I'm livid... I cannot believe that

[davy39]

CatholicSam:

I wonder if the people who are voting against parental notification of abortions think to themselves “Heck, I don’t want to know if my kids have abortions!” If not, then what on earth ARE they thinking? What parent would not want to know that their child had a surgical procedure? You would think that even if they are pro-abortion, they would want to know what’s going on in their own child’s life for “selfish” reasons.

I don’t know the first thing about Unions, but if they started telling members to vote a certain way, why don’t the members just say “No, I’m voting FOR it, and this is why I think EVERYONE should vote for it…”

The unions, at least the Teamsters, of which I am a retired member, have always supported a Democratic slate, at least around here, so very seldom have I voted according to the unions wishes. They used to have a thing called “drive” which raised money for different politicians, but I never supported it. I’ve always said that the unions would support the devil himself, if he was a democrat. So as I said, the unions have and continue to do many good things for the workers, but I do not and never have blindly follow their wishes.

 

[koda]

davy39:

If the unions do nothing for the workers, where do you think pensions and the forty-hour work week came from? Yes there have been bad union bosses and bad unions, but they are largely responsable for the standard of living we enjoy today. I was a union member for thirty-five years, and other than grumbling about the dues a little, I was glad we had a little protection for our jobs. We are seeing the effect of the weaker unions in lower wages, and the mass exodus of jobs overseas.

A few things:

1. Prop 73 would have changed the State constitution - did you ever hear that mentioned one time in a pro-73 ad? Many people felt that this fact was being hidden and had strong feelings about the constitution being changed in such a manner - the constitution wasn’t even discussed in the campaign.
2. Unions, specifically, the teacher’s union in CA - when Arnold was running for office he went on and on about how education would be one of his top priorities. Once in office he struck a deal to borrow a ton of money from the education budget and in the interest of helping the state as a whole, it was agreed to. No Arnold doesn’t want to pay it back and the teachers are screaming about it and have filed suit to get the money back. Arnold also tried to privatize the penions of public workers. They fought back and he had to back down - thus was born the idea of effetively stopping the unions from using dues money in politics. If prop 75 had passed there would have been no one with the bucks to mount an effective campaign. Do you think Arnold would have taken the same position on dues and politics if those teachers had been in favor of his plan? I don’t.

As for jobs moving out of the country - why is that the fault of the unions? Because they want a living wage and decent benefits for their workers? The huge corps that are leaving are doing it to increase profits. It’s okay if the workers can’t afford a decent life but far be it for their hefty salaries and bonuses to decrease. So they can get workers in other countries to word for $5 a day or less. Do you want to work for that? I didn’t think so. And, or course, the enviromental regs are practically nonexistent in these places so it’s okay for them to pollute the water and air. IMO, corps that do this should face heavy fines and taxes. They are not interested in the well being of the US, only in the well being of their bottom line.

 

[davy39]

koda:

A few things:

1. Prop 73 would have changed the State constitution - did you ever hear that mentioned one time in a pro-73 ad? Many people felt that this fact was being hidden and had strong feelings about the constitution being changed in such a manner - the constitution wasn’t even discussed in the campaign.
2. Unions, specifically, the teacher’s union in CA - when Arnold was running for office he went on and on about how education would be one of his top priorities. Once in office he struck a deal to borrow a ton of money from the education budget and in the interest of helping the state as a whole, it was agreed to. No Arnold doesn’t want to pay it back and the teachers are screaming about it and have filed suit to get the money back. Arnold also tried to privatize the penions of public workers. They fought back and he had to back down - thus was born the idea of effetively stopping the unions from using dues money in politics. If prop 75 had passed there would have been no one with the bucks to mount an effective campaign. Do you think Arnold would have taken the same position on dues and politics if those teachers had been in favor of his plan? I don’t.

As for jobs moving out of the country - why is that the fault of the unions? Because they want a living wage and decent benefits for their workers? The huge corps that are leaving are doing it to increase profits. It’s okay if the workers can’t afford a decent life but far be it for their hefty salaries and bonuses to decrease. So they can get workers in other countries to word for $5 a day or less. Do you want to work for that? I didn’t think so. And, or course, the enviromental regs are practically nonexistent in these places so it’s okay for them to pollute the water and air. IMO, corps that do this should face heavy fines and taxes. They are not interested in the well being of the US, only in the well being of their bottom line.

Very well said. It was sad to see the airline workers lose their pensions and everything they fought for all those years. Now instead of a pension from United Airlines, they will get maybe twenty or thirty cents on the dollar from the government. Also GM just gave up 5 Billion dollars in healthcare insurance to help the company. A lot of people have retired counting on these benefits, and now they’re gone. It’s just not right.

 

[mjdonnelly]

davy39:

If what you say is true, the american worker is really caught between a rock and a hard place. The corporations after record profits, no matter what, and the unions fighting dwindling membership because of oursourcing of jobs to Mexico and China. If you go to any store, you will be hard pressed to find anything made in this country. But don’t blame it all on unions trying to get a living wage for its members. Many companies, while making good profits here, wanted more and more. I think that is called greed, and I believe you will find it on both sides of the table. Examples in my area. Huffy bicycles, to China. Rubbermaid, to Mexico, Ingersal-Rand, to Mexico, and the list goes on and on. We are in real trouble.

So you are ok with paying someone $30/hr for unskilled labor? Something that the person doesn’t even need to know how to read or write to be able to do.

That is what unions have done.

 

[davy39]

mjdonnelly:

So you are ok with paying someone $30/hr for unskilled labor? Something that the person doesn’t even need to know how to read or write to be able to do.

That is what unions have done.

I have news for you. Most of the “unskilled” labor do not make anywhere near $30. an hour. Not everybody works for the big three automakers. I worked for one of the largest candy companies in the country and made $12.50 when I retired. And I didn’t retire because I was young and rich. I am 66, and still have a part-time job. There a good many people who work asembly line work, or “unskilled” as you put it for between $8 and $12 an hour. Now you’re not going to be buying any BMW’s on those wages. Any union wage increases are the result of bargaining between the union and the company. As far as job skills, everybody has a certain skill, whether it be a pencil pusher, or a fork truck driver. People have a right to a LIVING wage, and we are losing that right these days. And it’s not all the unions fault, as you infer. That’s my point. Enough said.

 

[koda]

davy39:

I have news for you. Most of the “unskilled” labor do not make anywhere near $30. an hour. Not everybody works for the big three automakers. I worked for one of the largest candy companies in the country and made $12.50 when I retired. And I didn’t retire because I was young and rich. I am 66, and still have a part-time job. There a good many people who work asembly line work, or “unskilled” as you put it for between $8 and $12 an hour. Now you’re not going to be buying any BMW’s on those wages. Any union wage increases are the result of bargaining between the union and the company. As far as job skills, everybody has a certain skill, whether it be a pencil pusher, or a fork truck driver. People have a right to a LIVING wage, and we are losing that right these days. And it’s not all the unions fault, as you infer. That’s my point. Enough said.

Amen! I’ve already joined the Student California Teacher’s Association (for future teachers).

I will never understand why working people have no problem with other working people getting the shaft by big corps. I guess some people won’t get it until it’s their job and their pension.