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Wesrock
Guest
You’re making Simplicity into something it’s not. Divine Simplicity only means that God is not composed of parts.
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SeekerOfTruth7
Guest
As you can see above, when I answered the question and then questioned with: If God is not simple, then what composed his parts, there was not response. Those who deny simplicity, usually aren’t actually addressing the simple (pun intended) truth that all simplicity is is that God is not composed of parts, metaphysically or physically.
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Mike_from_NJ
Guest
How specifically does a God with multiple persons not constitute having parts?
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Isearch
Guest
Response to the OP:
Divine Simplicity, like God’s existence and attributes, is one of the things about God that are provable by reason alone (I’m sure that we agree on this). But even you notice that there’s something about God that’s not known to us creatures unless He Himself revealed this aspect to us in a supernatural manner. The Trinity is one such aspect.
Possible Objection: The analogies used to reconcile Divine Simplicity and the Trinity are untenable. The “Knower” relation and the “Known” relation are merely logical distinctions that are actually one and the same thing in God because of Divine Simplicity.
Reply to Objection: It is true that the “Knower” relation and the “Known” relation are merely logical distinct or distinct in the human mind in so far as these relations are discoverable in God through human reason alone. But, God Himself tells us, through supernatural means, that He Himself regards these relations to be actually distinct: an extra-mental distinction. So, in some manner unknown to us, these relations are actually distinct. And Christ gives us the names “Father” for the Knower relation and the “Son” for the Known relation.
P. S. I’m not going to debate if God’s existence is provable by reason alone. I’m simply saying what our (The OP and I) common ground is.
Divine Simplicity, like God’s existence and attributes, is one of the things about God that are provable by reason alone (I’m sure that we agree on this). But even you notice that there’s something about God that’s not known to us creatures unless He Himself revealed this aspect to us in a supernatural manner. The Trinity is one such aspect.
Possible Objection: The analogies used to reconcile Divine Simplicity and the Trinity are untenable. The “Knower” relation and the “Known” relation are merely logical distinctions that are actually one and the same thing in God because of Divine Simplicity.
Reply to Objection: It is true that the “Knower” relation and the “Known” relation are merely logical distinct or distinct in the human mind in so far as these relations are discoverable in God through human reason alone. But, God Himself tells us, through supernatural means, that He Himself regards these relations to be actually distinct: an extra-mental distinction. So, in some manner unknown to us, these relations are actually distinct. And Christ gives us the names “Father” for the Knower relation and the “Son” for the Known relation.
P. S. I’m not going to debate if God’s existence is provable by reason alone. I’m simply saying what our (The OP and I) common ground is.
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SeekerOfTruth7
Guest
Because each Person is not a part of God, but fully God.
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Dudd
Guest
Now that makes absolutely no sense.Because each Person is not a part of God, but fully God.
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Why not? Imagine there is a person with multiple personalities. Now does that mean each personality is 1/nth of the person? And those personalities can be really distinct from each other, even possess different memory as studies have shown. Yet they are not part of said human… they are all fully that human and possess entire human nature.Now that makes absolutely no sense.
Now imagine moods. I have at least 4-5 moods or types of behavior which affect me heavily. If I am down I am not productive and tend to view world in different way for example. Does that mean that while I am in that mood, I am 1/5th of me? Probably not. I am still fully me with my entire nature, free will and consequences behind my actions.
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Wow chill a bit. You already responded to that post. I don’t think you are understanding Trinity in correct sense. That would be like saying complex numbers make no sense because you can’t take square roots of negative numbers.
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SeekerOfTruth7
Guest
You have so much hatred in you. I could spend the time answering you but I won’t. No point. There is no desire to learn or change. The Blessed Trinity is 100% biblical, hence why 99% of Christians believe in it. Only cults and radicals don’t. If one doesn’t believe in the Trinity, then one is either a henotheist, modalist, polytheist, or a denier of specific truths of Scripture.
