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PJM
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PART TWO
**Eph.3: 9 to 12 ** “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him"
**2nd. Peter 3: 14-17 **“Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability
Eph. 1:13 “In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
**Eph.3: 9 to 12 ** “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him"
**2nd. Peter 3: 14-17 **“Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability
**1-3 ****Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ **is a child of God, and every one who loves the parent loves the child. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. **16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. **
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PJM
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****PART 3 to: CopticChristian AND Originally Posted by QuickCat **
WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT MAN CANNOT EARN SALVATION FROM WORKS ALONE. It is not saying works are not an essential element READ The Above Post James Chapter TWO.
John.13: 34 **“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another”
**Matthew 22: 35-40 ** “And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him. [JESUS] “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”
***We Can’t BUY salvation BUT we MUST MERIT IT in the manner Christ commands.
God Bless,
Pat***
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WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT MAN CANNOT EARN SALVATION FROM WORKS ALONE. It is not saying works are not an essential element READ The Above Post James Chapter TWO.
John.13: 34 **“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another”
**Matthew 22: 35-40 ** “And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him. [JESUS] “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”
***We Can’t BUY salvation BUT we MUST MERIT IT in the manner Christ commands.
God Bless,
Pat***
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joe370
Guest
**Roy5
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Belief that truth is relative?
Or, a symbolic interpretation of the Eucharist is fine, just as a literal interpretation of the Eucharist is also fine?
I suppose that would be easier if one viewed truth as relative, as opposed to absolute.
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Roy5
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CopticChristian
Code:
Unfortunately, I tossed out that Sunday bulletin some weeks ago. I seem to recall that Australia and New Zealand were two of the five, and the other three may have been in Scandinavia. But not sure.
By the way, how does the RCC regard the Coptic Orthodox? I have heard that they are monophysite, but that they deny it. I also understand that they have a Pope and believe that their first Pope was St. Mark of gospel fame.
I realize that you are a Coptic Catholic which is a smaller group of Egyptian Christians. Is there a good relationship between the two groups? I know that there are a few Coptic Protestants as well. Is there an American University in Cairo with some Protestant ties originally? Or am I confusing that with the American University in Beirut? It seems to me that Presbyterian mission activity may have been involved.
One other thing. How do the Ethiopian Coptics relate to those in Egypt? Do they differ in any significant way? And those in Somalia, also?
God bless all of his children, which I personally believe includes people of every creed, color, culture and country. Yes, this includes Muslims as well as Buddhists, Hindus, Jains, Sikhs, etc. I hope that someday we will give due respect to one another, to all those who seek to follow the Golden Rule and live by Matt. 25.
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CopticChristian
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adherents.com/loc/loc_australia.html#christian
Australia is 26.82% Catholic, 21.82% Anglican, 7.46% Uniting Church in Australia and 3.78 %Reformed, and 2.95% Orthodox.
New Zealand is 15% Catholic and 24% Anglican, Presbyterian are 10%
Scandanavia is 80% Lutheran
Scotland is the only Country where Calvinism is the predominant religion and it has the highest rate of suicide, divorce, addiction and alcoholism……The Church of Scotland, which is also known as The Kirk, is Scotland’s largest Christian denomination. It is recognised in law (by the Church of Scotland Act 1921) as the country’s national church though it is not an established church, being independent of state control in matters spiritual. The Church of Scotland is a Reformed church, with a Presbyterian system of ecclesiastical polity as determined in 1690.
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PJM
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NOT one time in the Bible or Tradition does God ever permit more than His Own [now entrusted to the CC] One set and ONLY one set of faith-beliefs. SO YOUR ON VERY TRECHERIOUS GROUND MY FRIEND.
FACT! Not everything in the Bible is FACTUAL, BUT EVERYTHING IS TRUE! Friend, please take most seriously the warning I share. The Powers and authority you USURP form the CC have you heading towards HELLNo-one, not even the Pope can decide how he will customize the one set of Faith beliefs of Christ, and then expect to get to heaven. NOT gonna happen!
God simplifies our choices to we will not be confused. {One Set of Key’s to heaven given to Peter and the CC] EITHER WE CAN BE INCHARGE OF OUR LIVES AND ETERNAL DECISSIONS OR GOD CAN BE. The Responsibility can’t be split.
Acts.20: 28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God [SINGULAR] which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.”
**John 10: 1-3 **"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, ***he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. ***
John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”
John 17:18-24 "***As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. "I do not pray for these only,*B] but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
May God grant you the humility and courage to actually FOLLOW what he Christ teaches.
