I'm Not Catholic

[Epistemes]

I have a whacked history when it comes to my relationship not only with God and Christ but also with the Church.

In brief,

• in April 2005, as a non-Catholic, I decide to start attending Mass and eventually become Catholic, but am held up due to scheduling conflicts with RCIA and grad school – plus my fervor eventually burns me out.
• in October 2006, after experimenting with Islam, I return to my interest in Catholicism, quit grad school primarily so that I can attend RCIA, and am confirmed into the Church during Easter 2007. I am dedicated to my new Church; I attend weekly Bible study, I attend daily mass as frequently as possible; I recite the rosary daily; I attend Eucharistic Adoration in addition to privately studying the Bible and theology. However, in September, I have a crisis of faith, begin doubting in all that I believed and in all that I did during the previous year, and stop attending Mass.
• in January 2008, I go to confession, I start attending Mass again, and I continue studying the Bible and theology from which I learn some particularly valuable insights that continue to shape my understanding of Christ and the Church for the better, but I fall away from the Church again because I realize that I’d honestly rather be willfully disobedient than attempt to mold myself into something I’m not and conform to rules I am bound to break repeatedly
• during Easter 2008, I come back the Church briefly, say confession again, participate in the Easter sacraments, feel spiritually renewed, but eventually I lose hope in myself and in the Church.

What’s funny are the events which lead me to these moments of renewal. Initially, back in 2005, I decided to pursue my interest in the Church due to some fond memories I had in college of walking about a mile up the street to a parish and sitting in front of a statue of Mary with my thoughts. For this reason, I’ve always been especially fond of Mary - taking her name as my confirmation name. When I decided to go back in October 2006, it was after some online conversations I had been having with a devout Catholic who was then living in Pennsylvania and with another devout Maronite living in Lebanon - both people hinting that I sounded more Catholic than anything else, at which point my memories of the years prior caused me to investigate further and to much greater success. In short, every time I go away, I come back because of certain memories - but when I go return, I’m faced with the utterly mundane, a sense of worthlessness, and exactly no feelings of exultation (or even misery) whatsoever regarding the sacraments or my presence in the sanctuary. It’s the feeling of, ‘Oh, it’s Sunday morning, let’s shave and get dressed, and let’s park in the same parking spot at church, and let’s sit alone like nobody knows me since that’s precisely what people in this parish do, and let’s go through the rubrics of Mass, and let’s wait until the end of the hymn before walking out and shaking the deacon’s hand (because everybody would much rather shake hands with the priest but that line is much to long…as I still need lunch).’ Ever since my crisis of faith, I have seriously tried getting excited about the Sunday routine, and that may last one week before it’s back to the same ol’ grind. I’ve tried acting holy, I’ve tried praying fervently before Mass, and I’ve tried not letting it bother me…to no avail. Excuse my language, but dark night of the soul, my a**.

My circumstances are so isolated and individual that I can’t necessarily expect many of you here, all clumped together in one forum, to understand all the specifics of what’s going on with and what’s driving me to post this at such a late hour (2 AM EST). Also, I don’t have a particularly exceptional history with this forum as of late since some of my beliefs do diverge from that of the One Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church, which isn’t to say that I deny the central beliefs in God, Christ and Sacraments, but I didn’t post this in order to rehash those old debates. Plus, there are some real pricks on this forum who, even when you’re being fair and just, will sandbag you and several prominent theologians besides simply due to the fact that their own intellectual posterity has been shaken.

But please understand this: I titled this post “I’m Not Catholic” because I didn’t know what else to title it, but for the past couple of days I’ve been spending my evenings on Yahoo! Anwers answering questions for people concerned about their faith, and this is at a time when I, myself, don’t know what to believe or why I believe what I do. If I were to take my own advice, the advice I’m giving these other people, then the answers might be a little become clearer alot faster. I wonder, though, if I even believe the advice I’m giving regardless of how correct I know it is. It’s hypocrisy, really. It’s tantamount to telling Lil’ Johnny that he shouldn’t have a cookie before supper otherwise he’ll ruin his apetite, but than snatching one myself immediately after he’s left under the premise that my stomach is much larger than his.

I’ve also been reading Umberto Eco’s “The Name of the Rose,” which for those of you who don’t know, involves the Benedictines, the Franciscans, and Church history, in general. In its supposition of theological and philosophical questions, I find I agree with what is said by the characters, which causes me to wonder why I’m being so fickle about my membership in the Church.

I surely don’t know.

 

[beckycmarie]

Hi Epistemes,

I understand what you’re going through, having bouts of fervor followed by crashes into lukewarmness, or worse.

