"I'm leaving it up to them to decide for themselves."

[nichjake]

I believe that the majority of us do have something that I call a “God sense” that enables us to pray and to be aware of God.

I’ve often wondered if maybe atheists go through their whole lives like that - without any sense of the presence of God? Maybe atheism is a kind of disability, like blindness or deafness - except that we don’t even know what it is that makes us aware of God, and when we are aware of God, it’s incredibly difficult to imagine not being aware of God - just as it is difficult for a sighted person to imagine being blind.

It’s almost impossible for a sighted person to imagine being blind, and I think, unless one experiences it, it’s almost impossible to imagine not knowing that there is a God - and I’m thinking it’s probably for the same reasons.

I wouldn’t call it a disability…but yes, a lot of atheists simply don’t feel the presence of god. I certainly don’t, I never have. During my childhood I pretended because it was expected that I’d believe…maybe I really did believe for a short period of time, my memories of childhood are very blurry in places. I’m on the fence about the idea of a “god gene” its seems like a plausible explaination because throughout history it has been advantagious to be religious, nowadays not so much although I’m sure most of you would beg to differ. But some people do seem to feel a presence, my friends do, my family does…but I don’t. And I can’t pretend to believe in something that I feel no presence of, it would be like you guys trying to pretend in an invisible pink unicorn…or even the flying spaghetti monster.

 

[jmcrae]

But some people do seem to feel a presence, my friends do, my family does…but I don’t.

This bears out my theory, I think.

And I can’t pretend to believe in something that I feel no presence of, it would be like you guys trying to pretend in an invisible pink unicorn…or even the flying spaghetti monster.

I see you are a fan of Richard Dawkins.

But, yes, I understand that it must be incredibly difficult for you. I wish you well, and I pray that God will one day reveal Himself to you.

 

[Katie1723]

I looked at it this way when my kids were little. …I would give them the foundation and build on it over the years, so hopefully, when they were older, they would realize the value of a strong faith. That being said, neither of my kids goes to church now. I go all the time and I pray for them all the time, but ultimately, they have to decide.
Kathy

 

[maryjk]

If I ever have children, I find the idea unlikely to say the least, I will let them choose what they want to believe because I know not everyone is cut out to be an atheist. It takes a certain confidence and strength that religious people often don’t have. Confidence and strength really aren’t the best words but I can’t think of anything better…I’m not saying religious people aren’t confident and strong…its just different for those of us who don’t believe. It also takes a very thick skin and the ability to shake things off without getting too riled.

Its very hard sometimes and I don’t want whatever kid my future self might have to struggle and face blatent discrimination as I did and often still do. I would expose them various religions but generally keep my opinions out of it. Most people feel a need for religion, just because I don’t doesn’t mean my kids wouldn’t either. You don’t need religion to have a strong moral compass, you just need a good teacher but for most people that is their religion.

This is what my in laws did for my husband. They wanted him to choose. Problem with it was that they didn’t give him any choices. He was baptized as a baby in the Catholic Church. He then never attended again. Not the Catholic church, not any church. So the choice was believe in nothing or try as a child to find something to believe in.

The question begs how are you going to expose them to various religions with out your opinions? By not attending a church on a regular basis, you are giving your opinions. By not praying in front of them, you are giving your opinions.

I’ve been denied a job solely because I was an atheist, thats not supposed to happen in this country and it hasn’t happened to any of the religious people that I know.

If you have faced discrimination, such as not receiving a job because you are an atheist, then you need to speak to a lawyer. The real question is, how would the employer know? Employers never knew that I was Catholic. It is not something that they can ask in an interview. So unless you stated that you were an atheist, they wouldn’t know. And if you stated such information, they may have been taken back by your forthrightness. If they told you that you did not receive the job because you were an atheist, then they have a problem. Maybe this was a job at a church?

And there are many people that have problems at work because of their religion. Just start a thread on how many people have been asked to take down pictures of Saints, of Churches or other such things. Or the number of people that have lunch meetings at steak houses on Fridays during Lent. Or, well you get the picture.

And I think it is funny that you state that to be an atheist it takes certain confidence and strength. As though religious people have no confidence or strength. I know that you qualified it by saying that you weren’t saying religious people have no confidence or strength, but since you couldn’t think of another way to put it, it kind of tells us how you feel.

