H
Harmony1988
Guest
Normative statements aren’t fact. By definition.
- Status
H
Harmony1988
Guest
Oh, in that case, since God doesn’t exist and morals which came from the Church are debatable, who cares what people do in this world. No, you are absolutely right, the church force fed me dogma and morals. Thanks for enlightening me, now I will go do whatever I want, murder, steal, assault, steal candy from a baby, mug an old woman, etc. etc.
If you want ‘critical thinking’ provide deductions/facts not your opinion on a matter, otherwise, provide an opinion with some deductions behind it. We haven’t said that you will go to hell, no one knows who does or who doesn’t. But the general belief exists that sinning to no end probably takes anyone one step closer. You aren’t an exclusive, no one is conspiring against you. Get over it.
Also ‘ad hominems’ - logical fallacies - attacking the faith/the person instead of the argument is…well…invalid; Not molesting adolescents. Not hitting on male pages - Oh I wonder what this is in reference to, what was the need for it, you know quite well that none of us on this forum tolerate anything like that. SO your motive was to aggravate something. Exacerbating the situation by hating isn’t doing your case any favours, unwillingly you are proving yourself wrong with all these erroneous notions and invalid arguments for why the church is wrong.
Don’t expect us to take you seriously when you committ logical fallacies:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Anyways, to the OP, I’m sorry to hear about your situation, we all have a breaking point. I hope and pray that you may return, may your family be blessed and you too, to get through this troubled time.
Take care my friend.
H
henrex
Guest
i must say that even if i dont personally know you i feel sad to find out that you are leaving the Holy Church… but even though i still want you to know that God loves you, and i will always pray for you and your family… God Bless you 
Sancta Maria, Auxilium Cristianorum, ora pro nobis…
Sancta Maria, Auxilium Cristianorum, ora pro nobis…
M
MrS
Guest
Perhaps you should too. This and other posts from you indicate you might change your religion from N/A to NONE.
.
P
PetersKeys
Guest
So do you expect God to get out his eraser and erase the verses that condemn homosexuality in the bible because you don’t agree with it? Are you above it all to deem what is a sin and what is not now? How do you infallibly know that homosexuality is not sin? Because you’ve seen gay couples and they seem happy with each other? Im sorry but that dosen’t suffice considered you don’t know what goes on behind curtains.
You don’t understand the eternity of hell because your mind is too limited, as all humans are. How can you understand the things of God if you yourself don’t even understand the things in this world.
E
Exalt
Guest
That’s not at all what I meant. I wasn’t making a logical arguement; I was pointing out that (for some strange reason) people here believe “my soul is in danger” for the things I say and believe. (Namely, all those things I said up there.)
If God would send someone to hell for believing that contraception isn’t wrong, (and not believing in every single “faith and morals” doctrine of the church), then I question the goodness of that God. That was my point.
Now, to the discussion it back to the topic at hand: Why did the OP leave the Church? I offered an opinion, but I would like to hear from him/her myself.
E
Exalt
Guest
It makes me chuckle a bit to have to say this: One doesn’t need to believe in such a thing as “infallibility” to make up his mind about what is ethical or not. On the contrary, there are good reasons for why people are ethical; There are also good reasons to continue that ethical behavior - and such people do not need to be supported by *anyone’s *infallibility.
I’ll be the first one to admit - no, that’s not strong enough of a word - *proudly declare, *rather, that my views and opinions are constantly being shaped and redefined by my experiences. (In fact, I think the same thing happens to the Church; they, because of the doctrine of infallibility, can’t admit admit to it, though.)
M
Michael96
Guest
I wonder if PM would have left the church if it were not for discussion on forums like this?
Somethimes I think religious forums are very bad for people’s faith. I do wonder if they do more harm than good. People get so wound up over issues that would be dealt with calmly, privately and prayerfully before the internet.
I know this site is well intentioned but in the “old days” the priest could judge what people needed to know about doctrine and when, and discuss it in a considered and sensitive context.