What helped resolve that, in addition to frequenting the Sacraments, was commitment to daily prayer and meditation. Rather than copy and paste the whole long story here, I’ll link to my post here:

Prayer and Meditation

Hope this helps. :console:

 

[Epistemes]

Thanks, Becky, for your sympathy, your prayers, and your blog post about prayer.

I’m actually quite familiar with prayer. In fact, before my crisis of faith, I actually met with a Capuchin friar (because I was starting to consider some sort of vocation) and I actually learned through him that I had been leading a healthy prayer life. In the words of St Paul, I prayed without ceasing.

Now, however, there’s so much of a strain to even begin a prayer – any prayer, including the Hail Mary or Our Father – that it sometimes feel as if I might induce mental and spiritual hemrhoids!

Ya know, though – it’s funny, because I was just reading another thread in this Spirituality section about someone who rejects Jesus. I find that I, on the contrary, don’t necessarily reject anything about Jesus. I’m actually quite envious of other people, like yourselves, who at least are able to put forth effort to be like him even in the face of the hardest times or easiest times. And I am especially envious of those of you who are mentally capable of balancing a healthy spiritual life with one that involves living in the world. For me, unfortunately, it seems it is all or nothing at all. I guess that makes me spiritually borderline.

 

[Cathryn]

I go directly to Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament (Holy Hour) and ask Him to guide me to where He wants me to be. I tell him that He knows what I need and what I need to do. He will guide you too, if you let Him. Just keep going back to Him, regardless of how your feel. It is more about letting Grace work in you, than about feelings. Feeling will go up and down.

 

[Augustine]

Epistemes,

For what it’s worth, it’s not only those who convert that see their enthusiasm subside, reverts or even life-long Catholics do too.

Many Doctors of the Church went through the same, and some were made doctors because of the influence that their writings on this very subject had in the life of the Church.

According to them, God withdrawals the many consolations we get when we first approach Him with a sincere to purify our faith. Basically, He wants you to love Him, not His consolations. He wants His children to develop a mature love, one that will continue loving Him with or without consolations.

You didn’t mention that this was the case, I’m only inferring from what seems to be some boredom you’ve met. Bored or not, God wants you to love Him, no matter whether this love excites you or not, but to love Him faithfully as He loves you.

That’s why God allows you to go through such temptations, which is what they are. But His grace is enough for you.

 

[beckycmarie]

Now, however, there’s so much of a strain to even begin a prayer – any prayer, including the Hail Mary or Our Father. . .

Actually that may not be a bad thing.

Shortly after many people begin pursuing a serious relationship with God, the good feelings and consolations go away and the person experiences dryness. Often this is because God has led someone into the dark night of sense, in which the person is learning to love God because He deserves to be loved, and not just for what they can get from Him.

A person in this state often feels as though they are far from God, when actually they are growing closer. During this time prayer becomes difficult because the transition from vocal prayer and meditation to infused contemplation is happening. Fr. Thomas Dubay writes about this in one of his books:

A person can recognize the beginnings of infused prayer when three signs are found together (one or another by itself is not enough - it could be due to something on a merely natural plane):

1. One experiences a disinclination to meditate discursively, an inability to profit from active reflecting. This disinclination and inability are not due to laxity, but rather to being drawn toward God in a simple, idealess way. Even though distractions may abound, the Lord is infusing a dark longing for himself. This yearning is usually dry, delicate, and brief.

1. An inner perception of emptiness replaces the ideas and pleasures of former discursive thinking. The person is giving up worldly pleasures and is not yet purified sufficiently to enjoy God with any depth. Hence, there is a lack of comfort and closeness. The Lord seems distant and finite things do not satisfy.

1. There is a marked earnestness in serving God better. This sign shows that the first two do no proceed from mediocrity, but from a new and better form of prayer.

Source: Seeking Spiritual Direction: How to Grow the Divine Life Within
by Thomas Dubay, S.M. p. 185

 

[Epistemes]

Thanks for your reply Augustine. And aware as I am of the trials faced by the Doctors and other saints, I don’t know that I’ve ever read anything by the saints addressing the problem of not caring, of spiritual apathy, and intentional recklessness after conversion. We can imagine all saints experiencing trials, but when they did give in to such trials they were immensely sorrowful and did everything they could to make recompense. Never do you hear about a saint who sins, who quits going to Mass, who gives up.

 

[Epistemes]

Actually that may not be a bad thing.

Shortly after many people begin pursuing a serious relationship with God, the good feelings and consolations go away and the person experiences dryness. Often this is because God has led someone into the dark night of sense, in which the person is learning to love God because He deserves to be loved, and not just for what they can get from Him.

