Im Pregnant....

[rayne89]

First off I apologize for the tone of my letter, it was not directed at Bunnyness she is completely in my prayers, it is simply to inform her and OTHERS that the church does not allow this and in no way condones it at all.
Secondly
Marriage is a sacrament that should be entered into in the** state of grace** If you are Fornicating or Co-habitating that is a mortal sin and to keep it up is a serious and grave offense. It can and should be an impediment to the SACRAMENT of marriage, I am not saying that if you do these things out of fallen human nature you can’t get married, I am saying that they should not be going on during the marriage preparation phase or even at all. If your Priest does not tell you to stop fornicating and/or stop co-habitating he is not doing his GOD given Duty as a Shepard to his flock. Lazy and misinformed Priests in whole are the reason for such dissent and disregard for Catholic teaching, Doctrines and Dogmas. If we as the body of Christ are in union with the Head, ROME, then we would know what her teachings are at all times; however, it seems that we too as a whole are Lazy, misinformed and highly in disbelief of Her teachings. If we do not seek teachers who are in accordance with Holy Mother Church, those who teach black and white, wrong from right, then we are seeking teachers to teach us according to our own lusts and desires, this is WRONG! I apologize if I offend some of the users .

Are you calling His Holiness Pope John Paul a lazy, misinformed priest ? Did you even read the document I posted? If you want to cling to stubborn pride and be more Catholic than then the Pope that’s your business.

I posted the teaching which comes from **Familiaris Consortio **the encyclical by Pope John Paul. We need to reach out to people where they are in life and help them grow in holiness. Be merciful as God our Father is merciful.

Your post doesn’t offend me, it saddens me. Being devout as you are you should be familiar with this prayer:

O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of your mercy

May I humbly ask you to consider the words of that prayer closely and take them in to your heart. God Bless.

 

[TweetyBird]

truelove_88:

Cohabiting is not ideal. Fornication is mortal sin. We all know that.

However, the Church does not necessarily require cohabiting couples to move out before marriage. It would depend on the circumstances. For example, I married outside the Church at a time when I was not practicing my faith. We have 3 kids and another on the way. We are preparing to have our marriage convalidated. We are not required to separate in order to become validly married in the Church. Of course, I cannot receive communion when I fail in my intentions to be chaste until the convalidation. Nonetheless, separating would be financially impossible, and would certainly cause undue disruption in the lives of our children.

As for the OP, it is not ideal for her to cohabit with her fiance, even if they could remain chaste. However, I’d rather her live with her fiance making every effort to live chastely if there is no alternative for a safe living arrangement for her and the baby.

BTW, we all sin all the time. That is why we have recourse to the sacrament of penance. Should she fall into mortal sin, she should of course, confess it. Particularly so prior to her wedding, so that she can receive the sacrament of matrimony in a state of grace.

 

[rayne89]

By the way TrueLove I am not arguing for cohabitating before marriage. Sex before marriage is a mortal sin and I do not deny that in anyway. I just know many people come from different backgrounds, many poorly catechized. I trust that God can work in these people if we do not drive them away. I don’t pretend to be more powerful than God. I believe conversion is the work of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes God gives us the privilege to be a small part of that. I’ve been blessed with a few such experiences in my life.
I am not some heterodox Catholic picking and chosing what teachings I like. I look to the church and it’s infinite wisdom to guide me. I take my faith very seriously. So please don’t make blanket judgemets about those who don’t agree with your hardened position. I gave you the teaching of the church - it’s up to you believe it or not.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Christ meets us all where we are. And if we choose to follow Him, He leads us to where we should be.

TrueLove, your MIL has fired a warning shot over the bow. Now you know for sure what you are dealing with. It is not her business when you have children. I hope your husband has let her know, gently but firmly, that her opinions are not helpful. That this is your own family. And since what you have done, conceiving a baby, is not sinful, it’s not her business to even correct you in Christian charity. Good luck. And congrats on your baby. I had my first baby on another continent. I know what it’s like to feel so far from family. But it’s a good chance to bond with your husband.

 

[queen_anne78]

i 2nd “the pregnancy book” by the Sears…“what to expect” makes pregnancy and birth out to be a big chore/emergency. Also “The Thinking Woman’s Guide to a Better Birth” by Henci Goer is FABULOUS!

prayers!

