I'm not a Catholic because

[PJM]

=bogeydogg;8641057]I already get your emails and they are helpful thank you.

God Bless

OOPS:blush: I shouda known that!

Tell and friend

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

=rain_bow;8641214]Because I was born and raised in a Muslim family and that’s why i am not a Catholic lol.

THANKS for your post.

But dear friend you and your family each have a SOUL. Heaven, hell, God and Eternity are all real. So IFyou’d like to learn about the Catholic Faith, and what we believe and WHY and HOW we are able to believe it. CHECK OUT MY BLOG. There are more than 70 really informative articles there.

If you have questions, send me a private message.

God Bless and THANKS again for your post:thumbsup:

Pat
PJM on the FORUM

 

[Cat_Herder]

A LETTER THAT I WOULD GIVE TO ANY COLLEGE-AGE PERSON CONSIDERING OR RECONSIDERING CATHOLICISM:

Disagreement is not the same thing as hate. I know they probably taught you in college that if you disagree with anyone, that means you are not intelligent, and so you need to be a morally relative sea sponge in order to graduate.

But that’s college.

In real life, there is good and evil, life and death war and peace, and so on. Those of us who are vigorously defending the Catholic Faith are doing so because we are sick and tired of war, death and evil and we know that only Jesus Christ in the Eucharist provides an antidote to these things.

If you choose to be a morally relative sea sponge, then you can expect that everyone who comes along will squeeze you. First the atheist professors will squeeze you by turning you against your parents and all of the lessons and virtues they entrusted to you. Then your equally sea-sponged boyfriend or girlfriend will squeeze you by using you for only one thing; after all, if you don’t have a soul, you’re just a body. Then you’ll go to the “we’re just Christian” church because you think church will fix your broken heart, yet you don’t want to believe all the Catholic “dogma” because then you’d have to give up being a sea sponge. But then the “just Christians” will squeeze you because they will get you to “speak in tongues” and tell you that all your problems will go away if you just go on speaking in tongues (and giving them money). Which of course, isn’t true. Then you’ll go out with your sea-sponge friends, but they’ll just squeeze you by setting you up with yet another sea-sponge boy/girlfriend who only wants one thing.

At some point you’re going to have to stand up and refuse to be squeezed. And that is going to mean that all of the people who enjoyed squeezing you will turn against you. And that is the price you pay for freedom. They weren’t really your friends; they wanted to use you for their own pleasure and pecuniary interests. But you’re going to need help to stand up to the squeezers.

For two thousand years, the Catholic Church has been the home of those who refuse to be squeezed by the world. Catholics recognize that God did not create man to be a morally relative sea sponge, but that man was created to do and to be GOOD, and that it is evil to manipulate people in the way that the world is so fond of doing. All those sea-sponge people you meet in college are fond of paying lip service to saving whales and trees and chickens from evil human beings. But the Catholic Church takes human beings and makes them good by making them like God, again, through the Holy Eucharist. A good man will not only save whales, trees and chickens, but will also save his or her fellow men and women from the evils of the world. Look at Mother Teresa, St. Vincent de Paul, San Martin de Porres, and the countless further proofs that Catholicism works and Marxism doesn’t.

Humans are not the problem. Humans are the solution, but humans must choose to be part of the solution. The doors of the Ark are open; get out of the sea of sin and get on board.

 

[rain_bow]

THANKS for your post.

But dear friend you and your family each have a SOUL. Heaven, hell, God and Eternity are all real. So IFyou’d like to learn about the Catholic Faith, and what we believe and WHY and HOW we are able to believe it. CHECK OUT MY BLOG. There are more than 70 really informative articles there.

If you have questions, send me a private message.

God Bless and THANKS again for your post:thumbsup:

Pat
PJM on the FORUM

Thanks, I will check your blog soon . And yes, indeed I have interest to learn Christianity, but only because of my thirst for knowledge about different culture, not for spirituality,atleast I think it for now. if you saw my profile, indeed you know that I am non religious. But thanks a lot for your invitation to learn about Catholicism. I really appreciate it

Peace and blessing to your soul too .

 

[QuickCat]

If people’s actions have no bearing on salvation then everyone would be saved because
[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:3-4[/BIBLEDRB]
but that can’t be so, because
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 7:20-23[/BIBLEDRB]
therefore God wills everyone to be saved, but some people are not saved because
[BIBLEDRB]Hebrews 10:26-29[/BIBLEDRB]

A dead person can’t merit anything! The lost are “dead in treaspasses and sins.” [Eph 2:1] The lost can’t understand Bible doctrine and our “gospel is hidden to them that are lost.” [2 Cor. 4:3].
To merit something means to earn it. Salvation is a free gift and can’t be earned. {Roman s 6:23b; Eph. 2:8,9]
A person doesn’t join a church to be saved. He is saved by grace [free gift] and is baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. [1 Cor. 12:13]
He is saved by believing the gospel by which one is saved. [1 Cor. 15:1-4]
QC

 

[Cat_Herder]

A dead person can’t merit anything! …
Salvation is a free gift and can’t be earned. {Roman s 6:23b; Eph. 2:8,9]
A person doesn’t join a church to be saved. He is saved by grace [free gift] and is baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. [1 Cor. 12:13]
He is saved by believing the gospel by which one is saved. [1 Cor. 15:1-4]
QC

In other words, you are saying that someone merits salvation by “believing the gospel.” You’ve totally contradicted yourself.