But the genie is already out of the bottle as they say.
Somethimes I think religious forums are very bad for people’s faith. I do wonder if they do more harm than good. People get so wound up over issues that would be dealt with calmly, privately and prayerfully before the internet.
I know this site is well intentioned but in the “old days” the priest could judge what people needed to know about doctrine and when, and discuss it in a considered and sensitive context.
But the genie is already out of the bottle as they say.
G
gam197
Guest
I hope you will reconsider and also consider posting on the forum. I really learned a lot from your debates. They were eye openers and you helped me to be aware of many things in my own life.
You are a great debater on keys issues.
Most of us Catholics in life struggle and fall short but that is OK. I think you are being too hard on yourself.
Mother Theresa - “God doesn’t require us to succeed; he only requires that you try.”
Forgiving also includes forgiving ourselves, something I struggle with.
You are a great debater on keys issues.
Most of us Catholics in life struggle and fall short but that is OK. I think you are being too hard on yourself.
Mother Theresa - “God doesn’t require us to succeed; he only requires that you try.”
Forgiving also includes forgiving ourselves, something I struggle with.
T
Ted_in_Charlott
Guest
I want to personally thank you for this quote from the soon to be Saint.
L
lampstand
Guest
Sorry the OP has chosen to leave. 
I hope we will see you again someday… 
I hope we will see you again someday…
C
Chancellare
Guest
PM,I’ve come a long way with some of you here, and I thought that you deserve to know.
I’m not going to argue my reasons or anything, althoughb we can all guess why
It’s a very tough descision for me, but one that I have to make for the good of our family.
Thanks for all you guys’ help feedback guidance and assitance.
PM
It doesn’t mean you’ll step out of CAF as well, right?
Judging from your other posts, CAF can still be a good sounding board for your journey, wherever it may lead you.
Our prayers are with you.
G
gam197
Guest
Please continue to go to church. If you feel you can’t receive, cross your arms and get the blessing.
I may be repeating myself here. I sometimes get jealous and my brother told me this:
“I see purgatory or heaven like a huge auditorium. Now when I am there, I may be in say row 20,000 but in row 1000, somehow, there is a person who I have known and helped. I call up to him and say, can I come share your seat.”
We are all on a journey, some have fortitude and are going forward today while I may be falling back in an area of my life. That is OK. The goal for all of us is to draw each person we know one step closer to God.
I may be repeating myself here. I sometimes get jealous and my brother told me this:
“I see purgatory or heaven like a huge auditorium. Now when I am there, I may be in say row 20,000 but in row 1000, somehow, there is a person who I have known and helped. I call up to him and say, can I come share your seat.”
We are all on a journey, some have fortitude and are going forward today while I may be falling back in an area of my life. That is OK. The goal for all of us is to draw each person we know one step closer to God.
G
GraceDK
Guest
:crying:I’ve come a long way with some of you here, and I thought that you deserve to know.
I’m not going to argue my reasons or anything, althoughb we can all guess why
It’s a very tough descision for me, but one that I have to make for the good of our family.
Thanks for all you guys’ help feedback guidance and assitance.
PM
Dear brother.
Please don’t go. You are our dear brother.
Don’t you know that the Evangelicals who really know something about the riches in the Roman Catholic Church respect Her especielly for Her teaching on the freedom of our conscience and that man has to follow it when he is severely tested ?
I understand the long lasting troubles you have endured… But I even have private messages in my PM where you encourage me about the Church… yes you… an older brother in the Church…
You are home with us… how can we feel good if our brother is leaving? you tell me that … The house will seem empty …
… Cant you stay and act according to your conscience? … that will judge you (and me) in the end… the Holy Spirit is working through it and Jesus understands Everything…
Please… wont you stay? We need you so much…
:grouphug:
P
PennitentMan
Guest
Hi there Grace. Thank you for the post. You are right, that was me. I was so on fire then…it seems a world away now…I understand the long lasting troubles you have endured… But I even have private messages in my PM where you encourage me about the Church… yes you… an older brother in the Church…
You are home with us… how can we feel good if our brother is leaving? you tell me that … The house will seem empty …
Oh Grace, I have tried to stay. I have. I tried all options, good and bad. I can’t stay. I can’t be a hypocrite.