Here are some verses to contemplate:
Gen.1:26
Isaiah 9:6
Zechariah 12:10
Micah 5:2
John 1:1-3
John 1:14
John 1:18
John 5:19-23
John 8
John 20:28-29
Acts 5:1-5
Titus 2:13
2 Peter 1:1
Isaiah 44:6 with Revelation 1:17
I ask that you contemplate the impact of these passages with the Shema: “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God; the Lord is One.”
Here are some verses to contemplate:
Gen.1:26
Isaiah 9:6
Zechariah 12:10
Micah 5:2
John 1:1-3
John 1:14
John 1:18
John 5:19-23
John 8
John 20:28-29
Acts 5:1-5
Titus 2:13
2 Peter 1:1
Isaiah 44:6 with Revelation 1:17
I ask that you contemplate the impact of these passages with the Shema: “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God; the Lord is One.”
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SeekerOfTruth7
Guest
Debunk them all together in harmony.
If you “debunk” one of them, turns Scripture into contradiction. But taken altogether, one must believe in the Trinity
If you “debunk” one of them, turns Scripture into contradiction. But taken altogether, one must believe in the Trinity
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SeekerOfTruth7
Guest
You’re posts reek of hatred for the Trinity.Accusing someone of hatred??? You sound like a misled Democrat!
I don’t hate anyone. I don’t hate Trinity even though it’s bogus. What I do hate is one Christian condemning another over the bogus doctrine of trinity!
Never condemned by the way. I will pray for your soul.
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
That reeks of pride/hate, and at the same time you are not providing any contradictions in doctrine of Trinity and Scripture. Not sure what did you mean to accomplish by this sentence.Which verse would you like me to debunk first?
How so? Do you hate people condemning each other over existence of God? Over infallibility of Scriptures? Over anything else?What I do hate is one Christian condemning another over the bogus doctrine of trinity!
If you wish to do anything other than trolling, you should provide something concrete and enriching to conversation. Try to debunk those verses- you are welcome to and in this thread that would be appreciated attempt. However… as of now you’ve done nothing. You only claim something with no substance provided behind said claims.
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Isearch
Guest
@TheDefaultMan see post #510
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Lucretius
Guest
Since you didn’t mention the word “relation” at all in your critique, I have to insist that you probably don’t understand what we actually believe about the Trinity.
I think you would do well to wet your feet in Ghosty’s outline of how we actually understand the Trinity: The Best Model of the Trinity - #2 by StRaphael
Afterwards, I would search Ghosty’s posts for some other insights.
According to St. Thomas, it is precisely because God’s personhood is equal to his essence that makes him a Trinity, at least according to my understanding.
I think you would do well to wet your feet in Ghosty’s outline of how we actually understand the Trinity: The Best Model of the Trinity - #2 by StRaphael
Afterwards, I would search Ghosty’s posts for some other insights.
According to St. Thomas, it is precisely because God’s personhood is equal to his essence that makes him a Trinity, at least according to my understanding.
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tweedlealice
Guest
Blessings.
Some say, they have to go find themselves & get lost. I researched a lot. I felt less contact w God. Researching or looking for deep answers, gets us lost in words, not THE WORD. St. Ephram, has a prayer. The first paragraph is:
O LORD, Master of my life, grant that I may not be infected with the
spirit of slothfulness and INQUISUITIVISM, with the spirit of ambition and vain talking.
WE CAN LOSE HIS SPIRIT W OUR ARROGANCE & INQUISUITIVISM. You’ll still feel empty, w all your looking. You need to hold still & KNOW THAT HE IS GOD.,.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
Some say, they have to go find themselves & get lost. I researched a lot. I felt less contact w God. Researching or looking for deep answers, gets us lost in words, not THE WORD. St. Ephram, has a prayer. The first paragraph is:
O LORD, Master of my life, grant that I may not be infected with the
spirit of slothfulness and INQUISUITIVISM, with the spirit of ambition and vain talking.
WE CAN LOSE HIS SPIRIT W OUR ARROGANCE & INQUISUITIVISM. You’ll still feel empty, w all your looking. You need to hold still & KNOW THAT HE IS GOD.,.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
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