I'm going out on a limb here

[Wannano]

Wannano:

it flows right into the Love chapter for without love we are nothing at all.

Yes. And in fact, that love is the first & second commandment of the 10. Love your God with all your mind and all your strength, Love your neighbour as yourself. So in the end, both old testament and new testament still inspired by this Love of God and love among fellow humans

And this love make us perfect as Our Father in heaven is perfect. But as each individual humans we are imperfect. Likewise the church as human organization will always have flaws. But as a united body of Christ, we are perfected by our love for each other as Jesus has loved us.

Is it too simplistic to believe that if early Christians would have concentrated on these truths and practiced them in every avenue of life and when gathering together that history would read totally different? When flawed humans try to enforce purity within the Body of Christ by force, it goes right against the teaching of Christ.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

So, the “33,000” figure is grossly overestimated.

Yes, the 33,000 figure is more than likely an inaccurate and overestimated number but having said that, it would be difficult to know exactly how many protestant denominations there are. With continual division, independent churches, home churches, private churches, churches that come and go, and mainline denominations coming to a close there is really no way to estimate.
One thing that can be looked at though, differently, is how many “popes” or leaders there are amongst protestants and that is almost as many as there are protestants. Each person being their own pope, choosing a denomination that agrees with what they already believe or want to believe rather than what is true. Then when the preacher says something they disagree with, time to try a different church, preacher or denomination. In 1988 Ray Boltz called it the Church Hop and this is just what I saw and experienced as a protestant.

https://lyrics.lol/artist/344052-ray-boltz/lyrics/1300110-church-hop

non-Catholics simply don’t believe the Catholic church “is” that church, or believe the reason for Jesus giving Peter the keys was to make him the head of the church.

Again, this is what they believe, but they are following what they already believe rather than seeking truth.

Protestants tend to view the church as simply a body of believers who gather together for corporate worship, rather than an ecclesiastical hierarchy.

The Catholic Church is more than an ecclesiastical hierarchy. That is just part of it.
The Church is the congregation of all those who profess the faith of Christ, partake of the same Sacraments, and are governed by their lawful pastors under one visible Head.

If Jesus commands us to hear the Church, there needs to be a visible Church. Protestant churches break up and divide every day because they have NO church to take their issues to as Christ commanded them.

 

[francisca.chapter3]

Anyone who read the bible would undrestand that Jesus is our priest, prophet & king.

The truth is not catholic’s monopoly. Rather, we believe in unity in diversity. Catholic means inclusive, the opposite of exclusive monopoly concept.

I have always known church as denomination can never be perfect. I stay in the church where I was baptized. I am not looking for a perfect church. I try to spread the good news instead.

 

[adf417]

adf417:

Wannano:

Even the Church can be a god.

This implies the Church is not the body of Christ.

You might want to consider an alternative to your own view of Church.

Peace!!!

I should have used a small “c” for church. I agree the Church is the body of Christ, and Christ is God.

I know many people both Catholic and non-Catholic who say they are Christians because they belong to a church but can’t tell you who Christ is to them.

So you do agree there is a view of Church that is God, yes?

Peace!!!

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

adf417:

Wannano:

Even the Church can be a god.

This implies the Church is not the body of Christ.

You might want to consider an alternative to your own view of Church.

Peace!!!

I should have used a small “c” for church. I agree the Church is the body of Christ, and Christ is God.

I know many people both Catholic and non-Catholic who say they are Christians because they belong to a church but can’t tell you who Christ is to them.

So you do agree there is a view of Church that is God, yes?

Peace!!!

Yes, where two or three are gathered there am I in the midst of them.

Your questions seem elementary…Is there something your driving at that I am not recognizing?

 

[francisca.chapter3]

I think I should add that “catholic” meaning “inclusive” does not include denominational errors. Errors must be addressed, exactly by promoting unity, because the deeper divide the more errors created. For example there are catholics who believe they are saved by their own works, whereas some protestants go to the other extreme: they teach their works as completely irrelevant to their salvation.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

For example there are catholics who believe they are saved by their own works

Are you speaking of individual people or something in the Church?

 

[francisca.chapter3]

Individual people, but some of them teach from the pulpit wrong doctrins in numerous chances

 

[TARRAT]

Maybe you have never been to a Catholic baptism, we are baptized as priest, prophet and king. You can look it up if you like. Men are imperfect disordered even but the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. They have been at it for over 2000 years and were led by those who walked with Jesus, as imperfect as they were. They were led by the Holy Spirit who is perfect.

 

[adf417]

Your questions seem elementary…Is there something your driving at that I am not recognizing?

No just looking for clarification.
Peace!!!

 

[Wannano]

Whew! :hugs: 1234567

 

[francisca.chapter3]

They were led by the Holy Spirit who is perfect.

The Church is led by The Holy Spirit. Yes. I am not sure who you refer as “they”.

I am sure that The Holy Spirit is not any denomination monopoly.