 

[Truly_Beloved]

i 2nd “the pregnancy book” by the Sears…“what to expect” makes pregnancy and birth out to be a big chore/emergency. Also “The Thinking Woman’s Guide to a Better Birth” by Henci Goer is FABULOUS!

prayers!

Oooh! Can I 3rd Dr. Sears’ The Pregnancy Book? And read The Birth Book, too. If you’re feeling particularly scholarly, Bunny, dive right into The Baby Book after that!

Yeah, I’m just a little bit of a fan of the Sears family.

 

[Mary_Henley]

The Sacraments and Their Celebration Matrimony
IV. DIRIMENT IMPEDIMENTS SPECIFICALLY
11. PUBLIC PROPRIETY

a. Impediment

The impediment of public propriety or public decency (honestas publica) arises when a couple live together after an invalid marriage, or from a notorious or public concubinage. It invalidates marriage in the first degree of the direct line between the man and those related by consanguinity to the woman, and vice versa.76
One foundation for the impediment is an invalid marriage, due to lack of true consent, to defect of form, or to the presence of a diriment impediment, but with cohabitation. It makes no difference whether consummation took place or whether the union was entered into in good or bad faith (thus a putative marriage incurs the impediment), as long as there is at least an appearance of marriage, an apparent contract. When at least one party is bound by the canonical form of marriage, an attempt at a purely civil marriage, when there is no cohabitation, has not even the appearance of marriage, and consequently does not incur the impediment. Usually public or notorious concubinage accompanies this civil act (or a marriage attempted before a non-Catholic minister), and thus the impediment is incurred.77
Concubinage is a modus vivendi or relationship between a man and a woman which has a certain semblance of marital life. The parties cohabit as man and wife in sexual intercourse, without necessarily dwelling in the same abode or without necessarily involving financial arrangements, and even though the woman is already married. There must be a certain unity and continuance or permanence in the carnal relations of the man and the same woman, so that a condition of acceptance of the state of relationship exists or an understanding perdures between them to live in an apparently marital fashion. This stability or understanding is thus lacking in the approach to a prostitute or in the frequency of fornication, even with the same woman.

b. Dispensation

The degree of relationship is computed in the same way as for consanguinity, but only in the direct line. Being of ecclesiastical law only, this impediment does not bind the unbaptized marrying among themselves. Becoming baptized and remaining in the conditions of the impediment, it begins to bind. The impediment is permanent and thus can be removed only by dispensation.

(C)

After viewing some of these posts I am going to jump in and offer my two cents.

What are we discussing?
What the Church teaches?
What is the least we can squeak by with?
What is the letter of the law or the spirit?

From what I can see we need to understand that cohabitation is a mortal sin. Deadly!
Fornication is a mortal sin. Deadly!

Instead of trying to split hairs and sit in our armchairs making moral judgements on situations that are best handled in the confessional we should all be encouraging each other while it is still today to live our lives as though we shall die tonight.
Cohabitation is a deadly game being played by far too many Catholics before marriage.
The cohabitation of couples living together in an irregular situation is a whole 'nother can of worms.
If an ole lady can offer advice…do to the best of your ability ALL that Holy Mother Church asks…become holy, pleasing to God. Form your conscience according to Her teachings.
That means obedience to the Ten commandments.
The six and ninth Commandments forbid sins of the flesh.
This is really a simple matter.
Cohabitation is a sin.
Cohabitation is displeasing to God…it offends Him!
Cohabitation = fornication.
Fornicators will not be given entrance into Heaven.

 

[Mary_Henley]

For a person who is cohabiting …living in the state of mortal sin…to go to confession and confess this sin only to return home and continue the state of cohabitation…one would have to assume that a firm purpose of amendment was absent…(confession invalid).

 

[Catherine_W]

Its hard to see cohabitation as equaling fornication. Is this indeed true? So is it sinful to live as roommates with anyone until you are married? Does this rule only follow when the two are dating or does this go for all roommates? I can’t see how cohabitation = fornication. So if I lived as roommates with my sibling or a friend, then would you call that fornication?

I guess what is the definition of cohabitation exactly?

