, and believed, that information outside of the mormon church was EVIL. So we avoided it.

I left the mormon church long before the internet was around, and I still knew nothing of the things that you find common place. The first time I read of peep stones, and Joseph’s arrest and the Kinderhook plates was in a book that I ordered from Amazon, when it was just a small little bookshop in the corner of the internet. I was shocked, and angry. Angry that these things had been hidden from me. That truth had been defined as evil, for my entire life.

So maybe it is all obvious to you. But to many, many mormons, it is not. The type of lists that this guy made has been made many times before. It is always the same list. The same truths that have been hidden with lies. The same things denied. He is just the latest and won’t be the last to discover them.

What I see in the SP, is what is happening throughout much of in what we fondly call the mormon corridor. People who have been raised in a tight knit, tightly protected community of mormons, they are busting out. And people like this SP get panicked over it and make poor decision in their panic.

And yes, I agree that the media sensationalizes many things. That is why it is best to read many reliable news sources. But I have also experienced first hand real news being put out and people denying the truth of it just because it didn’t fit their beliefs. It goes both ways.

 

[why_me]

Well, now, let us look at this thread. First, it started because a mormon was excommunicated. What did this former mormon claim: The church hid its history of polygamy. This was given has one reason for his disappointment.

I pointed out that the former mormon found his information about polygamy from a church sponsored website: familysearch.org. I also posted another church sponsored website where polygamy is explained.

Now what can we say about this individual that was excommunicated? I do believe that we can all see that he had an agenda. How can he claim a hidden polygamy history when he discovered it from a church website? Also, polygamy is mentioned in the Mormon scriptures: the doctrine and covenants covers it.

As a postscript, the excommunicated mormon is now posting on an antimormon website to a standing ovation. He now has is 15 minutes of fame.

I do think that I have proved my point on this thread, regardless if some posters keep moving the goalposts.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Well, now, let us look at this thread. First, it started because a mormon was excommunicated. What did this former mormon claim: The church hid its history of polygamy. This was given has one reason for his disappointment.

As I said whyme, this guy did not learn of JS polygamy in primary, Sunday school, YM, the MTC, his Elder’s quorom. No where. In fact, it is glossed over like it never happened. He didn’t go looking for something he never heard of! And most likely he was a good mormon boy and told anyone who told him that JS was a polygamist, that they were lying and saying anti-mormon things.

And as you see, when he told people of what he learned he was excommunicated. It is not right for a mormon to know these things, let alone tell people about them.

I pointed out that the former mormon found his information about polygamy from a church sponsored website: familysearch.org. I also posted another church sponsored website where polygamy is explained.

He said he decided to check it out. And like a good mormon boy, he looked first to mormon websites. The shock for him was that he found something that he was never taught, and probably defended as a lie.

Now what can we say about this individual that was excommunicated? I do believe that we can all see that he had an agenda. How can he claim a hidden polygamy history when he discovered it from a church website? Also, polygamy is mentioned in the Mormon scriptures: the doctrine and covenants covers it.

Hidden from him whyme. As a mormon raised in the mormon church I was not ever told that JS was a polygamist. I knew that BY was, and that it was practiced for a minute, but that’s it. I never thought of looking for JS polygamy. I never once said, “gee, I wonder how many wives JS had”. Not as a mormon. I believed he was married to Emma, and Emma alone.

As a postscript, the excommunicated mormon is now posting on an antimormon website to a standing ovation. He now has is 15 minutes of fame.

What do you care? He is in a difficult position, and he found a community that supports him, of course he is drawn to it.

You are the classic example of how a mormon treats anyone who questions and is excommunicated for it. You look for ways to slander their character. Good job.

I do think that I have proved my point on this thread, regardless if some posters keep moving the goalposts.

No one moves the goalposts whyme. They only broaden your narrow view. I wouldn’t get too comfy in your self satisfaction, it is largely an illusion.

 

[why_me]

RebeccaJ:
To rebecca,
Read the article again and follow it closely. You will see that you are mistaken with your interpretation of how he discovered polygamy and when he began to communicate his understanding with others. He discovered polygamy from a church website.

