I'm not catholic but I'm dating one. I need some advice

[lizaanne]

I don’t even want to ask about this yet but what would I even say? She will definitely ask me why. I would have to tell her to some capacity. I imagine she would feel conflicted and possible resentment.

I seriously think you need to back up the truck and just sloooooooow down. Stop thinking about sex so much. Honestly - what would happen if you got married to ANYONE and they (or you) were suddenly ill or injured and could never have sex? Would that be the end of the marriage? I certainly hope not.

So – put the sex away, it’s not an issue right now, so don’t let it become one. I was very serious when I said to talk to her about her faith. Eventually the conversation will come around to sex, when it comes around to marriage, because you can’t have one without the other.

Nothing has to happen right away. Just get to know her more, learn more about her faith, and eventually you will have your questions answered.

Patience. We call it a virtue.

~Liza

 

[Leegal]

Thats the thing I don’t want to bring her down at all. And I’m thinking that regardless of other concerns, the simple fact that I’m not as involved would take her down because I have to get to her level to add something. I love hearing about her devotion to the faith. It makes her so happy and fulfills her and that makes me happy. I respect her faith, I just don’t understand or agree with all the teachings. Like the completion inside a woman. I read a pope once said you can fly from the ceiling fan if you want but have to finish in the woman’s body. I mean it happens to men in their sleep without their control. Sure it is unintentional, but letting it go without attention leads to this uncontrollable behavior while asleep. And after the marital act is completed “naturally” there is always going to be some ‘waste’ at the end because nothing is air tight. Do you just clean it up and flush it down the toilet? Can you do with it as you please after? It sounds crude but it is a source of my misunderstanding.
I’ve tried finding documents on the subject but it seems as though even practicing Catholics that are exposed to this material more often still have questions.

As long as you finish inside the woman directed toward the womb. The act is sacred. The ejaculate is to be directed to the womb. Foreplay is different, as long as you don’t intend that the foreplay become the act in and of itself – of course things do happen sometimes, but that is not the objective.

Nocturnal emissions are never sinful.

And, yes, of course you clean up after.

I meant to post this reply – what I posed before was the question.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8786644&postcount=2

 

[lizaanne]

The ejaculate is to be directed to the womb.

Please show me, where in the world did you get this from? Nowhere does it say, nor does the Church teach, that the ejaculate “is to be directed to the womb”. You either made that up or you are misinformed. The Church teaches only that the man must finish inside his wife. Period.

To go giving people instruction that is beyond the teaching of the Church only pushes them further away, confuses and clouds the issue.

Sorry OP - this is NOT true. The only requirement with regard to the completion of sex, is that the sex act must complete within the woman, that’s all.

~Liza

 

[Leegal]

Please show me, where in the world did you get this from? Nowhere does it say, nor does the Church teach, that the ejaculate “is to be directed to the womb”. You either made that up or you are misinformed. The Church teaches only that the man must finish inside his wife. Period.

To go giving people instruction that is beyond the teaching of the Church only pushes them further away, confuses and clouds the issue.

Sorry OP - this is NOT true. The only requirement with regard to the completion of sex, is that the sex act must complete within the woman, that’s all.

~Liza

Well, inside the female where else would the ejaculate be directed to but toward the cervix of the womb? This means that withdrawal or pulling out is prohibited.

 

[lizaanne]

Well, inside the female where else would the ejaculate be directed to but toward the cervix of the womb?

Of course the ejaculate is going to be directed toward the womb, the penis doesn’t go in sideways!

This means that withdrawal or pulling out is prohibited.

Then why didn’t you just say that?

You said: "As long as you finish inside the woman directed toward the womb. "

This suggest that there is some other “direction” to send the ejaculate.

Sorry - but when you are talking about what the Church teaches on a subject, precision is a bit important.

~Liza

 

[musicality]

Don’t sell yourself short. There are obvious reasons why the two of you are attracted to each other and you seem to respect her greatly.

So, date with a purpose - discerning whether or not marriage is appropriate for the two of you. Do not assume, just because you are worried that it is not, but be sure to mention your concerns throughout the discernment process.

If you are willing to learn more from her and legitimate sources like this website, I think that you will find the right answers to your questions.

