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Redeemerslove
Guest
Then you deny the Torah and Tanakh.
- Status
R
Redeemerslove
Guest
Not to mention that religious people are far mentally healthier than people without religious involvement (i.e. atheists, practical atheists, agnostics, etc.). So much for his claim…
Source:
“…lack of religious involvement has been related to an increased risk of mortality even after controlling for the effects of various demographic, physical health factors, and other social support indicators” (Understanding the Nature and Role of Spirituality in Relation to Coping & Health: A Conceptual Framework, Terrylynn Gall, et. al., Journal of Canadian Psychology, May 2005).
“Koenig (1997) also found that clergy visits were related to positive outcomes for individuals with mental health problems” (ibid).
“Religion is associated with lowered rates of cigarette smoking, and alcohol and drug abuse, as well as certain mental illnesses such as depression” (ibid).
By Roy’s standard, they should become more mentally ill, not more mentally healthy.
R
Roy5
Guest
With God all things are possible. Yes, I believe that. At the same time over the years I have increasingly needed a reasonable and rational faith.
** This means, for example, that I don’t believe everything in the Bible literally.** Take Noah. Do I believe that God ordered him to build an ark, that he got two or every animal into that ark for 150 days until the waters receded, that he fed those animals and cleaned up after them, etc.? No, I don’t. Nor do I believe that our merciful, forgiving God would deliberately drown everyone on earth but eight people - including little children and even babies in the womb.
** Does this mean I toss out Christianity?**No. Sometimes it has been tempting because of other wild stories in the Bible. For example, did God actually order Saul to murder every living Amalekite and Joshua to slaughter all the inhabitants of Jericho? Of course not. Much of this is myth, legend, folklore. Some of it is arrogant, nationalist Hebrew history. Would I shout with the crowd" “Saul has killed his thousands but David has killed his ten thousands!” Give me a break. And making David such a hero when he raped Bathsheba, then had her husband killed on the battlefield! Talk about the ten commandments - thou shalt not covet, etc. And what about the wise Solomon with his 700wives and 300 concubines! Family values?
** You get my point. Well, I hope so.** Many of these stories, by the way, are as basic to Judaism as to conservative Christianity. I am not a part of that version of my faith. I try to stick with the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said: “Ye have heard it said. an eye for an eye…but I say unto you” - “ye have heard it said, love your neighbor but hate your enemy, but I say unto you…” That is the crux of my faith. I don’t for a second believe - another wild example - that God had two she-bears come out of the woods and maul 42 youth because they had mocked Elisha because of his bald head! (See II King 2:21ff if you’ve fogritten this crazy and sordid tale.)
**
All this is one reason why - though of mixed Catholic-Protestant heritage myself - I have had such trouble with traditional Catholicism and evangelical Protestantism.** I have found the freedom I need increasingly among mainline Protestants - Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, UCC, etc. - who allow wide variation in belief, leaving this up to the individual conscience. That is not for everybody. Many want and/or need an authoritative faith that demands conformity of belief. Fine. I respect that need. But over the years I have moved further and further away from insistence upon this dogma or that, and when I attend worship, whether at a Mass or at another house of worship, I don’t care whether they follow this procedure or that. And I don’t think God cares either. God looks at our hearts and not at our creeds or our church affiliation.
** This means, for example, that I don’t believe everything in the Bible literally.** Take Noah. Do I believe that God ordered him to build an ark, that he got two or every animal into that ark for 150 days until the waters receded, that he fed those animals and cleaned up after them, etc.? No, I don’t. Nor do I believe that our merciful, forgiving God would deliberately drown everyone on earth but eight people - including little children and even babies in the womb.
** Does this mean I toss out Christianity?**No. Sometimes it has been tempting because of other wild stories in the Bible. For example, did God actually order Saul to murder every living Amalekite and Joshua to slaughter all the inhabitants of Jericho? Of course not. Much of this is myth, legend, folklore. Some of it is arrogant, nationalist Hebrew history. Would I shout with the crowd" “Saul has killed his thousands but David has killed his ten thousands!” Give me a break. And making David such a hero when he raped Bathsheba, then had her husband killed on the battlefield! Talk about the ten commandments - thou shalt not covet, etc. And what about the wise Solomon with his 700wives and 300 concubines! Family values?