 

[truelove_88]

Its hard to see cohabitation as equaling fornication. Is this indeed true? So is it sinful to live as roommates with anyone until you are married? Does this rule only follow when the two are dating or does this go for all roommates? I can’t see how cohabitation = fornication. So if I lived as roommates with my sibling or a friend, then would you call that fornication?

I guess what is the definition of cohabitation exactly?

The definition of co-habitation is two or more people of the opposite sex living together under one roof; who are unmarried, boyfriend-girlfriend, engaged couples, or just as roommates,
even if they are not romantically involved it would still be co-habitation.

It is still co-habitation even when it involves friends and siblings, it would be very immodest and inappropriate to live with an unmarried sibling of the opposite sex, people will assume there is more going on than simply trying to save on rent and more often than not they do not know that the other person is a sibling.

Co-habitation is fornication, it goes against God’s laws and commandments and therefore it is a mortal sin, we cannot separate co-habitation and fornication they go hand in hand, they are both mortally sinful and displeasing to God.

so in answer to your question, yes living with someone of the opposite sex, family, friend or not it is still co-habitation and therefore is fornication.

God bless

 

[truelove_88]

Oooh! Can I 3rd Dr. Sears’ The Pregnancy Book? And read The Birth Book, too. If you’re feeling particularly scholarly, Bunny, dive right into The Baby Book after that!

Yeah, I’m just a little bit of a fan of the Sears family.

I am currently reading the Mayo clinic’s book on a healthy pregnancy and birth, it’s very well written and very informative.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

It is still co-habitation even when it involves friends and siblings, it would be very immodest and inappropriate to live with an unmarried sibling of the opposite sex, people will assume there is more going on than simply trying to save on rent and more often than not they do not know that the other person is a sibling.

I do not agree with that at all. There are many cultures where it is entirely appropriate for siblings to live together and no one suspects anything sick! And in some cultures where they have become American citizens, for a young unmarried woman to live apart from her family would be the scandal!

It’s a perfect example of why rash judgment is such a sin. If I lived with my sister, would people think we were lesbians? Sometimes it can lead to greater holiness if siblings support each other and provide companionship. Maybe there would be less promiscuity in the world if people maintained their close family ties better and weren’t going and looking for compansionship and love (agape, people) in all the wrong places.

Actually, I’d feel safer if my older unmarried brother could live with me. It would certainly help financially. And he’d be a good role model for my kids. But he’s in another state.

I don’t agree with your answer at all.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

And co-habitation is not fornication. Fornication is actually having sexual intercourse with someone with whom you weren’t married. I lived in my parents’ home with my siblings as we all finished college and went out into the world. I promise you we weren’t having intercourse! But we were cohabitating. And there was no abomination going on.

You’re telling me I lived in mortal sin with my siblings for all those years? And how about a son I know who lives with his elderly mother? You going to accuse them of mortal sin? Incest?

I don’t think so.

For unmarried couples who are cohabiting and intend on marriage (as opposed to family members), cohabiting is wrong even if you aren’t actually having sexual relations, because it is a near occasion of sin. And if you can live for a year and a half and not be tempted, then maybe you need to rethink marrying that person.

 

[maria29]

The definition of co-habitation is two or more people of the opposite sex living together under one roof; who are unmarried, boyfriend-girlfriend, engaged couples, or just as roommates,
even if they are not romantically involved it would still be co-habitation.

It is still co-habitation even when it involves friends and siblings, it would be very immodest and inappropriate to live with an unmarried sibling of the opposite sex, people will assume there is more going on than simply trying to save on rent and more often than not they do not know that the other person is a sibling.
Co-habitation is fornication, it goes against God’s laws and commandments and therefore it is a mortal sin, we cannot separate co-habitation and fornication they go hand in hand, they are both mortally sinful and displeasing to God.

so in answer to your question, yes living with someone of the opposite sex, family, friend or not it is still co-habitation and therefore is fornication.

God bless

This is so wrong I don’t even know where to begin. No where in Church teachings does it say we cannot live with our siblings…Look at Martha, Mary and her brother all lived together. Did Jesus rebuke them? NO!!! Because its not wrong, evil or immoral.

If you have a parish priest or advisor, I would seriously suggest going to talk to him about these issues.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

The definition of co-habitation is two or more people of the opposite sex living together under one roof; who are unmarried, boyfriend-girlfriend, engaged couples, or just as roommates,
even if they are not romantically involved it would still be co-habitation.