 

[vsedriver]

the whole point of dating is to discern whether or not a person is a good spousal match. You first need to decide what kind of life you want to live. You can really, really like someone, you can even love someone and discern that together you are not a good match. Religion plays a major role in some people’s lives. You can’t just ‘go along’. It will eventually drive you nuts.

If this woman is a devout Catholic then she needs a devout Catholic spouse. Love can do crazy things to your head so I think you are the one to help her see that she should be seeking a Catholic spouse.

Your other choice is to temporarily cool things with her and study Catholicism. That way you’ll learn the reasoning behind the Church’s ‘rules’. Understanding can open a whole new world for you and show you how to deepen your relationship with God so that controlling your sex drive becomes empowering and not a punishment.

 

[Leegal]

Of course the ejaculate is going to be directed toward the womb, the penis doesn’t go in sideways!

Then why didn’t you just say that?

You said: "As long as you finish inside the woman directed toward the womb. "

This suggest that there is some other “direction” to send the ejaculate.

Sorry - but when you are talking about what the Church teaches on a subject, precision is a bit important.

~Liza

The actual term is “directed toward procreation” – where else does procreation take place but when the sperm has the possibility to enter the womb through the cervix, which is inside of the female? Obviously, there is no other way to “direct” anything unless one pulls out or withdraws. The “directed toward the womb” is obvious.

 

[vsedriver]

It wouldn’t be horrible if I became Catholic. My relationship with God has been growing again since a large period of doubt. I guess it is my problem with the sexual regulations. I hate to admit. I really do. I’m not disgusting or anything but I’d just like to be more free.

trust me… even if you marry a woman who uses contraception you will face sporatic sex. Especially after a couple of kids.

Personally, I thought the anticipation of the countdown to the all clear days heightened the sexual experience.

 

[James_Miller]

Of you are lead to the Catholic Church I think you will find your views and hers merging.

 

[Link0126]

The actual term is “directed toward procreation” – where else does procreation take place but when the sperm has the possibility to enter the womb through the cervix, which is inside of the female? Obviously, there is no other way to “direct” anything unless one pulls out or withdraws. The “directed toward the womb” is obvious.

not to get too crude here but there are different ways to “finish inside of the female”, I think he was referring only to vaginal intercourse when he was said “directed toward the womb”…

 

[Link0126]

Sex is only one part of a marriage and it’s only one part of us as human beings. It’s easy now days to place too much emphasis on it. We live in a highly sexualized society. This attitude has led to the widespread acceptance of contraception. Just look at the wonders it has done for modern marriage.

 

[PaperPlate]

So – put the sex away, it’s not an issue right now, so don’t let it become one. I was very serious when I said to talk to her about her faith. Eventually the conversation will come around to sex, when it comes around to marriage, because you can’t have one without the other.

Nothing has to happen right away. Just get to know her more, learn more about her faith, and eventually you will have your questions answered.

Patience. We call it a virtue.

~Liza

thank you for your post…
Since day one I’ve listened to her talk about her faith and have enjoyed every moment of it. I ask her, she initiates. I wouldn’t change it. I am very patient about sex but as was mentioned before, I don’t want to wait too long if there is something I see as a ‘problem’. I can wait it out as long as it takes (for the conversation to come up) but it will just be that much harder on us both. I’m not rushing anything and this is all out of respect for her, her faith, and me.

I seriously think you need to back up the truck and just sloooooooow down. Stop thinking about sex so much. Honestly - what would happen if you got married to ANYONE and they (or you) were suddenly ill or injured and could never have sex? Would that be the end of the marriage? I certainly hope not.

I think that is kind of an extreme situation. Any emergency can happen and thats what you deal with. For better or for worse. But just because there is a small chance something may happen doesn’t mean I’m going to commit to anything and everything (in the context of what we’re talking about).

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Let’s get down to brass tacks, as we say in the UK.

If you’re worried about not having enough sexual intercourse with your wife after you’re married (because, by the sounds of this lovely lady, you won’t be having intercourse before you’re married, will you…?)… then don’t.

NFP is the management of intercourse around a lady’s natural cycle, am I right?

Let’s take some rough numbers: if your wife is in her fertile period for, say, 5 or 6 days in every 28, with an allowance of a couple of days for ‘safety’, that means about 20 days a month are safe for intercourse.