** You get my point. Well, I hope so.** Many of these stories, by the way, are as basic to Judaism as to conservative Christianity. I am not a part of that version of my faith. I try to stick with the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said: “Ye have heard it said. an eye for an eye…but I say unto you” - “ye have heard it said, love your neighbor but hate your enemy, but I say unto you…” That is the crux of my faith. I don’t for a second believe - another wild example - that God had two she-bears come out of the woods and maul 42 youth because they had mocked Elisha because of his bald head! (See II King 2:21ff if you’ve fogritten this crazy and sordid tale.)
**
All this is one reason why - though of mixed Catholic-Protestant heritage myself - I have had such trouble with traditional Catholicism and evangelical Protestantism.** I have found the freedom I need increasingly among mainline Protestants - Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, UCC, etc. - who allow wide variation in belief, leaving this up to the individual conscience. That is not for everybody. Many want and/or need an authoritative faith that demands conformity of belief. Fine. I respect that need. But over the years I have moved further and further away from insistence upon this dogma or that, and when I attend worship, whether at a Mass or at another house of worship, I don’t care whether they follow this procedure or that. And I don’t think God cares either. God looks at our hearts and not at our creeds or our church affiliation.
**But God bless everybody, of every creed, color, country and culture.** I wish and pray that we can make religion a bridge rather than a barrier. I believe Christ would want that, too. He didn't condemn the Samaritans for their 'heresies' but made the Good Samaritan a model for all of us. When Jesus was asked how to inherit eternal life, he answered by telling that powerful parable. It contains the very essense of our Christian faith and said nothing about dogma or belonging to a particular church.
J
joe370
Guest
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Have you studied the geneology of sinners in the family tree of Jesus?
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PJM
Guest
MY friend, you CAN still become and Informed and Practicing Catholic. The ONLY restriction that I am aware of is that neither of you may receive Holy Communion. Confession, Confirmation and the All -Important Sacrament of Last Rites are still available to you.=alison37;8599178]I am divorced and remarried (and so is my husband) and my conscience will not allow me to start the process of annulment. I have been a lifelong evangelical Protestant and my sadness at having the door to conversion to Catholicism effectively closed, is almost overwhelming. Those of you who were “born” into the Catholic faith don’t realize what a gift you were given. I would love to be a part of the Church.
And you can still receive “SPIRITUAL COMMUNION” by asking Jesus THROUGH the Holy Spirit to permit it.
If you have other questions please send me a private message, or just talk to a priest.
THANK YOU FOR THE WITNESS OF YOUR /OUR FAITH
God Bless you BOTH!,
Pat
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PJM
Guest
I just GOOGLED some info too. NOT surprised at your reaction the number of disclaimers in ASTOUNDING, but not surprising. If they CANNOT diprove Catholism they can NOT justifiy there man-made faiths.Sarah x
I have followed Padre Pio for a great many years and have heard testimonies of those who knew and lived with him.
THANKS for taking part. Your the FIRST civil athesist I have yet to encounter:thumbsup:
God Bless and may He grant you the gifts need to begain to understand.
Love and prayers,
Pat
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Erethorn
Guest
I’m what you folks call a cafeteria Catholic, because I have discovered and I believe that the Church has taught, in Council none the less, that:
a. Unbaptized children go to hell to be punished;
b. Anyone not under the authority of the Pope goes to hell;
c. All Jews and pagans go to hell;
d. Jews should be segregated and live in different quarters than Christians, and wear distinctive clothing;
etc.
I am also quite disturbed by the fact that Thomas Aquinas , who taught that the right way to deal with heretics is to have them killed, is a major saint in the CC.
I also fail to see, after a considerable amount of investigation, a real distinction between ABC and NFP, and therefore I believe the Church to be at the same time wrong and somewhat hypocrite in it’s ban of ABC.
And, most of all, I refuse to believe the Church teaching that a good person, such as family members of mine, would go to hell because they didn’t attend Mass every Sunday.
