I'm hoping to attend the Byzantine DL this Sunday

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valient_Lucy

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Any advice? I’ve never been to any kind of Eastern Church before.

🙂
 
valient_Lucy said:
Any advice? I’ve never been to any kind of Eastern Church before.

🙂
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  1. no lipstick until after liturgy
  2. SENSIBLE SHOES… you’ll be standing most of the time, if not the whole time.
  3. be prepared to stay for fellowship time after. It might be just coffee… it might be a full meal. never know.
  4. don’t try to follow along; at first, the book is usually confusing. If it’s a ruthenian parish, it’s also heavy. If there is a music handout, however, it’s likely to be used. Just relax, observe, and experience.
  5. Be prepared: lots of incense is the norm. It ranges from typical latin easter levels up…
The normal mode of entry is to bow and cross yourself at the threshold of the nave, and then reverence the icon on the tetrapod. Don’t look for holy water fonts; there shouldn’t be any. Since reverencing the Icons and the Chalice involves kissing them, lipstick is a bad thing.

It won’t look anything like a typical latin parish. Don’t panic.

if you want to see what’s happening at the altar, sit front row, and along the center aisle. Even then, you still won’t see MOST of it; the priest will be blocking your view.
 
Aramis did a good job of covering it. If you want some further reading I recommend this article.

12 Things I Wish I’d Known…

It was written about a visit to an Orthodox church but it applies to Byzantine Catholics just as much.

In Christ,
Joe
 
I think I would only suggest one more thing. Do NOT say “amen” when the priest goes to give you Holy Communion. This would have disastrous results. 😊
 
My parish and the Russian Orthodox parishes I’m used to going to do not have pews and do not have prayer books. This is a bit of a controversy but I like not having prayer books. (The Greek Orthodox parish I go to less often has both pews and prayerbooks.)

The whole Liturgy is sung and there are many places with repetitions you can catch on to quickly. I printed out the Vespers material for a festal vespers once because a Latin friend who is in a choir was going with me. In the end I felt it was a mistake to have brought the printed materials and it affirmed the choice that’s been made by the priests at the churches I go to, not to have something in print for people to have their eyes glued to. I felt as if I’d half been in the vespers because I’d been looking at the print-out so much. Other people will have a different experience. In fact there are several folks at my parish who bring their own copy of the Divine Liturgy, so just the DL and not the particular prayers for the current feast day. They seem to be looking at the text even though they are very experienced with the Liturgy so for them it works. 🙂

In my parish we do have laminated copies to hand out of the Creed, and the prayers before communion, so I guess that reflects what the clergy decided were the parts they want to be sure the people all say…

Standing has been mentioned as the posture for liturgy. On Sundays we do not kneel. As has been said watch what others are doing. I did find when I first began going to DL that sometimes the “others” I’d been watching turned out to be fairly new to the East or visitors who were unfamiliar and watching someone else. It’s all good. 🙂

I concur with the others who mentioned Khouria Frederica’s “12 Things” as relevant for worship in both Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic churches.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone! Especially the no lipstick/lipgloss rule. I would have worn it otherwise.

Oh, as a Latin Rite Catholic visiting a Byzantine Catholic Church, do I have to cross myself the Eastern way, or can I continue to cross myself the normal way?
 
valient_Lucy said:
Thanks for the advice everyone! Especially the no lipstick/lipgloss rule. I would have worn it otherwise.

Oh, as a Latin Rite Catholic visiting a Byzantine Catholic Church, do I have to cross myself the Eastern way, or can I continue to cross myself the normal way?
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I don’t think anyone will notice which way you cross yourself. I cross myself the “normal” Byzantine way (right to left), when I attend Latin Rite, because it’s too hard for me to remember to do it the opposite way. I do genuflect there, though, rather than bow…since when in Rome…

I remember how nervous I was to attend Mass the first time and the Missal was no help. I got lost in the first few pages. Now I’m very comfortable in both Eastern and Western services. I wish you the same richness of experience.

Slava Isusu Chrestu!
 
5Loaves said:
Standing has been mentioned as the posture for liturgy. On Sundays we do not kneel. As has been said watch what others are doing. I did find when I first began going to DL that sometimes the “others” I’d been watching turned out to be fairly new to the East or visitors who were unfamiliar and watching someone else. It’s all good. 🙂
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Oh boy. There’s goes Plan A. Don’t have Plan B.
 
mariyka said:
I don’t think anyone will notice which way you cross yourself. I cross myself the “normal” Byzantine way (right to left), when I attend Latin Rite, because it’s too hard for me to remember to do it the opposite way. I do genuflect there, though, rather than bow…since when in Rome…