And you are right, you don’t need a religion to have a strong moral compass. But you also don’t need a good teacher. My husband is an atheist. But he is very moral. (His parents are not.) I just wish his parents had stepped up to the plate and been parents.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I was just saying that the discrimination and difficulties are different. Before I came out as an atheist I never had problems with people, ever. I never once faced discrimination or was attacked for my supposed beliefs. Maybe I had it easy, but thats my experience. Having faith in something you can’t see or otherwise have tangible proof of is difficult, I know. I’ve been on both sides of the spectrum.

My experience has been that once I became a faithful Catholic, many of my friends were confused and some of them no longer speak to me. I have faced far more discrimination after my conversion.

As an atheist things are a lot harder. I see people wearing christian symbolisms (crucifix necklaces, t-shirts about religion and so on) all the time. I wouldn’t dare wear anything that announced my religious beliefs because frankly I know I wouldn’t make it through the day without being attacked in some way…and I live in a very liberal area. I’ve been denied a job solely because I was an atheist, thats not supposed to happen in this country and it hasn’t happened to any of the religious people that I know. If you believe in god, any god, its generally okay…but, forgive the unintended pun I just couldn’t think of a different phrase, god forbid that you don’t believe in god

It is wrong for anyone to attack you for your beliefs or lack of belief in God. I really don’t think this happens to atheists only, and I don’t believe that it is harder for them to live in today’s society. The society is full of many, many things that we as Catholics are appalled by. Then, we are told that we are not allowed to speak about those issues because we are inserting our religion into public debate. In this country we have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. I am a Catholic citizen of the U.S., and I have every right to look at the world as a Catholic American and bring the strengths of that perspective to the table of discourse. I should also be allowed to wear my crucifix as a sign of devotion and love for God, my Savior and my Creator.

Its funny how people convieniently ignored the “I’m not saying religious people aren’t confident and strong” in my previous post. Perhaps I didn’t make my point obvious enough, I’ll make sure to spell it out in big bold letter next time

I didn’t mention anything about you saying that religious people aren’t confident and strong. I addressed your comments on how difficult it is to be a person of faith vs. an atheist. I took you at your word that you did not intend to call religious people insecure or weak, and I did not say anything about it because you seemed to be “thinking aloud” as it were and had not finalized your thoughts.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

It is wrong for anyone to attack you for your beliefs or lack of belief in God…

I think the point he was trying to make is that people with firm beliefs are not generally accepted by society. If one is religious then people call them fanatics or narrow minded. If one is an athiest then people cannot understand how they can believe that there is NO God.

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Most of society is in the middle. THAT is the easy road. If you don’t believe in anything then you can agree with everyone, or at least not disagree with them. They tell their religious friends that they respect their beliefs. They tell their athiest friends that they respect their beliefs. No one is offended or challenged by their position, so they are liked. People often comment at how “tolerant” they are.

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As soon as you take a position it, by default, tells the opposite side that they are wrong. And that is a hard position to be in. So I think it takes equal courage and strength to be either a devout religious person or an athiest. Either way you are making yourself a target of the “other side”.

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Malia

 

[nichjake]

If you have faced discrimination, such as not receiving a job because you are an atheist, then you need to speak to a lawyer. The real question is, how would the employer know? Employers never knew that I was Catholic. It is not something that they can ask in an interview. So unless you stated that you were an atheist, they wouldn’t know. And if you stated such information, they may have been taken back by your forthrightness. If they told you that you did not receive the job because you were an atheist, then they have a problem. Maybe this was a job at a church?

This job was with student government at my university. I had put “MSU Freethinkers Alliance” in the activities/organizations section of the application and my interviewer asked what that was. The interview ended very abruptly once I told him what it was. I found out later that the guy who interviewed me was the head of the Jewish student union and they are very very anti-atheist. He ended up getting thrown out of student government because of what he did but I still wasn’t offered the position or even a chance to re-interview. This was months ago and they still haven’t filled the spot I had interviewed for.

I think the point he was trying to make is that people with firm beliefs are not generally accepted by society. If one is religious then people call them fanatics or narrow minded. If one is an athiest then people cannot understand how they can believe that there is NO God.

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Most of society is in the middle. THAT is the easy road. If you don’t believe in anything then you can agree with everyone, or at least not disagree with them. They tell their religious friends that they respect their beliefs. They tell their athiest friends that they respect their beliefs. No one is offended or challenged by their position, so they are liked. People often comment at how “tolerant” they are.

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As soon as you take a position it, by default, tells the opposite side that they are wrong. And that is a hard position to be in. So I think it takes equal courage and strength to be either a devout religious person or an athiest. Either way you are making yourself a target of the “other side”.

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Malia

THANK YOU! That is pretty much what I was trying to say but I couldn’t think of how to word it.