I think that you will discover that you were wrong.

My daughters learned about polygamy during seminary. They knew about Emma’s dislike of the practice and many other tidbits. And as I said, it is in the Doctrine and Covenants and this is where they were taught about polygamy when in seminary they discussed that section. How to explain it?

 

[truthsilence]

To rebecca,
Read the article again and follow it closely. You will see that you are mistaken with your interpretation of how he discovered polygamy and when he began to communicate his understanding with others. He discovered polygamy from a church website.

I think that you will discover that you were wrong.

My daughters learned about polygamy during seminary. They knew about Emma’s dislike of the practice and many other tidbits. And as I said, it is in the Doctrine and Covenants and this is where they were taught about polygamy when in seminary they discussed that section. How to explain it?

**why me, I think you should closely read again (? - as in, did you read it at all?) Rebecca’s post #44 and #46. **

 

[valient_Lucy]

It was with other members of the lds church. His brothers were doing their own research.

“I was planning to leave the church quietly, but was denied that opportunity, presumably because I was speaking openly to other members about my findings and (was) writing things down,” Lamborn said.

This was why it was publically announced. So members would know that he was excommunicated and not speaking as a member in good standing.

I do partially agree. I think that it is wise for them to make it clear that he is no longer a member of the Mormon church. That being said, I think they simply could have announced that he resigned as a member, rather than to declare him excommunicated. But that could be me splitting hairs again.

 

[RebeccaJ]

To rebecca,
Read the article again and follow it closely. You will see that you are mistaken with your interpretation of how he discovered polygamy and when he began to communicate his understanding with others. He discovered polygamy from a church website.

I think that you will discover that you were wrong.

My daughters learned about polygamy during seminary. They knew about Emma’s dislike of the practice and many other tidbits. And as I said, it is in the Doctrine and Covenants and this is where they were taught about polygamy when in seminary they discussed that section. How to explain it?

Maybe you are reading a different news article than me, because it clearly states that a non-mormon co-worker asked about the multiple wives of JS, not polygamy in general. And everything that lamborn speaks to is that specific subject. So he went to familysearch.org and typed in Joseph Smith and that is where he discovered the multiple wives of JS that he never knew about. That is part of the incredulous nature of these sort of “discoveries”. The whole idea that these sort of things are hidden from you when you can see right in front of you that the mormon church knows about them. Just, they have chosen to not include the whole truth in their church education system. One has to wonder why. Don’t you?

What happens when a mormon discovers something that they see as being hidden from them, is that they start to wondering what else has been hidden. And so they go looking. And with the internet, it is very easy to find lots of hidden truths about mormonism.

As for your daughters and seminary… I was taught about section 132. But I was never taught that JS was actually practicing polygamy. And Emma’s objections were discussed for maybe 10 minutes, and presented as an objection to the IDEA. I was never taught in any church class room that she was objecting to the multiple wives that actually existed. I had to learn that on my own.

Ask your daughters if they know that JS had multiple wives, and if so, where they learned that particular bit of info. I think it would be very interesting if they learned this in seminary. And if so, what exactly they were taught. I highly doubt it was the entire truth or even half of it.

 

[why_me]

Because I am a fair person and seek knowledge from many sources I am pasting an interview that he gave with a blogger in Arizona for your reading.

peepstone.blogspot.com/2007/09/interview-with-excommunicated-member.html

I would have to disagree with him since my children learned about polygamy in seminary class and I have posted a church sponsored site that details polygamy different from Lamborn’s comment.

 

[why_me]

Ask your daughters if they know that JS had multiple wives, and if so, where they learned that particular bit of info. I think it would be very interesting if they learned this in seminary. And if so, what exactly they were taught. I highly doubt it was the entire truth or even half of it.

I did just the other day. She knew quite a lot about Emma not liking the practice. It is in the D & C. And she knew about JS’s polygamy.

In terms of ‘truth’, how much truth does a catholic teenager know about all the popes? Life is a learning process and we humans learn along the way.