I think 20 days EVERY month during which intercourse is safe to pursue is an abundance of riches, don’t you?

You should probably subtract another 5-7 days off that to allow for her period. I can’t speak for other women, but I know I wouldn’t be engaging during that time, and I would expect my husband to be respectful enough to understand.

From what I’m reading, if I was the OP I’d just let her go and tell her why. The OP is on a natural chemical high right now. Over time this high will diminish and things won’t be as wonderful. From what I’ve read, I can only see problems down the line. I would think even a priest would counsel for this relationship to not take place.

 

[Leegal]

not to get too crude here but there are different ways to “finish inside of the female”, I think he was referring only to vaginal intercourse when he was said “directed toward the womb”…

Hairsplitting. Those little swimmers know exactly where to go.

 

[PaperPlate]

Sex is only one part of a marriage and it’s only one part of us as human beings. It’s easy now days to place too much emphasis on it. We live in a highly sexualized society. This attitude has led to the widespread acceptance of contraception. Just look at the wonders it has done for modern marriage.

Well honestly I think there are plenty of other factors at play here. I’m not about to attempt to quantify it all. And not to get into it but I know plenty of Jewish and Christian (Catholic and all) marriages that didn’t make it. And sin has been around for ever right?

I’m sure there are marriages on this board that had premarital sex and they are happy as ever and will be and will have a great life. I know that isn’t an argument

 

[faithfully]

I mean it happens to men in their sleep without their control. Sure it is unintentional, but letting it go without attention leads to this uncontrollable behavior while asleep. And after the marital act is completed “naturally” there is always going to be some ‘waste’ at the end because nothing is air tight. Do you just clean it up and flush it down the toilet? Can you do with it as you please after? It sounds crude but it is a source of my misunderstanding.

It is NOT a sin to have a nocturnal event. It’s NOT something you can control. Being open to children means that you have “unprotected sex.” No condoms, not birthcontrol. Having any fluid spill during withdrawl after the deed is done is not a concern. As you know, it only takes ONE sperm to get pregnant. The idea is that you don’t put up a complete barrier, or try to prevent.

I wonder if it really is 20 days but I just don’t like things being so schedules and regulated… And isn’t it more pleasurable for the woman when her body is fertile? I mean, most women I know have cramps and horrible pains for several days of those 20.

Unless a woman’s cycle is completely messed up she is only fertile a few days a month. The cramps and horrible pains for several days of the month are during a woman’s period. Unless she has some medical condition. And not all women experience vomit inducing cramps.

I really do. I’m not disgusting or anything but I’d just like to be more free.

I hear of many Catholics feeling regret and doubt surrounding sex. I dont want there to be any doubt or regret after/about/around sex. There should never be anything like that but the more regulations are put down, the more people seem to be conflicted.

It seems as though the only way to follow the no contraception rule is to stay in the woman for quite sometime until any ‘remaining’ has been reabsorbed into each others bodies. Otherwise some of it gets wasted. It just sounds so… I don’t know… Uptight!

Where is the freedom in only having sex if you have protection? If the only way you can have sex is if you don’t risk a pregnancy that seems where regret and doubt are. Did you get to the dr? get your exam? Get your rx? Pick up the rx? Does it make you feel sick? Do you mind ingesting a class 1 carcinogen? Did you buy the condoms? Can we stop now so you can get it on? What is that smell??? (condoms stink - the spermicide kills the mood IMO). It broke? Didn’t you put it on right? Did you know a person can have a sever allergic reaction to latex? condoms are spendy. Hope you don’t want her to put a fish hook like object inside of her body, or pins in her arm (those constant artificial hormones can kill your relationship faster than a few days off from sex… I mean really, this kind of talk sounds rather restrictive just so you can get busy… (Please hear my humor here!) I’m not accussing. But perhaps try to look at sex as something you’re FREE to do. I’m not an expert on any of the NFP programs. But it’s wise for a husband to be totally versed. It’s not just on his wife. He knows… tonight is not a good night. We should go to a movie and out with friends. Not sit and stare into each others eyes wishing…

Again, don’t worry about the “some of it gets wasted…” That’s a wee bit OCD.

