I'm going out on a limb here

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Are you familiar with the Muratorian fragment/canon? Earliest known list of the books believed to be inspired. Loosely dated late 2nd century to early 4th century.

That list includes Apocalypse of Peter as inspired and leaves out Hebrews, James and both of Peter’s epistles.

The Shepherd of Hermas was considered inspired by some for quite a while. Revelation was another highly disputed book. In fact, I’ve heard it’s still not read during Eastern Orthodoxy liturgy to this day due to it’s status.

So, the Gospels and Paul’s epistles less Hebrews were generally accepted but others were not. You needed a Pope(Damasus) to initiate the official canon and make a declaration as to what is inspired for the Catholic Church. I guess we both assume that Pope was guided by the Holy Spirit?

Interestingly, it was one of those organic beliefs of the Church just like Marian beliefs. And we don’t see anything official on either of them it until it is disputed by protestants. Then infallible councils are held and there is no wiggle room for Catholics to dispute.
 
Lenten_ashes said:
I honestly don’t see how anyone can read the early works of Ignatius, Justin Martyr, the Didache, etc and see protestant Christianity. James White, in particular, is a very peculiar fellow.

Now, I could see someone examining history and becoming faithful Anglican as they hold to Vincentian Canon and are very Eucharistic just as the early church was. But reformed, like Baptist or something? No way can I understand it.
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The first time I read the Didache I was completely astounded that it described very closely how my non-Catholic Church observes Communion .
 
lanman87 said:
Yes, “to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant” is a quote from John Henry Cardinal Newman, a protestant theologian and priest who later converted to Catholicism.
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Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman is to be canonized a saint of the Catholic Church, October 13th this year.

Have you read anything from his writings? Much of it available online, more added as transcribed
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/

The Newman Institute in Pittsburgh holds the documents for research and has regular conferences, just on his writings.

This man was a gifted intellectual, in no way interested in changing his religion. Study opened up insights, broke down misconceptions; through meticulous study of scripture, he was led where he never intended to go, to the Catholic Church.
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adf417 said:
Except for the time when there wasn’t a bible as you know it.

Peace!!!
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At which time, there was the OT canon that Jesus & His disciples referred to: “Have you not read?” “As it is written” “The Scriptures say” etc.
 
RaisedCatholic said:
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adf417:
Except for the time when there wasn’t a bible as you know it.

Peace!!!
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At which time, there was the OT canon that Jesus & His disciples referred to: “Have you not read?” “As it is written” “The Scriptures say” etc.
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And yet still many walked away. Which is why Jesus gave us His body, the church, not more scriptures.

Thank you Lord Jesus!

Peace!!!
 
Really? Are/were you Anglican?

Let’s look at a few passages from it:

Allow no one to eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized

Catholic practice – but I also know the Lutherans and Anglicans tend to practice it as well.

If anyone is holy, let him come; if anyone is not holy, let him repent. Maranatha! Amen

If you are in a state of Grace, you can partake. If not, you may not. Very Catholic.

Remember, Lord, your church. Found in verse 10:5 and also found in the EUCHARISTIC PRAYER II at the Mass.

You gave food and drink to all people for enjoyment, that they might give thanks to you; but to us you freely give spiritual food and drink

Has to be a real presence to be spiritual food and drink.
 
RaisedCatholic said:
And when addressing the inconsistency of various extra-biblical “traditions” in the early church, as senior apologist, Jimmy Akin, emphatically proclaimed, “Boy! Did they not all agree!”
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Jimmy Akin is very good and he is a senior apologist here at Catholic Answers not the senior apologist of the Church. Many times what he says gets taken out of context or misunderstood and used in wrong ways.
What he was pointing out in the video and states at the end is that we can become saints, “in spite of our flaws”. So when he was talking about their disagreeing it was because of their own personal flaws or sins. In the end they were obedient to the Church and became saints.