It is still co-habitation even when it involves friends and siblings, it would be very immodest and inappropriate to live with an unmarried sibling of the opposite sex, people will assume there is more going on than simply trying to save on rent and more often than not they do not know that the other person is a sibling.

Co-habitation is fornication, it goes against God’s laws and commandments and therefore it is a mortal sin, we cannot separate co-habitation and fornication they go hand in hand, they are both mortally sinful and displeasing to God.

so in answer to your question, yes living with someone of the opposite sex, family, friend or not it is still co-habitation and therefore is fornication.

God bless

http://bestsmileys.com/eek/14.gif

Not sure that I read you correctly, “living with someone of the opposite sex, family, friend or not is still co-habitation and therefore is fornication” (emphasis mine).

Nevermind I did read that right. What are you talking about? Where is your basis for this. You best make sure you have a safety net underneath you as you make this jump.

Please do provide your support for this.

 

[truelove_88]

I do not agree with that at all. There are many cultures where it is entirely appropriate for siblings to live together and no one suspects anything sick! And in some cultures where they have become American citizens, for a young unmarried woman to live apart from her family would be the scandal!

It’s a perfect example of why rash judgment is such a sin. If I lived with my sister, would people think we were lesbians? Sometimes it can lead to greater holiness if siblings support each other and provide companionship. Maybe there would be less promiscuity in the world if people maintained their close family ties better and weren’t going and looking for compansionship and love (agape, people) in all the wrong places.

Actually, I’d feel safer if my older unmarried brother could live with me. It would certainly help financially. And he’d be a good role model for my kids. But he’s in another state.

I don’t agree with your answer at all.

I did not say from there family, I was speaking in terms of moving away from the family and living with an unmarried relative/sibling of the** opposite sex**.

As for your answer, I take it you are married.
If a single family member lives with a sibling who is married there is nothing wrong with that. It is when there could be scandal that it should be avoided at all costs. Human beings are human beings, fallen human nature is still the same fallen, and flesh is flesh, temptation can still occur even if it is a family member, therefore it is better to avoid such situations.

 

[maria29]

I did not say from there family, I was speaking in terms of moving away from the family and living with an unmarried relative/sibling of the** opposite sex**.

As for your answer, I take it you are married.
If a single family member lives with a sibling who is married there is nothing wrong with that. It is when there could be scandal that it should be avoided at all costs. Human beings are human beings, fallen human nature is still the same fallen, and flesh is flesh, temptation can still occur even if it is a family member, therefore it is better to avoid such situations.

Umm are you refering to incest among brother and sister? If so, I really do recommend talking with a priest immediately. What a horrible thing to say about a brother and sister who want to watch out for each!

 

[kevinsgirl]

The definition of co-habitation is two or more people of the opposite sex living together under one roof; who are unmarried, boyfriend-girlfriend, engaged couples, or just as roommates,
even if they are not romantically involved it would still be co-habitation.

So when a same sex couple shack up it isn’t co-habitation?

 

[truelove_88]

http://bestsmileys.com/eek/14.gif

Not sure that I read you correctly, “living with someone of the opposite sex, family, friend or not is still co-habitation and therefore is fornication” (emphasis mine).

Nevermind I did read that right. What are you talking about? Where is your basis for this. You best make sure you have a safety net underneath you as you make this jump.

Please do provide your support for this.

My basis is in the teaching of the Catholic Church in whole not in bits and pieces.
My support has been provided in previous posts. should I have to look it all up for everybody or can we read for ourselves?
Here plain and simply put.
Co-habitation = mortal sin.
fornication= mortal sin.
when you co-habitat you fornicate because it goes against the law of God.

 

[maria29]

My basis is in the teaching of the Catholic Church in whole not in bits and pieces.
My support has been provided in previous posts. should I have to look it all up for everybody or can we read for ourselves?
Here plain and simply put.
Co-habitation = mortal sin.
fornication= mortal sin.
when you co-habitat you fornicate because it goes against the law of God.

So then how do you justify when the CHurch says that priests need to use their pastoral discernment in extreme cases? What if you cohabit and don’t fornicate? But apparently even brothers and sisters who cohabit fornicate according to you…