I'm in love with a Jewish girl

[lax16]

Yes, what that Catechism quote from paragraph 846 says is that Jews are saved through the Catholic Church, but they don’t have to be visible members. The salvation comes to Jews through the Catholic Church in a mystical way. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI explained all this. There is no dispute about this.

Could you please provide a reference for this?

Does this also include the Jewish people who not only reject Christ and his Church but are strongly *anti-*Christian?

thanks!

 

[Peter12rb]

Best of luck to you two! I’d like to pass on advice from the Reverend Walter H. Cuenin, a Catholic chaplain who advises that yes, you can definitely get married without putting anyone in grave danger. interfaithfamily.com/life_cycle/weddings/A_Catholic_Priests_Perspective_on_Interfaith_Marriage.shtml

 

[InspiritCarol]

Oh wow. Some people have some shocking anger issues to work out.

Umm. Congratulations that you have found love and made it this far.

It is so wonderful that you are trying to deal with these issues now, ahead of time.

However you choose to go with the children, please do make sure the faith is strong.

The danger (from a practical perspective), is that the children would get a watered down version of both faiths; or somehow get the impression that everything and anything is okay.

It’s going to be tricky to highlight right and wrong if there is a disparity on this most fundamental foundation block.

What an amazing challenge you are undertaking.

Regardless of how things go, please do always pray together as a family every day.
Start this with your beloved now (it’s uncomfortable even in shared faiths, so don’t be discouraged).

If you can make a sucess of this, your future looks bright.
Pope Benedict’s book “Jesus of Nazareth” has some wonderful insight into this issue when he discusses the Sermon on the Mound.

Check it out.

And I feel like I need to apologize for the ugliness some have in their hearts… it’s only ignorance. Right?

Peace and Prayers!

 

[18trouble]

Praying that you are able to discern God’s Will for your life!

 

[Julia_Mae]

You would be leading your children away from salvation in the Jewish Messiah, Jesus or God.

The Church doesn’t say this, actually. The Jews are sort of “grandfathered in.” The Covenant intact. That never changes. They are saved in the Abrahamic Covenant.

The problem is that OP is going to need to have a Sacramental Marriage if he wishes to remain in the Church and that requires the children be raised in the Church. This has surely come up many time before through history, so I imagine if the OP consults with his Pastor there will be a lot of information and ideas about this.

 

[Francoist]

Call me simple minded but I just go with what the Catechism says. I refer you to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraph 1635.
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1635 According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority. In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage. This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage; and furthermore that the Catholic party confirms the obligations, which have been made known to the non-Catholic party, of preserving his or her own faith and ensuring the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.

Emphasis added.

The reasons that some posters have given are good, but before delving into the theological and philosophical underpinnings I thought it best to give you the black-and-white, incontrovertible law of the Church on this matter.

The bottom line is that Jesus Christ is the Incarnation of the Living God and as a Catholic you must agree to tell your children that this is so.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is available online from the USCCB and from the Vatican. Print copies are also readily available. If you are serious about your faith I urge you to take steps to access a copy so that you can engage these important issues in the detail which they deserve.

 

[Rete]

People should always put their potential children first in such decisions. Even before their own feelings and desires. Recognize that when you have children, there will be nothing in this world more important to you than that. Think of your children as existing even now in terms of their needs and potential.

When you go to mass, look around at the Catholic families. Look at how wonderful their lives are with their children, and how happy the children are to go to church. Check out the various programs for young children and see how wonderful that is for them. Then ask yourself if you want to deny your own children that life.

Your children won’t have baptism. No confirmation. No first communion. No Catholic prayers. No Christmas presents. No Easter celebrations. No Jesus directly in their everyday lives. Not even the gifts of the Holy Spirit granted to them by their baptism.

Now consider what happens when you die, and Christ asks you why you denied your children these things. You either believe you will be judged by Christ or you do not. If you truly believe that, then consider how you will answer this question.

 

[PennyinCanada]

People should always put their potential children first in such decisions. Even before their own feelings and desires. Recognize that when you have children, there will be nothing in this world more important to you than that. Think of your children as existing even now in terms of their needs and potential.

When you go to mass, look around at the Catholic families. Look at how wonderful their lives are with their children, and how happy the children are to go to church. Check out the various programs for young children and see how wonderful that is for them. Then ask yourself if you want to deny your own children that life.

Your children won’t have baptism. No confirmation. No first communion. No Catholic prayers. No Christmas presents. No Easter celebrations. No Jesus directly in their everyday lives. Not even the gifts of the Holy Spirit granted to them by their baptism.