Part of becoming a saint is obedience. Yes, there were and are and always will be those who disagree with the Church and disagree with each other. The difference between a Catholic who may disagree or not understand the reasoning behind something in the Church and a protestant, is the Catholic says yes to God and walks out in faith. He obeys Jesus’ words when Jesus said, And if he will not hear them: tell the Church.. Those saints knew that the Catholic church was the pillar and foundation of truth, stayed in the Church and trusted.

A protestant will decide he is smarter than the Church and leave, becoming his own little church and his own little pope, deciding for himself what he thinks something in Scripture means. In a way he is becoming his own little pope, his own little holy spirit and his own little god deciding for himself what every Bible verse means, no matter what anyone else, or even the Church given to us by Christ, may say.
 
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Lenten_ashes said:
Really? Are/were you Anglican?

Let’s look at a few passages from it:

Allow no one to eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized

Catholic practice – but I also know the Lutherans and Anglicans tend to practice it as well.

If anyone is holy, let him come; if anyone is not holy, let him repent. Maranatha! Amen

If you are in a state of Grace, you can partake. If not, you may not. Very Catholic.

Remember, Lord, your church. Found in verse 10:5 and also found in the EUCHARISTIC PRAYER II at the Mass.

You gave food and drink to all people for enjoyment, that they might give thanks to you; but to us you freely give spiritual food and drink

Has to be a real presence to be spiritual food and drink.
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No I have never been Anglican. The Church I was raised in and continue to worship in views Communion as a special way of receiving the body of Christ in Remembrance of Him but I am sure you would cast us aside as “merely symbolic.”

Anyone who has been baptized and confesses Jesus as their Lord and Master and who is at peace with their fellow man would be invited to partake.

I don’t have a copy of the Didache in front of me but I don’t remember there being a direct reference to the Real Presence. Spiritual food and drink from Christ to a Christian can and does mean more than just claiming the Real Presence in Communion. Just as we physically must continue to eat regularly and drink and nibble throughout a day to sustain our physical life, so do we need to eat and drink constantly the spiritual food He gives us as He resides in our hearts and lives 24/7. Prayer without ceasing, confessing our sins to Him and each other, living at peace by choosing His way rather than our own is all a part of it. Allowing Him to be Lord and Master means constantly consuming the spiritual food and drink He offers.
 
Mary is the Ark of the new covenant. If you follow the theology Mary had to be immaculate.
 
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Yeah so if you think the RCC went apostate but still believe in a real Eucharist and Apostolic succession, you tend to look past Henry’s shenanigans lol.
 
I am not an Anglican but I am sure King Henry would take that as an insult being called “Pope”. 😉

But also, as someone once mentioned on here, King Henry would have gotten his first marriage annulled pretty easily if he lived today. 🙂
 
Exactly! You don’t want to mess with the Emperor.

So many on here really do take the whole historical side for granted!
 
Lenten_ashes said:
You gave food and drink to all people for enjoyment, that they might give thanks to you; but to us you freely give spiritual food and drink

Has to be a real presence to be spiritual food and drink.
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You will need to explain this in more detail? It makes totally no sense how you explain it.
 
MagdalenaRita said:
That is what I mean, these differences and disagreements were one of the main reasons for deciding to canonize a NT and it was the bishops under the Pope of the Catholic Church who made that decision
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This is a common misconception. I have not seen a single post of any non-Catholic who has any beef with the “Early Church”.

It was the Early church which recognised the scriptures. And probably most Christians adhere to that part. Saying they were Catholic and not catholic would be like saying Jesus was Catholic (like some strangely do) and not Jewish.
 
MichaelP3 said:
This is a common misconception
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You have to put my last post in context with the post I was replying to.
MichaelP3 said:
It was the Early church which recognised the scriptures.
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Yes it was.

Jesus was Jewish but He started the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is a beautiful blessing gifted to us from Jesus.
The Catholic Church is the fulfillment of the Jewish religion.
 
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