I have decided to do what’s best for my family, my wife and I…and that descision is 100% in opposition with the Church teachings. I can’t still call myself a Catholic and live like that.
And like you said, I believe Jesus understands that. My conscience is such that I can’t remain Cahtolic anymore.
It breaks my heart, but I can’t live a lie.
I’ll still be around, but not as a Catholic.
PM
G
GraceDK
Guest
:crying:No, it is not a world away! It is not very long ago.
You love the Church!.. Tell me, what is the church but a bunch of sinners who can’t understand this or that or who don’t succeed in living this or that moral law? I have one too… one thing that has stayed with me for years now that is against Catholic moral law … oh yes… but would you then tell me to leave? I dont think so. You would say: “stay: Jesus will open a door… Say: Jesus come to my rescue, for I am poor and wretched… Lord, help me for I am weak and blind:”
Blind … that is what you are if you think leaving your family is the way out of troubles… Now!.. now is the time that you let yourselves be carried on the shoulders of the Good Shepherd. No one here is condemning you. Not one. You have tried to do your best… you follow your conscience. That is not hypocrasy… On the contrary… We need people like you here with us.
Do you think the Church is for perfect people? Its certainly not … Havent you understood anything at all!! Its the Love that makes us stay.
We need you. We love you. Please don’t go.
Please my sister… please my brother… we want you to stay. My heart is bursting… I don’t know what else to say.
B
bilop
Guest
PM,
You’ve probably heard the saying “the Church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints”. I think that’s true.
If you believ ethe Catholic Church is the Church God Himself founded, how can you leave? I would hope you would stay. If you don’t follow all the rules right now that doesn’t make you a non-Catholic, just a sinner like the rest of us.
Keep going to Mass, but don’t receive if you shouldn’t. Where better to work out your issues, and your wife’s issues than in God’s Church?
God Bless
D
DJgang
Guest
I will pray for your family.
I’ve read through some of your posts. Back in August of 2006, I wanted to die, I suffered from extreme PPD … at the time, it’s a wonder that I didn’t try to kill myself.
I did commit a moral sin (wasn’t Catholic at the time) … hindsight is 20/20 I assure you!
I, personally, think you should continue to attend Mass, try to find a support system for your family there. The rest of the Sacraments, well, you know church teaching … just keep yourself and your family in prayer with Jesus’ most Sacred Heart. For some reason, I really think you and your wife, your family will get through all of this!
I also suggest that you ask the Priest for the Sacrament of Annointing of the Healing for your wife. I really think this would be a proper time for the Sacrament.
God bless you.
I’ve read through some of your posts. Back in August of 2006, I wanted to die, I suffered from extreme PPD … at the time, it’s a wonder that I didn’t try to kill myself.
I did commit a moral sin (wasn’t Catholic at the time) … hindsight is 20/20 I assure you!
I, personally, think you should continue to attend Mass, try to find a support system for your family there. The rest of the Sacraments, well, you know church teaching … just keep yourself and your family in prayer with Jesus’ most Sacred Heart. For some reason, I really think you and your wife, your family will get through all of this!
I also suggest that you ask the Priest for the Sacrament of Annointing of the Healing for your wife. I really think this would be a proper time for the Sacrament.
God bless you.
B
blessedtoo
Guest
PM, this is very sad news.
We will be here for you when you return.
We will be here for you when you return.
P
PetersKeys
Guest
Ah yes, moral relativism. So your saying you have no basis for morals. I mean how could you since they are always changing.
- Status