Now consider what happens when you die, and Christ asks you why you denied your children these things. You either believe you will be judged by Christ or you do not. If you truly believe that, then consider how you will answer this question.

When you think of what Christ did by dieing on the Cross and opening heaven to us, making us children of God, it’s very hard for me to imagine what could be so very important that I would deny my children every aspect of the Catholic faith. We aren’t talking another Christian denomination, but rather a religion that denies that a messiah ever came. The saints were put to death rather than deny Christ is the Son of God. How will you come before Christ to answer for this decision?

 

[Limerickman]

Whatever about marrying a jew, if God blesses you with children it is very important that you raise your children as Roman Catholics.
(that’s assuming you are Roman Catholic).

 

[Canuck21]

Assuming we get married and have children, am I at fault if we raise the family Jewish? Her wanting to raise the kids Jewish does not affect my desire to be married to her in the slightest, so I’m just wondering what the Church’s reaction/advice would/might be.

The question is what do you wish most for your children? Do you care that they have the best chance to be saved? If you believe you can be saved without being Catholic, then what can I say, there is no point in this discussion since it doesn’t matter. But if you think the only way for salvation is through the Catholic Church by receiving the Eucharist as it has been taught for ages, then you know what you have to do. Life on earth seems long, but eternal life is so much longer. It is for you to prioritize what you want best.

 

[Chantal25]

There is a religion i think Jesus for Jews. They keep their same tradition as Jews but do believe that Jesus is the son of God.

Messianic Judaism also embrace him. If she is willing to accept Jesus, it could be possible, she could teach her faith and they could also be raised accepting Jesus. You may encounter great challenge with both family, just think this through.

 

[Catholic_Jay]

There is a religion i think Jesus for Jews. They keep their same tradition as Jews but do believe that Jesus is the son of God.

Messianic Judaism also embrace him. If she is willing to accept Jesus, it could be possible, she could teach her faith and they could also be raised accepting Jesus. You may encounter great challenge with both family, just think this through.

To do this he’d have to leave the Catholic Church for a different, though Christian, religion. Same effect: hell.

 

[Julia_Mae]

The Catholic Church does teach this.

The Church and Non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327

The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

(On revelation of the Resurrection)

**
992** God revealed the resurrection of the dead to his people progressively. Hope in the bodily resurrection of the dead established itself as a consequence intrinsic to faith in God as creator of the whole man, soul and body. The creator of heaven and earth is also the one who faithfully maintains his covenant with Abraham and his posterity. …

Jews came first and that Covenant is forever. Gods said so. The Church, and I (not that I matter) believe Him. Jews are not lost to salvation. In fact, no one is.

 

[chosen_people]

If your kids grow up Jewish. They won’t believe in Jesus or be baptized. That means it’s very likely they’d go to hell. Please don’t do it.

You wouldn’t be able to get married in the Catholic Church either. They won’t do it if the Catholic will not promise to raise their children Catholic.

As the mother is Jewish, all the children will also be Jewish. In fact, the only non-Jew in the family, the only person of a different religion in the family, will be the OP.

 

[Francoist]

As the mother is Jewish, all the children will also be Jewish. In fact, the only non-Jew in the family, the only person of a different religion in the family, will be the OP.

Shalom aleikhem, friend. Regardless of whether the children will be considered Jewish, the rule of the Catholic Church is that the Catholic party to a marriage with a disparity of cult (i.e. a mixed marriage in which one party has not had a Trinitarian baptism) must consent to maintain his or her own faith and to raise the children in the Catholic faith or else the marriage is deemed invalid.

I apologize if I sound like a broken record but let me restate the relevant passage:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1635 According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority. In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage. This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage; and furthermore that the Catholic party confirms the obligations, which have been made known to the non-Catholic party, of preserving his or her own faith and ensuring the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.

Shalom.

 

[TimothyIgnatius]

Timothy Ignatius…of all the posts I’ve seen on this forum, yours have been the ones IMO with the most compassion, understanding, intelligence, realism, and logic.
As a fellow forum-er, I for one have faith in your judgement, feelings and thoughts.

I think you must have me confused with somebody else! And if you haven’t I’m sure many here will disagree with you! Include me as one!

I appreciate everyone’s feedback, I also both apologize to and thank the moderator who moved this to the proper forum for me.

We’ve been talking a lot about this and we’re starting to lean towards some sort of middle of the road compromise. Is such a thing possible? Can we educate our prospective children in both faiths, properly, and allow them to make their own decisions?