That being said, I still believe that the CC has got most of the Truth, and is on the right track of admitting it’s past errors and making up for them.
a. Unbaptized children go to hell to be punished;
b. Anyone not under the authority of the Pope goes to hell;
c. All Jews and pagans go to hell;
d. Jews should be segregated and live in different quarters than Christians, and wear distinctive clothing;
etc.
I am also quite disturbed by the fact that Thomas Aquinas , who taught that the right way to deal with heretics is to have them killed, is a major saint in the CC.
I also fail to see, after a considerable amount of investigation, a real distinction between ABC and NFP, and therefore I believe the Church to be at the same time wrong and somewhat hypocrite in it’s ban of ABC.
And, most of all, I refuse to believe the Church teaching that a good person, such as family members of mine, would go to hell because they didn’t attend Mass every Sunday.
That being said, I still believe that the CC has got most of the Truth, and is on the right track of admitting it’s past errors and making up for them.
C
Contarini
Guest
What do you find convincing or admirable about these testimonies? I haven’t studied Padre Pio very closely, but as I said I was distinctly put off by the one passage quoted above, and when I looked up some more information on him it seemed to confirm my doubts. Can you help me out? I know that officially Catholics are supposed to believe that canonization is infallible, and the more I look into Padre Pio the more I wonder if JPII didn’t jump the gun on this one.
Edwin
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PJM
Guest
So IF I understand the both of you. One “can” be a follower of Christ; WITHOUT ACTUALLY FOLLOWING CHRIST TEACHINGS:shrug:
Check out Fatima. and Lourdes for MORE recent Mircales.
As to your preposterous claims statement:
Matt.10: "And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb’edee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay."
Mark 2: 5 -12 “And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, **“My son, your sins are forgiven.” **[6] Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak thus? It is blasphemy! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question thus in your hearts? ***Which is easier, to say to the paralytic,
Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, Rise, take up your pallet and walk’? *** ***But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” – he said to the paralytic – ***[11] **“I say to you, rise, take up your pallet and go home.” And he rose, and immediately took up the pallet and went out before them all; **,”And Now to PRESENT TIMES:
John 20: 19-23 " On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. **As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” **And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
ALL OF THIS IS EVIDENT IN THIS SHORT PASSAGE
JOHN 14:16-17 IS FILFILLED
THE FIRST PENTECOST IS CLEBRATED
CHRIST FORMALLY INTRODUCES HIS NEW ONE GOD; ONLY ONE SET OF FAITH BELIEFS AND ONLY ONE FAITH ORGANIZATION [CATHOLISM 1,000 YEARS+ BEFORE PROTESTANTS]
JESUS TRANSFURES HIS ACTUAL AND REAL POWERS AND AUTHORITY TO PETER AND THE OTHER APOSTLES THROUGH PETER
THE SACRAMENT OF CONFIRMATION IS INSTITUTED
THE SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION /KNOWN FORGIVENESS OF SINS IS INSTITUTED BY CHRIST
Mt. 28:16-20 " Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”
THE NT ALONE HAS OVER 100 REFERENCES TO ONLY ONE GOD, FAITH, AND CHURCH,
John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. ***So there shall be one flock, one shepherd” ***
**Eph. 2:19-20 **“So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
**Eph. 3: 9-10 ** “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [singular] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. ***This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord," ***
So it would seem that Thomas is not alone in unbelief?
God Bless you,
Simply because you cannot understand it; does not make it untrue.
Pat
P
PJM
Guest
TRUTH Never changes: BUT
Times and Understanding do
As for Missing Mass, may I point out my frind that is One of the Commandments. God’s law, Not simply Church teaching
Exod.20: 8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exod.31: 13 "Say to the people of Israel, `You shall keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you. 14 "You shall keep the sabbath, because it is holy for you; every one who profanes it shall be put to death; whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 6 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the sabbath, observing the sabbath throughout their generations, as a perpetual covenant.
**
Lev.19: 13** “Every one of you shall revere his mother and his father, and you shall keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.30 You shall keep my sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD”.