 

[Albatross]

I’m not a catholic because I believe in the priesthood of all christians, a decentralized form of community. I’m also non-catholic because it is full of flagrant hypocracy, flaunting gold while the world starves. this is a link to a picture that displays my second point.

sodahead.com/united-states/forbes-ranks-70-most-powerful-people-of-2011-do-you-think-bill-gates-is-more-powerful-than-pope-ben/question-2264793/?page=5&link=ibaf&q=pope+chair+sell&imgurl=http://www.aaanything.net/wp-content/gallery/demotivate-october-2011/thumbs/thumbs_go_sell_everything_you_have_and_give_to_the_poor_mark_10_21_pope_on_golden_chair.jpg

 

[Cat_Herder]

I’m not a catholic because I believe in the priesthood of all christians, a decentralized form of community.

The Catholic Church also believes in a priesthood of all believers, but that does not mean that everyone is an elder.

I’m also non-catholic because it is full of flagrant hypocracy, flaunting gold while the world starves.

Where is that gold? Not at the Vatican.

Every Catholic Diocese, parish and program has an open balance sheet that anyone can view and which is disclosed once a year. Here’s the one from the Diocese of San Antonio’s Pastoral Center. Go to page 3 and look at how much of that money goes to poor people.

The reason why the Catholic Church can’t do more for the poor is because of people like you who proselytize against the Church and so cause good people to leave. Stop talking and start walking.

 

[David_Castlen]

because i do not believe in the transubstantiation, the perpetual virginity of mary, the assumption of mary, the infallibility of the papacy when speaking ex cathedra, and that’s about it. But i intended to take rcia this year but had health problems and could not. I will take it next year and be prepared to have my mind changed. After all i used to be mormon and now a rigorously conservative lutheran so who knows?

God bless

god bless you bogeydogg. I love that name; why did you choose it?

 

[PJM]

=rain_bow;8647028]Thanks, I will check your blog soon . And yes, indeed I have interest to learn Christianity, but only because of my thirst for knowledge about different culture, not for spirituality,atleast I think it for now. if you saw my profile, indeed you know that I am non religious. But thanks a lot for your invitation to learn about Catholicism. I really appreciate it

Peace and blessing to your soul too .

Let me know if you have any questions,

God Bless you,

Pat

 

[QuickCat]

In other words, you are saying that someone merits salvation by “believing the gospel.” You’ve totally contradicted yourself.

Only in your mind. I never said that “one merits” salvation…! God does the saviing. The saved person has just believed a God who can not lie - that is non-meritorius on the believer’s part. Believing is not a work! Are you one of the people described in 2 Cor. 4:3? If you are trying to work your way to heaven you’ll never make it. Romans 4:4. I pray not!

 

[Cat_Herder]

Only in your mind. I never said that “one merits” salvation…! God does the saviing.

If God does the saving then why does the person have to do anything at all?

The saved person has just believed a God who can not lie - that is non-meritorius on the believer’s part.

So if the person doesn’t believe the right thing, they go to hell? Then how can a baby or a child below the age of reason be saved? How can a mentally infirm person be saved? How can someone who through no fault of their own never learns of the Gospel be saved?

 

[QuickCat]

If God does the saving then why does the person have to do anything at all?

So if the person doesn’t believe the right thing, they go to hell? Then how can a baby or a child below the age of reason be saved? How can a mentally infirm person be saved? How can someone who through no fault of their own never learns of the Gospel be saved?

[1] 1 Cor 15:1-4 the gospel by which one is daved
[2] God will save the baby and the mentally challenged
[3] If, at the point of (age) of reason one seeks a relationship with God by going on positive volition toward Him,. God is obligated to get the gospel to him. And He will! Example: Dr. Livingston in Africa. Doesn’t nature itself teach you that there is a God?

 

[Cat_Herder]

[1] 1 cor 15:1-4 the gospel by which one is daved
[2] god will save the baby and the mentally challenged
[3] if, at the point of (age) of reason one seeks a relationship with god by going on positive volition toward him,. God is obligated to get the gospel to him. And he will! Example: Dr. Livingston in africa. Doesn’t nature itself teach you that there is a god?