Pat
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Roy5
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Let’s see. Australian Protestants outnumber Catholics. Ditto in New Zealand and in Scandinavia. As you likely know, Protestants move with ease from denomination to denomination. In one local church, the minister said to a newspaper reporter that only 15%of his congregation had been Methodist all their lives, that roughly 25% were former Catholics, and the rest were former Congregationalists, Presbyterians, no church, etc. I’m not sure that this is typical, but may be significant. There is a major split between mainline Protestants, who are more likely to be theologically diverse and open, and evangelical Protestants, who are - like Catholicism - more likely to emphasize ‘one way’ - their way.
** Yes, I know about the Presbyterians in Scotland.** Actually, I think the Queen is also head of the Church of Scotland and at least in a figurative sense changes her church affiliation when she goes to Scotland. Not sure about this. I visited the home of Knox a decade or so ago when I last was in Edinburgh. The landscape of Scotland is such that I can understand the pessimism that could take hold there. As I’m sure you know, Appalachia is full of people of Scotch-Irish descent. I’ve read somewhere that some Irish Catholic concern sent out curriculars to thousands with Irish surnames only to conclude that the majority of them today in the USA are Protestants! Doesn’t seem possible, but that was their conclusion.
** My paternal side is of French-Canadian Catholic heritage,** and I keep up with trends in Quebec, and visit there with some regularity. Our family tree includes the first Archbishop of Quebec. What has shocked me is the departure of French-Canadians from Catholicism, and even a deep-rooted hostility toward it. I wonder sometimes if there is a more secular area in the entire Christian world today than Quebec. The last I knew, the Catholic Church in my grandmother’s hometown had closed and was up for sale or rent. The visitors to St. Joseph’s Oratory in Montreal and St. Anne de Beaupre are a trickle compared to years ago. We have been to both shrines a number of times. What has happened? Some say a backlash because modern-day Quebecois think of the church as repressive in the past.
** But Coptic Christian - you haven’t answered my questions about the various Coptic Christians**. I was in Egypt and became more aware of them. Since I posted my questions to you, I did recall that both the American universities in Cairo and Beirut were founded by the Presbyterians. Back to Canada for a moment - interesting that the Methodists who were/are not Calvinists joined with the Presbyterians and Congregationalists who were/are Calvinists (and the Methodists were by far the largest of the three when union occurred). This illustrates how doctrine is secondary among most mainline Protestants. Few Presbyterians or Congregationalists are Calvinistic today. In the USA, of course, Congregationalists and the Evangelical and Reformed Church (German-background Calvinists) merged back in 1957 (I think that was the year) to form the United Church of Christ. probably the most liberal of mainline Protestant groups. The Unitarians are more liberal yet, but really can’t be included with the rest. Most Unitarians I know have this strange habit of considering themselves Protestants while resisting the idea that they are Christian! Curious.
** Yes, I know about the Presbyterians in Scotland.** Actually, I think the Queen is also head of the Church of Scotland and at least in a figurative sense changes her church affiliation when she goes to Scotland. Not sure about this. I visited the home of Knox a decade or so ago when I last was in Edinburgh. The landscape of Scotland is such that I can understand the pessimism that could take hold there. As I’m sure you know, Appalachia is full of people of Scotch-Irish descent. I’ve read somewhere that some Irish Catholic concern sent out curriculars to thousands with Irish surnames only to conclude that the majority of them today in the USA are Protestants! Doesn’t seem possible, but that was their conclusion.
** My paternal side is of French-Canadian Catholic heritage,** and I keep up with trends in Quebec, and visit there with some regularity. Our family tree includes the first Archbishop of Quebec. What has shocked me is the departure of French-Canadians from Catholicism, and even a deep-rooted hostility toward it. I wonder sometimes if there is a more secular area in the entire Christian world today than Quebec. The last I knew, the Catholic Church in my grandmother’s hometown had closed and was up for sale or rent. The visitors to St. Joseph’s Oratory in Montreal and St. Anne de Beaupre are a trickle compared to years ago. We have been to both shrines a number of times. What has happened? Some say a backlash because modern-day Quebecois think of the church as repressive in the past.
Code:
** In Canada. of course, Methodists, Congregationalists and most Presbyterian churches merged way back in 1925 to form the United Church of Canada**. The Protestant population is rather evenly divided between that UCC and the Anglicans, though - as in the USA - there has been an upsurge in 'non-denominational' churches with a fundamentalist and/or pentecostal flavor. This is most noticeable in Ontario and further west.