…Now I’m very comfortable in both Eastern and Western services. I wish you the same richness of experience.
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I’d say the same things.
valient_Lucy said:
Oh boy. There’s goes Plan A. Don’t have Plan B.
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LOL
If you meant that Plan A was to watch others and do as they do, that’s probably fine. I’d suggest Plan A be to arrive early, that could be about 15 minutes before the stated time for Divine Liturgy as the priests will have already begun their vesting and preparations by then, and someone may have begun chanting the hours. If you arrive early enough then you can introduce yourself to whomever is around, maybe a deacon, maybe some choir members, anyway then maybe you can buddy up with someone who knows the way around the DL. But it’s not necessary. You’ll be fine. We LOVE the Divine Liturgy and welcome visitors. I have found Latin Catholics more readily disturbed by someone seeming to not do as they “ought” to do than are ECs and Orthodox. Read through the “12 Things” article and then just go and just dive in. It is all good. 🙂
 
I hope you enjoy your visit the Byzantine church this Sunday. 🙂
 
valient_Lucy said:
Any advice? I’ve never been to any kind of Eastern Church before.

🙂
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Relax and enjoy. Don’t be obsessed with flipping pages in the “turquoise book” if you’re going to a Ruthenian parish. Just listen and observe. Cross yourself just as you always do – watch others for when to do it.

At communion tilt say your first name, tilt your head back but do not stick our your tongue or close your moth around the spoon.

Don’t be intimidated at the door if you get “rushed” by 2-3 people explaining their parish is “every bit as Catholic as XYZ down the street.” Just smile, nod, say good morning and accept any literature they might give you. If some guy gives you information on the EF Mass in a neighboring town (he’s been told not to do that many times) you’ll be at my Eastern parish. We are having a big BBQ tomorrow. Come to the front of the line and mention CAF. You’ll be taken care of… 😉

NB: There is no lipstick/lip-gloss rule. Sheesh. Your lips will not even come into contact with the spoon.
 
boatbearer said:
Your lips will not even come into contact with the spoon.
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You might be surprised, very often they do even when everyone ties hard to avoid it. I have also received when at times the spoon would touch the teeth, and even had the surprise of having the Catholic priest ‘tap’ a tooth to make the Sacred Species fall off :eek:

BTW - in Orthodox parishes they are not nearly so fastidious about how to “open the mouth wide, tilt head, etc” when receiving. Very often (in fact usually) the recipient will eat off of the spoon with the lips closed. This does sometimes happen in Byzantine Catholic parishes too, but usually only the priest and servers are aware of it.
 
Hesychios said:
BTW - in Orthodox parishes they are not nearly so fastidious about how to “open the mouth wide, tilt head, etc” when receiving. Very often (in fact usually) the recipient will eat off of the spoon with the lips closed. This does sometimes happen in Byzantine Catholic parishes too, but usually only the priest and servers are aware of it.
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That’s the way it is in our parish. The key I think is to pay attention try and do it the way everyone else does.
 
boatbearer said:
NB: There is no lipstick/lip-gloss rule. Sheesh. Your lips will not even come into contact with the spoon.
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I’ve not been to a parish EC or Orthodox where people did not kiss icons, the chalice, the priest’s hand cross, his hand, and many tho not all kiss the priest’s vestment during the great entrance. As one who frequently does cleaning in the temple I can say lip stick/chap stick is not welcome. Lipstick oils and colors stain. They are difficult and sometimes impossible to clean off.
 
choy said:
so just stay silent?
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Just close the mouth and turn away. One may cross oneself once one is safely away from the chalice and spoon.

http://ocaphoto.oca.org/filetmp/2004/October/417/Image/DSCN3964.jpg

http://ocaphoto.oca.org/filetmp/2005/January/854/Image/DSC_0135.jpg

In most Orthodox parishes I am aware of (OCA/Russian tradition), there is blessed bread and wine readily available to help move the Sacred Species into your inner sanctum. 😉 One may encounter this practice at a Russian Catholic mission, although I can’t say for sure 🤷.

Otherwise it may be possible to take a sip of Holy Water.

I have noticed that in Byzantine Catholic parishes one does not normally encounter the blessed bread except on special dates and then usually at the end of liturgy.

http://www.saintelias.com/foto/big/dismisantidor_elia.jpg
 
5Loaves said:
I’ve not been to a parish EC or Orthodox where people did not kiss icons, the chalice, the priest’s hand cross, his hand, and many tho not all kiss the priest’s vestment during the great entrance. As one who frequently does cleaning in the temple I can say lip stick/chap stick is not welcome. Lipstick oils and colors stain. They are difficult and sometimes impossible to clean off.
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This is a very good point, I should have thought of that …

Men just leave beer stains! 😃

Seriously though, I remember listening to the women discussing this issue informally but I forgot all about it, it can be a big problem.
 
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