A person in this state often feels as though they are far from God, when actually they are growing closer. During this time prayer becomes difficult because the transition from vocal prayer and meditation to infused contemplation is happening. Fr. Thomas Dubay writes about this in one of his books…

Right, the Dark Night of the Soul – which is what I refuse to believe is occurring to me for a number of reasons. For one, St John of the Cross eliminates my condition by stating that the dark night of the soul should not be confused with spiritual dryness due to mortal sin, of which I am most definitely guilty. Also, St John of the Cross also claims that someone who is spiritually mature is likely to undergo the trials of the dark night, not someone like me who either doesn’t know what he believes anymore, or knowing what he believes is afraid to act definitively on those beliefs.

 

[mark_a]

but I fall away from the Church again because I realize that I’d honestly rather be willfully disobedient than attempt to mold myself into something I’m not and conform to rules I am bound to break repeatedly

If you must, drag yourself to your Catholic obligations. Stop expecting a thrill or excitement. There is nothing thrilling about taking up one’s cross.

Next you can work on giving up your right to be offended.

 

[Epistemes]

In a way, mark, I’m kind of disappointed that you’ve intervened with such levelheaded advice. I, for one, would have liked to have seen this thread stretch on for another couple of pages, at the very least, before someone like yourself offered such a grand pearl of wisdom.

Que sera sera, as the French say.

 

[beckycmarie]

Right, the Dark Night of the Soul – which is what I refuse to believe is occurring to me for a number of reasons. For one, St John of the Cross eliminates my condition by stating that the dark night of the soul should not be confused with spiritual dryness due to mortal sin, of which I am most definitely guilty. Also, St John of the Cross also claims that someone who is spiritually mature is likely to undergo the trials of the dark night, not someone like me who either doesn’t know what he believes anymore, or knowing what he believes is afraid to act definitively on those beliefs.

You’re correct about mortal sin cutting of the spiritual life, and we have lost that life until we gain it back through confession.

However, the dark night of the soul happens when someone is nearing perfection. There are two dark nights - the earlier one, the dark night of sense occurs early on after conversion as God weans a person off of consolations into a deeper relationship with Him. A person is far from perfect in the first dark night. People who don’t know what’s going on may lose their perseverance when they notice the dryness that comes with progress, and abandon their efforts. It’s when we continue to pursue God despite the dryness that we grow much closer to Him.

 

[Epistemes]

You’re correct about mortal sin cutting of the spiritual life, and we have lost that life until we gain it back through confession.

However, the dark night of the soul happens when someone is nearing perfection. There are two dark nights - the earlier one, the dark night of sense occurs early on after conversion as God weans a person off of consolations into a deeper relationship with Him. A person is far from perfect in the first dark night. People who don’t know what’s going on may lose their perseverance when they notice the dryness that comes with progress, and abandon their efforts. It’s when we continue to pursue God despite the dryness that we grow much closer to Him.

You’re probably on to something there! I’ve always suspected that my crisis of faith coincided with a moment where I was beginning to emerge from my spiritual infancy. Being weaned, as you say, couldn’t have come at a worse time, really.

I’ll never forget the confession I made that day. I needed a shrink, not a priest.

 

[Zooey]

You know, that feeling that prayer is so hard—You do realize that isn’t your voice saying that to you, right?
Because the devil just delights, I believe, in making believers doubt that we can ever be any good at praying, doubt that prayer does anything, doubt that we have some “super prayer power”…Anything to keep us from praying.
The cure for that, is to pray. Even when you don’t feel like it. Especially when you don’t feel like it!
That is the beauty of a simple prayer that you can say over & over. Or read from a prayer book. Anything, but break that cycle of not praying, because that is satan talking.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. (Several times. Millions of times. Zillions, probably).
Pray. Just pray. Even if you just say the Jesus Prayer over & over again. “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner”.
Or any other prayer. But don’t stay in that place any longer than you have to.
God bless.

 

[beckycmarie]

You’re probably on to something there! I’ve always suspected that my crisis of faith coincided with a moment where I was beginning to emerge from my spiritual infancy. Being weaned, as you say, couldn’t have come at a worse time, really.

Dear Epistemes,

When you get back to that point again, keep going even though that feeling of enthusiasm is gone. You’re actually closer to God when you keep trying even when the “reward” is gone. You’ll find that it is well worth the effort when you keep going through that dry time.

I recommend Fr. Thomas Dubay’s books, Fire Within and Seeking Spiritual Direction: Growing the Divine Life Within. Fire Within explains contemplative prayer and the dark nights in a format that is easy to understand, and Seeking Spiritual Direction has a lot of practical advice on how to grow and assess your progress.

 

[Epistemes]

So far, everyone has provided some good advice, but I just want to quickly write down a revelation which occurred to me today while considering the religious question – the religious question, of course, being why I even want to be dedicated to a life emulating Christ’s virtues in the first place.