In reference to your statement "you can fly from a ceiling fan,if you want as long as you finish inside the woman."I would like clarification from anyone who , might know,does that mean that anything goes between a man and woman as long as the act is completed inside of the woman?

Please show me, where in the world did you get this from? Nowhere does it say, nor does the Church teach, that the ejaculate “is to be directed to the womb”. You either made that up or you are misinformed. The Church teaches only that the man must finish inside his wife. Period.
Sorry OP - this is NOT true. The only requirement with regard to the completion of sex, is that the sex act must complete within the woman, that’s all.

~Liza

Liza… you do realize that finishing in a mouth, or a bum is still “inside a woman”… and NOT procreative. I imagine being graceful with words “directed to the womb” gets lost in translation. Please excuse my bluntness. So, OP, those inside a woman acts aren’t considered ok. The FINISH has to be vaginal.

Finally, OP, you mentioned that isn’t the fertile time a time of desire for women. Yes, this is true. So it’s generally a bigger sacrafice for her if you don’t want to get PG at the time. But it should not mean in any way that sex at any other time of the month is less pleasurable.

You do seem to have lots of ideas about Catholics. Don’t worry, you’re not the only one. Just learn the facts to base your decision on. What a loss if you base your decisions on falsehoods.

BTW, I’m a Catholic female married to a non Catholic man. The love of my life. I would prefer he’s Catholic, but we manage quite well. The fact that you are Christian, and open to possablity and truth… I’d get your learnin’ on!!!

 

[faithfully]

Hairsplitting. Those little swimmers know exactly where to go.

It’s not hairsplitting. A sperm will NEVER make it to a cervix/uterus if it’s swallowed.

 

[PaperPlate]

Thank you for your post faithfully…

It is NOT a sin to have a nocturnal event. It’s NOT something you can control./QUOTE]
Ok I didn’t know that…
faithfully;8860712:

Where is the freedom in only having sex if you have protection? If the only way you can have sex is if you don’t risk a pregnancy that seems where regret and doubt are. Did you get to the dr? get your exam? Get your rx? Pick up the rx? Does it make you feel sick? Do you mind ingesting a class 1 carcinogen? Did you buy the condoms? Can we stop now so you can get it on? What is that smell??? (condoms stink - the spermicide kills the mood IMO). It broke? Didn’t you put it on right? Did you know a person can have a sever allergic reaction to latex? condoms are spendy. Hope you don’t want her to put a fish hook like object inside of her body, or pins in her arm (those constant artificial hormones can kill your relationship faster than a few days off from sex… I mean really, this kind of talk sounds rather restrictive just so you can get busy… (Please hear my humor here!) I’m not accussing. But perhaps try to look at sex as something you’re FREE to do. I’m not an expert on any of the NFP programs. But it’s wise for a husband to be totally versed. It’s not just on his wife. He knows… tonight is not a good night. We should go to a movie and out with friends. Not sit and stare into each others eyes wishing…

Oh yes I’m very aware of all of the cons of contraception. I was just talking about that one day it might come in handy. And I agree, I dont think its a good iea to use many of the medications especially implants and IUD and such. The benefits of hormone balancing from pills have proven beneficial to some women, but I acknowledge there is a health risk. Personally I think medications are pushed too often. I didn’t even fulfill the prescription of pain pills i was prescribed to me for my wisdom teeth. I just took a few over the counter Tylenol here and there. And I wouldn’t subject my wife to anything I wouldn’t subject myself to, especially just to have sex.

Finally, OP, you mentioned that isn’t the fertile time a time of desire for women. Yes, this is true. So it’s generally a bigger sacrafice for her if you don’t want to get PG at the time. But it should not mean in any way that sex at any other time of the month is less pleasurable.

You do seem to have lots of ideas about Catholics. Don’t worry, you’re not the only one. Just learn the facts to base your decision on. What a loss if you base your decisions on falsehoods.

BTW, I’m a Catholic female married to a non Catholic man. The love of my life. I would prefer he’s Catholic, but we manage quite well. The fact that you are Christian, and open to possablity and truth… I’d get your learnin’ on!!!

I really think I’m going to… even further.

It’s not hairsplitting. A sperm will NEVER make it to a cervix/uterus if it’s swallowed.