Relefect on HOW MUCH God gives us and HOW little he commands in return.
God, not us determines what is RIGHT and Just.
God Bless my friend,
Send me a private message if you wish to discuss it further,
Pat
E
Erethorn
Guest
That sounds a lot like JW’s teaching about “new light”.
And that sounds a lot like Seventh Day Adventist teaching.
On another note: do you agree that it would be just for my father (who is a cradle Catholic) to go to hell because he, willingly and knowingly, doesn’t attend every Sunday Mass ?
P
PJM
Guest
I’m not sure what I can add other than the process involves a GREAt many real experts and that Canonazation requires two verifiable mircales and Medical experts testimonies.
The Church has a GREAT many Saints so one more or less makes less than no difference, so I do not see any motive making one up:shrug:
The medical opinions are often from non-Catholic faiths experts [not a mandate] but fairly common, just to make the evidence stronger. It then goes to a committee who makes the recomendation. The Pope CAN do it by himself; but that is EXTREMELY rare.
Sorry I can’t be of more assistance:blush:
God Bless,
Pat
P.S. Belief or unbelief is not a “salvation issue.”
D
David_Castlen
Guest
D
David_Castlen
Guest
God bless you honesty; now to courage:thumbsup:I am divorced and remarried (and so is my husband) and my conscience will not allow me to start the process of annulment. I have been a lifelong evangelical Protestant and my sadness at having the door to conversion to Catholicism effectively closed, is almost overwhelming. Those of you who were “born” into the Catholic faith don’t realize what a gift you were given. I would love to be a part of the Church.
A
ALotLessThumb
Guest
I think an aspect one should keep in mind when discussing the miraculous is that intellectually we are fully formed by the Enlightenment.
This does not mean that what happened in the past wasn’t miraculous or not outside of nature. There are still many phenomena that we can’t explain.
What I mean is that what one considers miraculous heavily depends on one’s mental paradigm and we have all been raised to trust in only the empirical. Whereas, the emerging of the Church through a Greco-Roman world had a paradigm that found everything to be miraculous. The pagans were notorious for taking everything to be a miracle. It was Christianity itself that disabused that notion. So we are now more incredulous and choose to ignore things that do not fit into our world schema or criteria for normal behaviors. We aren’t smarter or more perceptive than our antecedents, we are just using a different tool-set with its own strengths and weaknesses.
And what is considered normal now is what has been passed down through the Enlightenment- a heavy sense of “rationalism”, nominalism, empiricism, a mechanical view of things…even the language we use to discuss ethical subjects is heavily dosed in it (that is why arguments about ethics and morals in religion devolve into the “right set of rules” to follow- we are all nominalists in that sense.)
The reason why I am Catholic is because I recognize that Christ told his disciples to baptize all nations, which until his Second Coming, is a commission across the ages. The Church does not rest in the year 34 AD or 1217 AD or 2490 AD, it is constantly barring fruits from these baptisms by proclaiming the people of Christ who can be found following the Christian ethic: “to renounce the world, and differ in every temper and way of life, from the spirit and the way of the world: to renounce all its goods, to fear none of its evils, to reject its joys, and have no value for its happiness: to be as new-born babes, that are born into a new state of things: to live as pilgrims in spiritual watching, in holy fear, and heavenly aspiring after another life: to take up our daily cross, to deny ourselves, to profess the blessedness of mourning, to seek the blessedness of poverty of spirit: to forsake the pride and vanity of riches, to take no thought for the morrow, to live in the profoundest state of humility, to rejoice in worldly sufferings: to reject the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life: to bear injuries, to forgive and bless our enemies, and to love mankind as God loves them: to give up our whole hearts and affections to God, and strive to enter through the strait gate into a life of eternal glory.”
And that the tools of the nations, from Classical Greek metaphysics to Enlightenment rationality, are just that, tools that should be used to promote that ethic in full knowledge that these things will pass as the Lamb winds down the world to weeping.
This does not mean that what happened in the past wasn’t miraculous or not outside of nature. There are still many phenomena that we can’t explain.
