I'm not a Catholic because

[PJM]

=theidler;8737135]You know, that’s a pretty solid answer friend. I like your honesty.
And yes, I see some falling into empty ritualism too, though I try my hardest not to judge whether they are in fact going through the motions, or whether it just appears that way. Regardless, one must always be wary of any kind of spiritual indifference, be it through ritualistic ruts, or pure laziness when it comes to prayer, or the like.

There are over ONE BILLION Catholics world wide. Certaintly in the times we live, one is going to find differing levels of understanding and the right or incomplete practice of our faith.

I have NEVER * and have taught our faith at many levels to kids, young adults and adults, and have NEVER once met a catholic who was more concerned about “obeing the Church” than obeying God. There is a very SOLID reason for this beause they ought to be the same

We simply cannot judge others motives. Many catholics do participate at Mass without DUE consideration for what is taking place and in WHOSE PRESENCE we are; perhaps that is what you mean? BUT being there because they choose ot obey God’s commandment to do so is by itself of some grace value; although they are MISSING a great deal. hat my friends, is God’s and the Pastors worry.

God Bless,
Pat*

 

[Whadyamean]

There are over ONE BILLION Catholics world wide. Certaintly in the times we live, one is going to find differing levels of understanding and the right or incomplete practice of our faith.

I have NEVER * and have taught our faith at many levels to kids, young adults and adults, and have NEVER once met a catholic who was more concerned about “obeing the Church” than obeying God. There is a very SOLID reason for this beause they ought to be the same

We simply cannot judge others motives. Many catholics do participate at Mass without DUE consideration for what is taking place and in WHOSE PRESENCE we are; perhaps that is what you mean? BUT being there because they choose ot obey God’s commandment to do so is by itself of some grace value; although they are MISSING a great deal. hat my friends, is God’s and the Pastors worry.

God Bless,
Pat*

When are we ever not in that PRESENCE??? Without it you could not draw a portion of a breath.

 

[PRmerger]

When are we ever not in that PRESENCE??? Without it you could not draw a portion of a breath.

There are many ways to think about His Presence, Whadya.

Just like we speak about the presence of our loved ones being with us all the time, even when we’re away traveling. Just google “My family is with me in spirit”. bigredcouch.com/journal/?p=284

However, there is a huge difference between our families being present in our hearts when we travel and being physically present with them in the same room.

 

[Whadyamean]

There are many ways to think about His Presence, Whadya.

Just like we speak about the presence of our loved ones being with us all the time, even when we’re away traveling. Just google “My family is with me in spirit”. bigredcouch.com/journal/?p=284

However, there is a huge difference between our families being present in our hearts when we travel and being physically present with them in the same room.

Of course that is so. And in Church, the building, I can, or used to, feel that I could be “closer,” because there were fewer distractions pulling at me. Certainly that is so for many. And there is the feeling, as well, if one is sensitive to it, of the accumulated devotions that have taken place in such a space. And yet, in fact, there is no more or less PRESENCE on the battlefield or in a sinner. It is a mater of where the attention is. “Where your attention is, there am I.” That is a difficult one to wrap your mind around when we are trained to be judge-mental. But see if it isn’t ultimately true, to the point where you are never out of Church or out of that PRESENCE in your feeling nature.

 

[Whadyamean]

Gosh Whady, I’m sorry for that uncharitable interpretation. It really isn’t like me to give up on dissenters , they are actually pet subjects on my prayer list,I trust God for them no matter if it takes till purgatory with some mixed up believing.
Peace, Carlan

That’s great Carlan. Thanks for a good laugh!

 

[PRmerger]

Of course that is so. And in Church, the building, I can, or used to, feel that I could be “closer,” because there were fewer distractions pulling at me. Certainly that is so for many. And there is the feeling, as well, if one is sensitive to it, of the accumulated devotions that have taken place in such a space. And yet, in fact, there is no more or less PRESENCE on the battlefield or in a sinner. It is a mater of where the attention is. “Where your attention is, there am I.” That is a difficult one to wrap your mind around when we are trained to be judge-mental. But see if it isn’t ultimately true, to the point where you are never out of Church or out of that PRESENCE in your feeling nature.