There’s even more than interfaith dynamics in the relationship. She’s of Israeli descent, not a European Jew, so she appears middle eastern. Both our families have given us strife over us dating (I’m half Irish, half Sicilian); they’re concerned over her not choosing a Jewish boy, my family concerned that she’s neither Irish nor Italian, and not Catholic to boot. We live on practically opposite sides of the city we live in; I’m from the Bronx, she lives in Brooklyn. But we don’t care. Amidst all the chaotic tumult of life, when I’m with her, all is calm, all is peaceful and well. And that’s how I know she’s the one I’m meant to be with.

 

[jwinch2]

Shalom aleikhem, friend. Regardless of whether the children will be considered Jewish, the rule of the Catholic Church is that the Catholic party to a marriage with a disparity of cult (i.e. a mixed marriage in which one party has not had a Trinitarian baptism) must consent to maintain his or her own faith and to raise the children in the Catholic faith or else the marriage is deemed invalid.

Correct.

First, a dispensation must be requested and received from one’s bishop to marry outside of the Church as a non-baptized person cannot be married within the Church. If this is not done, the marriage is not valid. Secondly, this dispensation will come with the direct obligation to maintain the belief and practice of one’s own Catholic faith, and also the obligation to raise one’s children within the Church.

 

[jwinch2]

The Catechism paragraph pertains to those who have not been taught about the Catholic Church. If they have no knowledge of the Church, they can still be saved.

Correct. The passage is about those who are not aware that the Catholic Church is the mystical body of Christ and contains the fullness of truth for salvation. Those persons who, though no fault of their own, have not been taught this, can still be saved through God’s mercy and the actions of the Church. Those who leave the Church or who reject her, are a different story entirely.

 

[Kal2012]

We’ve been talking a lot about this and we’re starting to lean towards some sort of middle of the road compromise. Is such a thing possible? Can we educate our prospective children in both faiths, properly, and allow them to make their own decisions?

In the RCC, Jesus is the Messiah. In the Jewish tradition, they are still waiting for their Messiah. That’s a pretty significant difference.

Also, I’m not sure how you’d deal with religious education. Would the kid attend religious ed at the parish on one day and religious ed at the temple on another? Will you go to her temple one day and mass the next day? How would that make sense to the kids? I mean, if the goal is to raise the kid properly and in the tradition…I don’t even want to think about the kid being school age and trying to decide on the right religious school (if that’s what you want.)

I’m not sure how you’ll educate a kid in both traditions and do it very well. Kids simply don’t have adult brains. It’s sounds nice to allow the kids to make their own choice about religion, but they don’t have the same context that an adult would have making that choice.

As a convert and the parent of a young one, my kid is being raised in the Catholic tradition. He doesn’t have one parent that goes to a protestant and another parent that goes to the RCC. My husband doesn’t attend church at this point, so it’s my responsibility to give my son experience w/church (if he’s going to get it at all). I’d rather not have him confused as to why mom and dad do different things. He’s 5. Things are really simple when you are 5. If he decides at a later point not to go to church, then we can discuss that w/in the context of why he doesn’t like the Catholic church and guide him as he struggles to find his place as a Christian.

That would be much harder if my husband and I had different faiths.

Also, as a Catholic, I’d see Messianic Judaism as a step down. I attended a Messianic Judaism congregation for a short time here in Detroit and the people are friendly and they are Christians, but they still are more like Protestants. They don’t teach anything about Mary or the Saints. They worship Jesus in a Jewish context - which is beautiful, but they don’t teach the whole truth. That should matter when teaching your kids faith.

Catholicism gets a lot of its ritual and tradition from the Jewish faith. However, both Judaism and Protestantism don’t teach the whole truth. Judaism lacks the truth about the resurrection of Jesus/ his divinity. Protestants don’t have the whole Bible/neglect Mary/the Saints/church history and have theological problems.

Me, personally, I really want to share in communion and the sacraments with my husband and my son. I can’t imagine having a different faith than they do. It was okay when we didn’t have kids. He did his thing and I did mine. That attitude changed once my son was born. I want to worship with my husband and son and if that’s going to happen, it’s going to be in a Catholic church because he won’t go anywhere else.

People can make these situations work, but it takes a lot of extra work and effort to be successful.

 

[Harriet1954]

Some of the harsh responses I’ve seen on this thread really almost scared me away, but then I see under their names that they were banned. Hopefully, that will make them think twice before realizing that all kinds of relationships work within this lifetime. I do not think that the original poster needs quotes from other sources to give him his advice, but only reassurance that whatever he and his bride make of it is what will transpire. Encouragement…