While contemplating this question, I was able to flesh out ‘my boredom’ to a greater extent and ultimately able to pin down why I’m so afraid of the religious question anymore. You see, as a member of the laity with no specific nor important function within my humble parish, especially being a still relatively “new” member, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of reason to act in such-and-such a manner, to be dedicated to the sacraments like I was, or to place too much emphasis on the virtues of Christ – which is something even atheists can do knowingly or unknowingly. Being virtuous isn’t unique among Christians at all. To live as one of the common folk under the yoke and lash of our bishops and priests, to go through the everyday rubrics which I described in my first post, and to ultimately wake up one day on the edge of one’s deathbed still having served very little purpose within the Church is like living with a dreaded, crippling disease. My soul, plagued by vanity, is paralyzed by the fear of anonymity.

Above, mark responded that I should drag myself to my Catholic responsibilities. If my soul was not paralyzed by such a fear as the one I have, and if I truly cared more than I do (for, truly, I sometimes wonder if I’m not doing a disservice to my time and my energy by attempting to spell myself out in these posts), then I might feel some inclination that dragging myself to those Catholic responsibilities would be more advantageous than me not performing them, but as it stands I cannot necessarily say that I think or feel such is the truth; that is to say, performing my Catholic responsibilities under such duress seems even more threatening to my happiness, my integrity and my livelihood than should I go on not performing them.

I only mention this because, for some strange reason which I have yet to figure out for myself, everytime I get the inclination be a good, devout religious person (as I am doing now) I simultaneously get the inkling to join the religious life, to become a Franciscan, or Dominican or Jesuit. This feeling was especially strong during my initial fervency, and it only leaves when I make the decision to step away from Mass and the sacraments – rightly so. If it’s not religious life, then there’s the feeling I should become a professor of theology. In some way, though, as you can see, I am simply not content with being among the laity. It’s not that I necessarily think I am better than everybody else – no – but, again, to live constrained as such appears, from the outside which is where I now stand, as debilitating and morose.

In short, what I’m trying to say is that I simply see no joy in being Catholic anymore.

 

[SawGodThere]

How many retreats does your parish offer that you can go on? Those are great spiritual energizers. I know the feeling, that you would rather disobey God than obey, and I will pray for you. Our spiritual Odessey takes a long time, and is not complete until we make it to heaven. We fall down, and get back up. Also, are you fond of your priest and deacon and their homilies. Sometimes, priests fail to reach certain people. Sometimes, they have a great message, but we can’t see it. If you don’t enjoy your pastor’s homilies, try going to another parish. Ask God for to be with you. When you feel his prescence, there is no better feeling. I would recommend that, and that you pray during whatever you are doing. Come to think of it, I now have the same problem you do…I should take my own advice.

God Bless

Nik

 

[Epistemes]

Hey Nik…

I don’t know if you happened to read my initial post, but you’re right, in a way: if I decided to take my own advice, then perhaps I’d view my circumstances a bit differently…a bit more optimistically.

Life is a journey with many pit stops along the way, I know, but I’m growing rather impatient not only with the Catholic question but also with the non-Catholic question.

 

[beckycmarie]

I only mention this because, for some strange reason which I have yet to figure out for myself, everytime I get the inclination be a good, devout religious person (as I am doing now) I simultaneously get the inkling to join the religious life, to become a Franciscan, or Dominican or Jesuit. This feeling was especially strong during my initial fervency, and it only leaves when I make the decision to step away from Mass and the sacraments – rightly so. If it’s not religious life, then there’s the feeling I should become a professor of theology. In some way, though, as you can see, I am simply not content with being among the laity. It’s not that I necessarily think I am better than everybody else – no – but, again, to live constrained as such appears, from the outside which is where I now stand, as debilitating and morose.

In short, what I’m trying to say is that I simply see no joy in being Catholic anymore.

Perhaps God is calling you to religious life. When joining an order you don’t take your vows the first day; they give you a period of discernment to find out if it’s really your calling first.

You could also consider a secular order within a religious community to see if that fulfills your longing.

There’s a thread around here listing lots of secular groups within orders:

Religious Orders and the Laity

 

[Epistemes]

You know what? That jogs my memory about something pretty significant!

I started having difficulties with my faith a couple months after completing the True Devotion to Mary of St Louis de Montfort – the process where a person becomes devoted to Jesus strictly through Mary. I’m not sure what about the process frightened me or caused me such difficulties, as I remember it did, but I do distinctly remember feeling somewhat lost, disheartened, and abandoned right around this time. It seemed that a lot was happening right around the same time…

I only mention this because I’m slowly starting to realize certain things about where I am, why I am where I am, and how to proceed from here.

The idea of religious life even of the third order does, in fact, seem like a good one – but I now am starting to see that I’ve got a lot of spiritual and mental growth to endure before I am able to dedicate myself to something like that.