As you know, it only takes ONE sperm to get pregnant. The idea is that you don’t put up a complete barrier, or try to prevent.

Men can go down on their wife even after they finish right?
Not to be crude but a passionate kiss on the lips and subsequent finishing off of the wife with the same lips can cause pregnancy (considering the man finished orally). I mean it really is completely possible. I know it’s a stretch but has anyone brought this up to the church?

 

[Linda_Marie]

Marriage is not just about being able to have sex. There is a whole lot more to it. Marriage in the Catholic Church is a vocation and a Sacrament. This is what she will be thinking and expecting if you mention marriage to her.

The Vocation of Marriage

A vocation means a calling by God. The vocation of marriage is a calling to the state of holy matrimony. God created the sacrament of marriage when he created Adam and Eve: “Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh” (Gen. 2:24).

God gave you this special person to be your partner, to vow until death do you part. There will be many physical and emotional changes during this lifetime, so be prepared. You are to promise to share your lifetime experiences together. You are to serve each other with a covenant love, which can lead to an agape love. Serve the church with your love, and if you have children, serve God by serving His creation.

The Vocation of Marriage

Marriage is a vocation; it is the vocation to which the vast majority of people are called. It has two clear purposes or, as the Catechism says, a “twofold end…: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life” (n. 2363). It is a call both to faithful love and to fruitful love.

1. The first purpose is that spouses grow together in goodness, and in that openness to goodness which prepares them for heaven. This means specifically that they are meant to grow in loving God (the first commandment) by means of growing in love for each other throughout their lifetime.
2. The second purpose is that they carry on God’s loving work of creation. In other words that, as co-creators with God, they bring children into the world and rear them in the setting of family love, so as to prepare them for a life that can lead to Heaven.
   These essentially linked purposes are clearly indicated in the scriptural accounts of the creation of the sexes and of the institution of marriage.

The Sacrament of Marriage

1643 "Conjugal love involves a totality, in which all the elements of the person enter - appeal of the body and instinct, power of feeling and affectivity, aspiration of the spirit and of will. It aims at a deeply personal unity, a unity that, beyond union in one flesh, leads to forming one heart and soul; it demands indissolubility and faithfulness in definitive mutual giving; and it is open to fertility. In a word it is a question of the normal characteristics of all natural conjugal love, but with a new significance which not only purifies and strengthens them, but raises them to the extent of making them the expression of specifically Christian values."152
<…>
652 "By its very nature the institution of marriage and married love is ordered to the procreation and education of the offspring and it is in them that it finds its crowning glory."162

Children are the supreme gift of marriage and contribute greatly to the good of the parents themselves. God himself said: "It is not good that man should be alone," and "from the beginning [he] made them male and female"; wishing to associate them in a special way in his own creative work, God blessed man and woman with the words: "Be fruitful and multiply." Hence, true married love and the whole structure of family life which results from it, without diminishment of the other ends of marriage, are directed to disposing the spouses to cooperate valiantly with the love of the Creator and Savior, who through them will increase and enrich his family from day to day.163

1653 The fruitfulness of conjugal love extends to the fruits of the moral, spiritual, and supernatural life that parents hand on to their children by education. Parents are the principal and first educators of their children.164 In this sense the fundamental task of marriage and family is to be at the service of life.165

1654 Spouses to whom God has not granted children can nevertheless have a conjugal life full of meaning, in both human and Christian terms. Their marriage can radiate a fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality, and of sacrifice.

Pope John Paul II’s
Theology of the Body

Fundamental Structure of the Marriage Act

John Paul II seeks to help explain Pope Paul VI’s controversial and misunderstood encyclical Humanae Vitae (Of Human Life) by illustrating why contraception is not in accordance with the dignity of the person. It is because the marital act in its very nature, as God created it, both unites the couple and is open to life. When a couple engages in intercourse they are therefore implicitly saying that they desire union with each other and are open to the possibility of procreation. Contraception denies the procreative aspect and therefore the integral truth of the act itself. In this way the couple is not speaking the truth with their bodies, but a lie. Rather than accepting the other person fully as God made him or her, with the ability to unite as well as procreate, there is the rejection of the other person through the rejection of his or her fertility.