 

[francisca.chapter3]

adf417:

Wannano:

adf417:

Wannano:

Even the Church can be a god.

This implies the Church is not the body of Christ.

You might want to consider an alternative to your own view of Church.

Peace!!!

I should have used a small “c” for church. I agree the Church is the body of Christ, and Christ is God.

I know many people both Catholic and non-Catholic who say they are Christians because they belong to a church but can’t tell you who Christ is to them.

So you do agree there is a view of Church that is God, yes?

Peace!!!

Yes, where two or three are gathered there am I in the midst of them.

Your questions seem elementary…Is there something your driving at that I am not recognizing?

Perhaps the question is whether a person worship religion more than searching for God & His Truth.

Jesus say to the Samaritan woman at the well,

John 4
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 The hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him.
24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When he comes, he will proclaim all things to us.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who is speaking to you.”

Nobody can define God in all completeness. But in Jesus we know Him in completeness. and Jesus teach us to be united in love to one another, and only then we know Him whom God sent.

John17
Jesus Prayer before He was crucified:
21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

In the above light we understand the Law:

Hear o Israel, The Lord Thy God is One! Beside Him There is no other!

As long as we worship religion more than God, we are not one with Him. Instead, we become religious fanatics if not extremists, who worship religion instead of searching for God & His Truth.

 

[TARRAT]

I see you don’t get it. Sorry I bothered you.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

adf417:

Wannano:

adf417:

Wannano:

Even the Church can be a god.

This implies the Church is not the body of Christ.

You might want to consider an alternative to your own view of Church.

Peace!!!

I should have used a small “c” for church. I agree the Church is the body of Christ, and Christ is God.

I know many people both Catholic and non-Catholic who say they are Christians because they belong to a church but can’t tell you who Christ is to them.

So you do agree there is a view of Church that is God, yes?

Peace!!!

Yes, where two or three are gathered there am I in the midst of them.

Your questions seem elementary…Is there something your driving at that I am not recognizing?

Perhaps the question is whether a person worship religion more than searching for God & His Truth.

Jesus say to the Samaritan woman at the well,

John 4
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 The hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him.
24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When he comes, he will proclaim all things to us.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who is speaking to you.”

Nobody can define God in all completeness. But in Jesus we know Him in completeness. and Jesus teach us to be united in love to one another, and only then we know Him whom God sent.

John17
Jesus Prayer before He was crucified:
21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

In the above light we understand the Law:

Hear o Israel, The Lord Thy God is One! Beside Him There is no other!

As long as we worship religion more than God, we are not one with Him. Instead, we become religious fanatics if not extremists, who worship religion instead of searching for God & His Truth.

You presented it much clearer than I did. I am happy that at least one other person gets it. I think that regardless of being Catholic or non-Catholic this diversion tactic is one the evil so easily uses to divide the Church. It has been employed for centuries.

 

[RaisedCatholic]

“To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant,”

“To be deep into the Bible is to cease to be Catholic” - anonymous

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Nihilo:

“To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant,” or some such thing.

By an Anglican, I think.

“To be deep into the Bible is to cease to be Catholic” - anonymous

Yes, “to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant” is a quote from John Henry Cardinal Newman, a protestant theologian and priest who later converted to Catholicism. He realized when knowing both Scripture and studying Christian history, that Christian history, which includes Scripture, argues against protestantism.

 

[adf417]

“To be deep into the Bible is to cease to be Catholic” - anonymous

Except for the time when there wasn’t a bible as you know it.

Peace!!!

 

[lanman87]

Yes, “to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant” is a quote from John Henry Cardinal Newman, a protestant theologian and priest who later converted to Catholicism.

I always find this quote to be interesting as it is my study of history (from both Protestant and Catholic Historians) that keeps me from being Catholic.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I always find this quote to be interesting as it is my study of history (from both Protestant and Catholic Historians) that keeps me from being Catholic.

I used to be evangelical and it was Church history that brought me back to the Catholic church. I could not rationalize how I could listen to a man (pastor) in a protestant church explain to me what the writings of a book (Bible) meant that was put together by the Bishops of the Catholic Church. A Church the pastor rejected.

As a protestant I would often hear when talking about Christian history is that there were those in early New Testament times who believed the same as protestants believe today. But then when I looked at it I realized, that you can’t help but see that it was the Catholic church the Holy Spirit trusted and gave the responsibility of choosing the books of the New Testament and canonizing the Bible. Not one person outside the Church in early New Testament times was given that responsibility. Those outside the Catholic church were not recognized by the Holy Spirit.

If God gave the responsibility of canonizing the Scriptures to the Catholic Bishops, it is certain He was pointing to the Catholic church as His Church and it was that Church He was also entrusting to interpret the Scriptures. There is no other way to understand Christian history and the Bible.

To reject the Catholic church is then to reject the leadings of the Holy Spirit.