**Frankly, I consider all this rivalry between Christians as a waste of time and energy, nonsense and even sinful.** I'm sure that God must be saddened and even annoyed, too Matt. 25 tells us quite clearly that when it comes to eternal life, we will be judged by our Christian behavior and not by our doctrines or church affiliation. The parable of the Good Samaritan was told in answer to the direct question: "What must I do to inherit eternal life?" Gosh, the Samaritans were seen as heretics who disgusted the religious establishment at the time. Yet, Christ chose one of those outcasts as our model. I rather believe there's a lesson in that which should shame those who attach so much importance to our labels and/or our doctrines. My own view is that God alone knows the mysteries of the universe, and I'm content with that. God is God after all. We are called to live by simple faith, in the spirit of love, and not by knowledge. I Cor. 13. **God bless everybody**. It's time to bury the hatchet and focus on harmony among Christians and between Christians and other faiths. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier. I know that tribalism has a strong pull, whether in matters of faith, athletics or political parties, but in the arena of religion it should be subordinate to the Golden Rule.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Roy,
You trouble me with your misinformation. Compare and contrast what you wrote here and then compare to what I told you and your response.
You constantly find cups half empty not cups half full. The digression to other parts of the world that meet your pessimism and a digression to Coptics has no meaning in the context of your constant pessimism.
I do not like pessimism. I shun pessimistic people. You attitude speaks of that which is looking for a need to fulfill your world view. I have mentioned this to you before. I am not surrounded by pessimists and when I hear pessimisim I wonder why and what it is that drives that person. Only you know.
Try to write something that is positive, optimisitic, something that is truly as you say a Bridge. What you write does not do that.
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QuickCat
Guest
Mr. Coptic: May I ask you, to whom is the book of James written?So you agree with the Council of Orange and Trent.
Do you have a Scripture for having to “MERIT” [your emphasis] salvation.
QC
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CopticChristian
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Expedient Feline,
Clarify your question and the purpose of your question. What is it you are asking?
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bogeydogg
Guest
Because i do not believe in the transubstantiation, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, the infallibility of the Papacy when speaking ex cathedra, and that’s about it. But I intended to take RCIA this year but had health problems and could not. I will take it next year and be prepared to have my mind changed. AFter all I used to be Mormon and now a rigorously conservative Lutheran so who knows?Why are you not a Catholic?
God Bless
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Bless your honest journey. Where you are going only you know. Journey on.Because i do not believe in the transubstantiation, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, the infallibility of the Papacy when speaking ex cathedra, and that’s about it. But I intended to take RCIA this year but had health problems and could not. I will take it next year and be prepared to have my mind changed. AFter all I used to be Mormon and now a rigorously conservative Lutheran so who knows?
God Bless
C
Cat_Herder
Guest
If people’s actions have no bearing on salvation then everyone would be saved because
[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:3-4[/BIBLEDRB]
but that can’t be so, because
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 7:20-23[/BIBLEDRB]
therefore God wills everyone to be saved, but some people are not saved because
[BIBLEDRB]Hebrews 10:26-29[/BIBLEDRB]
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Izdaari
Guest
Agreed with all that, except that instead of a “rigorously conservative Lutheran”, I’m liberal-ish Pentecostal (but liberal for Pentecostal is still pretty conservative for most others). No immediate plans for RCIA but I may look into it.Because i do not believe in the transubstantiation, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, the infallibility of the Papacy when speaking ex cathedra, and that’s about it. But I intended to take RCIA this year but had health problems and could not. I will take it next year and be prepared to have my mind changed. AFter all I used to be Mormon and now a rigorously conservative Lutheran so who knows?
God Bless
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PJM
Guest
=bogeydogg;8629541]Because i do not believe in the transubstantiation, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, the infallibility of the Papacy when speaking ex cathedra, and that’s about it. But I intended to take RCIA this year but had health problems and could not. I will take it next year and be prepared to have my mind changed. AFter all I used to be Mormon and now a rigorously conservative Lutheran so who knows?
And God permits [but not with out consequences] your powers [not a right] to do so.
IF you’d care to learn what we Catholic believe and Why and How, send me a private message. I can share with you that God is in charge and what he teaches.
God Bless,
PJM Pat
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bogeydogg
Guest
I already get your emails and they are helpful thank you.And God permits [but not with out consequences] your powers [not a right] to do so.
IF you’d care to learn what we Catholic believe and Why and How, send me a private message. I can share with you that God is in charge and what he teaches.
God Bless,
PJM Pat
God Bless
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reinamaria
Guest
i am a catholic on the fence but reonsidering my position of leaning toward catholicism since joining this site with so much hate regarding opinions on everything, even things that have nothing to do with the religion itself lol
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