Despite your spelling (and grammar) overall, I understand what you’re saying.

And you are incorrect. There is a difference between being on the battlefield and feeling God’s presence, and being in a Catholic Church, where the Numinous Dwells in the Holy of Holies, the Tabernacle. This is an ancient understanding, surpassing even Christianity. (See Exodus, 2 Chronicles et al).

 

[struggling3]

Because the church does not welcome my husband and I of 22 years because we were not married in the church. And our first marriages were in the church. Annulments are out of the question as we have lost touch with our first spouses and we do not plan to live as brother and sister.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Because the church does not welcome my husband and I of 22 years because we were not married in the church. And our first marriages were in the church. Annulments are out of the question as we have lost touch with our first spouses and we do not plan to live as brother and sister.

Our sincerest sympathies. Welcome to the forums, BTW.

Where, if not the Catholic Church, did two people who were both once in Catholic marriages, get married? If it is so very important (I sense that it is), it looks like you two will somehow have to track down your spouses and try to get an annulment. Talk to your parish priest, or a bishop. Perhaps they can help.

 

[PRmerger]

Because the church does not welcome my husband and I of 22 years because we were not married in the church. And our first marriages were in the church. Annulments are out of the question as we have lost touch with our first spouses and we do not plan to live as brother and sister.

Unfortunately, struggling, if you are already married to another man then you cannot marry your current husband. Those are the words of Jesus and the Catholic Church does not have the authority to change or edit the message of Jesus to make it more palatable.

These are hard words to hear, I know. And I would love to tell you, “Come and live as you like!” but, alas, I, too, cannot change what Jesus has so very specifically said.

 

[CMatt25]

Unfortunately, struggling, if you are already married to another man then you cannot marry your current husband. Those are the words of Jesus and the Catholic Church does not have the authority to change or edit the message of Jesus to make it more palatable.

These are hard words to hear, I know. And I would love to tell you, “Come and live as you like!” but, alas, I, too, cannot change what Jesus has so very specifically said.

PR, I have no idea the details of Struggling’s and her current husband’s divorces. Neither are the details any of my business. But I do know Jesus specifically said if fornication was a reason and another marriage occurs, adultery is not committed. Matt 19:9 “And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery”. Of course even the sin of adultery can be forgiven. In any case I can’t help but wonder if Struggling and her 2nd husband can not find their first spouses, WWJD?

 

[CMatt25]

There are over ONE BILLION Catholics world wide. Certaintly in the times we live, one is going to find differing levels of understanding and the right or incomplete practice of our faith.

That many? Is that according to the Church? And they can all identify as such?

 

[PRmerger]

PR, I have no idea the details of Struggling’s and her current husband’s divorces.

Yes, you are correct. And the default position is to assume that one’s first marriage is valid until proven otherwise.

If that’s not the default position then all of us (married folks) must worry every day whether our marriage is valid, yes?

Neither are the details any of my business.

Indeed.

But I do know Jesus specifically said if fornication was a reason and another marriage occurs, adultery is not committed. Matt 19:9 “And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery”. Of course even the sin of adultery can be forgiven.

My understanding is that porneia means illicit marriage, which is incorrectly translated as “fornication” or “adultery”.

And think about this, Matt, if Jesus gives us permission to divorce if we commit adultery, then…well, all I’d need to do if I want to divorce my husband and marry my new sweetheart would be to…

sleep with my new honey?

Really? Does that sound like something Jesus would give us permission to do? “PR, you want a divorce, so go ahead and commit adultery, and then you can, with My permission, now divorce your DH!”

In any case I can’t help but wonder if Struggling and her 2nd husband can not find their first spouses, WWJD?

What would he do? Well, we have Jesus’ own words to tell us: “What God has joined, let no man put asunder”–Mark 10:9.

 

[ILikeToBeCathol]

I’m not a Catholic because the Easter Vigil hasn’t arrived yet

Lol, nice one man.
I was gunna’ have to wait til’ the Easter vigil as well but I was able to be baptized and to receive first Holy Communion several days ago on the 21st of this month and I’m waiting for the Sacrament of Confirmation on the 12th of January just a couple of weeks away. I’m still in the RCIA program though at my local parish but the reason I was able to be received into the Catholic Church earlier is because I went to another parish that is Latin-Tridentine Rite and after about 3 months of intense instruction (training lol) I was baptized… God bless the priests of FSSP.