What I mean is that what one considers miraculous heavily depends on one’s mental paradigm and we have all been raised to trust in only the empirical. Whereas, the emerging of the Church through a Greco-Roman world had a paradigm that found everything to be miraculous. The pagans were notorious for taking everything to be a miracle. It was Christianity itself that disabused that notion. So we are now more incredulous and choose to ignore things that do not fit into our world schema or criteria for normal behaviors. We aren’t smarter or more perceptive than our antecedents, we are just using a different tool-set with its own strengths and weaknesses.
And what is considered normal now is what has been passed down through the Enlightenment- a heavy sense of “rationalism”, nominalism, empiricism, a mechanical view of things…even the language we use to discuss ethical subjects is heavily dosed in it (that is why arguments about ethics and morals in religion devolve into the “right set of rules” to follow- we are all nominalists in that sense.)
The reason why I am Catholic is because I recognize that Christ told his disciples to baptize all nations, which until his Second Coming, is a commission across the ages. The Church does not rest in the year 34 AD or 1217 AD or 2490 AD, it is constantly barring fruits from these baptisms by proclaiming the people of Christ who can be found following the Christian ethic: “to renounce the world, and differ in every temper and way of life, from the spirit and the way of the world: to renounce all its goods, to fear none of its evils, to reject its joys, and have no value for its happiness: to be as new-born babes, that are born into a new state of things: to live as pilgrims in spiritual watching, in holy fear, and heavenly aspiring after another life: to take up our daily cross, to deny ourselves, to profess the blessedness of mourning, to seek the blessedness of poverty of spirit: to forsake the pride and vanity of riches, to take no thought for the morrow, to live in the profoundest state of humility, to rejoice in worldly sufferings: to reject the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life: to bear injuries, to forgive and bless our enemies, and to love mankind as God loves them: to give up our whole hearts and affections to God, and strive to enter through the strait gate into a life of eternal glory.”
And that the tools of the nations, from Classical Greek metaphysics to Enlightenment rationality, are just that, tools that should be used to promote that ethic in full knowledge that these things will pass as the Lamb winds down the world to weeping.
T
Telestia
Guest
I’m not a catholic because I believe Catholics would not want me to be a Catholic, primarily because I would be a stickler as to what the Scriptures actually and plainly states.
Eph 1:13 - 14.
**
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.**
Notice that Paul is writing in the past tense, It is a done deal. I am saved because I accepted these things Jesus has accomplished for me and I have the blood covering of the perfect Paschal Lamb, who takes away my sins in this world, Jesus my savior.
This is the gospel of Jesus Christ, the good news of Jesus Christ. God’s gift to each of us who believe this.
Now, I expect all Catholics to be in agreement with what I wrote, based on understanding of what these words I quoted or referenced from scripture. I have no reason to believe otherwise unless Catholics en mass post otherwise.
But this aside, I believe Catholics will reject me because I do not believe other things that apparently dearly held onto by the Catholic Church.
Matt 6:7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. ** NASU. And this is how I choose to pray.
For these 8 reasons in particular, I can not imagine any true Catholic would want me to become a Catholic.
What say you?
Telestia
- I believe I am saved because I believed the Messiah whom the Father sent, Jesus. Jesus came to become the perfect Lamb of God Whom takes away the sins of the world, He kept the entire Mosaic Law on my behalf, then Jesus took upon Himself the punishments that I deserved for my sins, when Jesus was mocked, spat upon, beaten, whipped with a whip that tore open His flesh, and nailed to a Cross, and it is His Blood, the Blood of the perfect Paschal Lamb of God, the final sacrifice made by God’s perfect Lamb, whose blood washes away all sins for all time, of we who believe this and accept His redeeming blood.
Eph 1:13 - 14.
**
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.**
Notice that Paul is writing in the past tense, It is a done deal. I am saved because I accepted these things Jesus has accomplished for me and I have the blood covering of the perfect Paschal Lamb, who takes away my sins in this world, Jesus my savior.
This is the gospel of Jesus Christ, the good news of Jesus Christ. God’s gift to each of us who believe this.