Where is the age of reason in the Bible?
Uh oh spaghetti-o!

 

[PJM]

=QuickCat;8649165]Only in your mind. I never said that “one merits” salvation…! God does the saviing. The saved person has just believed a God who can not lie - that is non-meritorius on the believer’s part. Believing is not a work! Are you one of the people described in 2 Cor. 4:3? If you are trying to work your way to heaven you’ll never make it. Romans 4:4. I pray not!

Salvation friend is a PROCESS that in an apsolute sense requires AMNY differernt elements. For example:

Salvation requires in an absolute sense all of these elements

Grace: Tit.2: 11 “For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men”

Faith: Rom.1: 16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel: it is the power of God for salvation to every one who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”

Christian Baptism: John 3:5 “Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

FULL- Obedience: to God, to All of the Commandments, to Gods CC and its leaders and ALL that She teaches and Good Works

FULL- Obedience: **Mt. 19:17 ** “…. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."… John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him” 2 Thess. 1: 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might” Mt.7: 21 "Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. **Heb.13:17 **“Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you [THIS MEANS THE POPE AND THE CC] … **Eph. 2:19-20 **“So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple [SINGULAR] in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”…**Luke 10:16 **“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” **MT. 28:16-20 “**Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him; And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” … **John 20:21-22 **“Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” [Christ ACTUAL Powers and AUTHORITY} And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them,[COLOR=“red”] “Receive the Holy Spirit” … **Mt. 16:18-19: **“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” …Acts 20: 28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of the LORD” [Singular] Romans 13: 2 “Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”

MUST NOT DIE With unconfessed / un forgiven Mortal sins: Jn. 20:22-23 “ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ***“Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” ***

Good Works: James 2: 13-23 “For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy; yet mercy triumphs over judgment. What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. … ***You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, …You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.” ***

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder
If God does the saving then why does the person have to do anything at all?

So if the person doesn’t believe the right thing, they go to hell? Then how can a baby or a child below the age of reason be saved? How can a mentally infirm person be saved? How can someone who through no fault of their own never learns of the Gospel be saved?

THIS DESERVES A FULLER ANSWER:
“Person not believing the right thing”

YES this will send a person to hell. Here is why and here also is the single exception.

Because God is Good; God MUST be Fair and Just.

This means two important things: 1. God obligates Himself to make available sufficient grace for everyone in the world to “know of Him.” 2. We then are morally obligated to accept this grace and apply it fully by Knowing, Loving, OBEYING FULLY, and serving God. God has insured that everyone can know Him through two obvious things: “Good” exist because God exist. And man can if we are hionest with ourselves; know God through Creation itself.

In this age of communications it is RARE that anyone cannot with errfot discover the truth. This FORUM itself is a GREAT evidence of this,as are the Bible [if rightly understood] and the CC to whom God gives the mandate to teach the world. Then warrants Her Teaching on everything that MUST be accepted and believed and ALL Moral teachings. **Mt. 16:15-19, Mt. 28:16-20, Jn. 14:16-17; Jn.17:15-19; Jn. 20:19-23] **and many other evidenes are available.

THE SINGLE EXCEPTION TO THIS IS IF SOMEONE FOR VALID [GOD JUDGES] REASONS CANNOT KNOW HIM OR OF HIM. Countries under persecutuion for example.

Those who cannot know God because of Age or mental capacity have no real opportunity to actually know of God or to Know-God. The predominate current thinking is that through the merits of the CC, or the desire of parents or loved ones that these folks receive “Baptism of Desire.” FOR SURE THEY DO NOT GO TO HELL!

They may??? God to Limbo BUT definately do not go to Hell! I too am of the opinion that they receive the nevessary merits through the Graces and Powers GRANTED By God to his Only Faith / Only Church

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Cat_Herder]

It goes without saying that PJM is correct. However, I’m asking QuickCat, who holds to sola scriptura, to tell me:

(1) Where does the Bible say there is an age of reason?
(2) Where does the Bible say that children lose their salvation at the age of reason unless they come to right belief?
(3) If these things are not in the Bible then why does QuickCat believe them?

 

[QuickCat]

Where is the age of reason in the Bible?
Uh oh spaghetti-o!

You used it. You tell me. BTW, why don’t you stop the silly willy stuff? It is absolutely essential that you know the gospel that saves. If you are saved then we are brothers in Christ. If you aren’t saved I have showed you the Biblical road to salvation and pray that you will take a serious look.

 

[Cat_Herder]

You used it. You tell me.

Neither I nor PJM hold to Sola Scriptura/Bible alone. You do.

You need to either justify your beliefs in an intelligent conversation, or get outta here.

 

[christian7777]

It’s been a long time since I posted here…

Anyway, I don’t think I can become a Catholic because I don’t believe that the soul is inherently immortal. From what I know, this is considered heresy in the Roman Catholic Church, or at least used to be.