God love you
Pax Christi

 

[ILikeToBeCathol]

Well… I am a Catholic because history tells us that the Catholic Church is the first church and if it’s the first church it is also obviously the only Church founded and established by Jesus Christ.

 

[Whadyamean]

Despite your spelling (and grammar) overall, I understand what you’re saying.

And you are incorrect. There is a difference between being on the battlefield and feeling God’s presence, and being in a Catholic Church, where the Numinous Dwells in the Holy of Holies, the Tabernacle. This is an ancient understanding, surpassing even Christianity. (See Exodus, 2 Chronicles et al).

And if I am not mistaken, God IS before all of that. Right? God IS, as well, before any thjoughts about God.

 

[PJM]

=Whadyamean;8739362]When are we ever not in that PRESENCE??? Without it you could not draw a portion of a breath.

***Yes my friend;

But you’re speaking of “Spiritual presence” while I as a Catholic am speaking of Jesus in His Now Glorified Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. REALLY Jesus in Person. And that y friend is thee single most im portant reason to NOT be a wondering "catholic:

If you’d like a fuller explaination send me a private message.

God Bless you,
Pat***

 

[bogeydogg]

And if I am not mistaken, God IS before all of that. Right? God IS, as well, before any thjoughts about God.

But God has promised to dwell with His people in a very special way in His Church. This flows out from His presence forst in the Tabernacle and the Temple. We are with with God spiritually only, we are with God in Hid Body in His Church. When we eat the Table we are eating the flesh of our God, and that is far, far more than a simple, “God is everywhere and before all things.”

We do not simply say that God is in all and before all because God has promised to be with us and the fulfillment of it is His bodily presence before us in His Body the Church.

God Bless

 

[PRmerger]

And if I am not mistaken, God IS before all of that. Right? God IS, as well, before any thjoughts about God.

Amen! This is very Catholic of you to say, Whadya!

'Tis a non-sequitur, but true nonetheless.

God IS, of course. But He is physically present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in all Catholic (and Orthodox) tabernacles throughout the world. Not on the battlefields. Not in your heart. Not in nature. Only in the Tabernacles.

 

[PJM]

=bogeydogg;8741959]But God has promised to dwell with His people in a very special way in His Church. This flows out from His presence forst in the Tabernacle and the Temple. We are with with God spiritually only, we are with God in Hid Body in His Church. When we eat the Table we are eating the flesh of our God, and that is far, far more than a simple, “God is everywhere and before all things.”

We do not simply say that God is in all and before all because God has promised to be with us and the fulfillment of it is His bodily presence before us in His Body the Church.

God Bless

***Yes he Did, and Yes he does

The issue is what “church” is He speaking of and the ANSWER is ONLY today’s Catholic Church.

This we KNOW because the Bible was completely written by the end of the 1st. century and the ONLY church in existence in the world at this time was and IS; today’s CC. And this Special way in in the MOST Holy Eucharist: Christ REAL PRESENCE!

---

God Bless,
Pat

 

[CMatt25]

Yes, you are correct. And the default position is to assume that one’s first marriage is valid until proven otherwise.

If that’s not the default position then all of us (married folks) must worry every day whether our marriage is valid, yes?

My understanding is that porneia means illicit marriage, which is incorrectly translated as “fornication” or “adultery”.

And think about this, Matt, if Jesus gives us permission to divorce if we commit adultery, then…well, all I’d need to do if I want to divorce my husband and marry my new sweetheart would be to…

sleep with my new honey?

Really? Does that sound like something Jesus would give us permission to do? “PR, you want a divorce, so go ahead and commit adultery, and then you can, with My permission, now divorce your DH!”

What would he do? Well, we have Jesus’ own words to tell us: “What God has joined, let no man put asunder”–Mark 10:9.

While I’m not sure why you would need to worry everyday, PR, if your marriage has not been put away via a divorce, it appears to me you are saying the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition is incorrectly translated since that’s the version I quoted Jesus’ own words from. Which Catholic version then has the correct translation in your view?