Now, I expect all Catholics to be in agreement with what I wrote, based on understanding of what these words I quoted or referenced from scripture. I have no reason to believe otherwise unless Catholics en mass post otherwise.
But this aside, I believe Catholics will reject me because I do not believe other things that apparently dearly held onto by the Catholic Church.
- I do not believe Mary is the Queen of Heaven or Earth or anything else.
- I believe that Mary and Joseph, Husband and Wife, bore children, the brothers and sisters of Jesus, whom are referenced numerous of times in the NT. Mary is indeed a very special and blessed women, a virgin, chosen by God to be the earthly mother of Jesus, who in reality precedes Mary, Just as Jesus preceded Abraham. The Greek words used in scripture clearly mean brother/sister. There is a totally separate word for Cousins.
- I believe that Jesus brother, James, was the first leader of the Christian Church, from Jerusalem. His piety and knowledge impressed many Jews in Judea.
- I believe Jesus alone is the cornerstone of the Christian Church, as is stated He would be in the OT scriptures, and even by Peter himself in his two letters agrees. BTW, I believe the Gospel of Mark is actually Peter’s Gospel.
- I do not believe that neither the Saints nor Mary are omnipresent or omniscient, so I do not see any reason to pray to them. IMO, Jesus gave us the proper way to pray:
Matt 6:7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. ** NASU. And this is how I choose to pray.
- What Catholics think of Mary is no business of mine, with one exception, If the Catholic Church ever declared Mary to be the co-redemptrix, or the co-mediator, this I would believe to be heresy.
- I believe Clergy should be allowed to Marry if they so desires to, and they may have children as they so desire, just as our Pastors have that choice.
- And finally, I believe God knew His Children before He laid the foundations of the universe (i.e. Cosmos), and the Kingdom, and we have been predestined to be purified in the Cosmos before we may enter the Kingdom. And this is why all Christians to be, will become a Christian when they hear Jesus voice, and that is why we are mandated to bring the Gospel of Jesus to all mankind, so that His children will hear His voice and come unto Him.
For these 8 reasons in particular, I can not imagine any true Catholic would want me to become a Catholic.
What say you?
Telestia
F
fbl9
Guest
all i can say is don’t be too upset when the Queen of Heaven meets you at the gate
C
Contarini
Guest
PJM,
JPII relaxed the requirements for canonization, and Padre Pio seems to have been one of the “beneficiaries” of this policy. Supposedly there’s a document from one of his “spiritual daughters” testifying that he asked for undiluted carbolic acid in secret, which does look a bit suspicious (there have been other claims that his wounds smelled of carbolic acid). Previous Popes seem to have regarded him with more suspicion.
If Wikipedia is correct, he is only one of two priests who ministered after Vatican II and have been canonized (this wikipedia passage looks like the insertion of a Traditionalist, but that doesn’t make it false). If there’s really such a shortage of canonizable priests in relatively modern times, your argument about “one more or less” seems a bit less convincing. And I’m not claiming that JPII or anyone else deliberately “made up” Padre Pio’s sainthood (there does seem to be some possibility that Padre Pio “made up” his stigmata). I worry that since JPII had a tendency (much commented on and criticized) to canonize people very readily, and since he had himself confessed to Padre Pio and been deeply impressed by him, and since he had a pretty clear tendency to be somewhat naive and overly charitable in his judgments of people he liked (witness Fr. Maciel), it is possible that he pushed for Padre Pio’s canonization (in all sincerity and good faith) in a way that short-circuited the wise precautions that are traditionally part of the process.
However, the “help” I was asking from you had more to do with your own reasons for being personally impressed with Padre Pio’s sanctity. What bothered me, as I said, about the link you posted is that the very reverential account of Padre Pio given there didn’t predispose me favorably to him at all. He came across as sly and manipulative–and this was in the account of a naive priest who was deeply devoted to him and clearly didn’t intend to give any such impression.
To put it simply: in what way does Padre Pio bring you closer to Jesus? What have you learned from him? I’m asking for what an evangelical would call a “testimony” more than for an argument (though I’m happy to hear arguments as well).
Edwin
- Status