I'm sick of all the cafeteria, lukewarm, irreverant, uncatechized, cultural catholics

[archangel04]

Cafeteria Catholics… Lukewarm Catholics… Cultural Catholics… Self-excommunicated by their own disobedience… Irreverent Catholics… Damned to eternal hell…

What I always try to remember is that I was not unlike that person long ago, and that I have no idea when that person may be converted. What I always try to remember is that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone, least of all myself.

God waited patiently for me - waited 43 years - all the time keeping me safe from harm, keeping me alive and safe in spite of my every attempt to kill myself through drugs, car wrecks, smoking and drinking, and just general stupidity. I was bound in a lifestyle of habitual sin and I’m sure many looked at me as an uneducated, disobedient, cafateria Catholic who was not worthy of the sacraments and damned by my own choices, by my own free will, to eternity in Hell. I remember in my mid-20’s, a woman I worked with and one of my former teachers from high school talking about me right in front of me like I wasn’t even there. They were wagging their heads and saying that I might as well just go overdose on drugs right then-and-there because that is what was going to happen eventually anyway and that I was just a waste of life. What they said still hurt, in spite of the drugs.

But God waited patiently for 43 years, slowly getting me to quit drugs and cut my hair, giving me a wife and and children - which I didn’t deserve - and using them to teach me responsiblity. When my daughter died, God gave me a chance to turn to him but I wasn’t ready so he waited patiently for another dozen years while I continued in sin, until the departure of my wife finally broke me and I had no place to go but to God. And the whole time, God kept me safe and out of harms way because he knew that it was just a matter of time. The whole time he called to me, whispered to me, said “Psssst! Over here…”, and slowly changed me, imperceptively, until I was ready. God had a plan which I wasn’t aware of.

When I see “Cafateria Catholics”, I see myself. When I see lukewarm Catholic, I see myself. When I see uncatechized Catholics or people who are addicted to sin or who recieve the Eucharist in a state of sin, I see myself. I try to remember that not long ago, I was exactly like them. And I try to always remember that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone. He could have big plans for that cafateria Catholic, or that sinner, or that sex addict, or that guy who shows up at Mass in bermuda shorts and topsiders. I have no idea when that person is going to be converted. I don’t know God’s plan for anyone, let alone myself.

That’s one of the reasons why I chose St. Augustine as my confirmation saint. He was a drinker and bound by slavery to habitual sexual sin. But God can convert anyone, and we really don’t know who or when it will happen. St. Augustine and I undersand that.

Go easy on the guy in bermuda shorts and topsiders because he may be at Mass to pray to God that he be granted freedom from addiction to porn. Give the guy in a sweatshirt and sneakers a break because he might have just had his frist sober month in many hears and those are all the clothes he owns. Cut the Methodist husband of that Catholic woman a break, because he doesn’t understand - it’s not his fault - and he just might read John 6 one day and suddenly it all makes sense.

Lighten up a little… please. We don’t know God’s plan.

-Tim-

Most of us don’t have a problem with uneducated Catholics who do things our of “ignorance”. We have a problem with those who are not ignorant and still choose to be cafeteria catholics and wish to impose their ideologies to the faithful. I’ve suffered through much addiction and still do. I fight temptation every day to the point that I sometimes wish to give up. When you have cafeteria catholics making you feel like the traditions which are bringing you back to God, slowly but surely, are worthless and for ignorant folks it too makes me feel sad.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hello.

Do you mean by “go easy,” that permissiveness should be kept as the status quo? That we don’t need to be more reverent at Mass, which includes how we dress?

Do you mean by “go easy” we all ought to forget about admonishing the sinner, which is a work of mercy?

I think “going easy” has got morality in this country where it is now.

I have also experienced some of what you’ve discussed - lukewarm, sacrilegious, and the thing that helped me return to attempting to practice the Catholic faith were the words of someone who did NOT go easy on me, but did NOT go easy on me with love.

I think much of the problem has been too much permissiveness and a lack of accountability on many levels.

And not putting God’s will first in my life.

I don’t mean, though, that we should ever mistreat a fellow sinner with criticism, disdain and condescension.

The problem is those who approach with condescending attitudes rather than charity. I don’t see why we can’t approach others in charity. Its not an either/or situation that if we don’t come down hard on someone, it means we’re permissive. I don’t see why we have to view it that way.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Although I was never a fallen-away Catholic who got into the lifestyle issues described, I had allowed my faith to grow stale, bland, insipid, and rote. One day when I was going through the scriptures, reading with about as much enthusiasm as one would read a phone book, Christ’s words jumped out at me, “I have come to set the world on fire. How I wish that it were already lit!”

**At those words I went into a state of shock, realizing that the light I was letting shine to the world was about ten watts. Sure, I was faithful to the Lord, and the teachings of the Church. But it was a wooden, stilted and stuporous faith.
**
I went on retreat, and honestly asked myself what I had believed all my life meant to me. Christ was asking me–“who do YOU say I am, Odile?” And I had to dig down into the bottom of what soul I had left to answer that question, and even further to determine precisely what it was that I would do with the answer to that question.

I’m happy to say that as a result of those questions and that retreat, I was able to freshen up my faith, and again approach God with reverence, awe, and most of all, enthusiasm. Loss of faith doesn’t necessarily lead to a crash and burn in this world, and sometimes some of the ninety-nine sheep that never strayed externally get lost on their own little tangents and preoccupations without ever leaving the fold.

Conversion doesn’t have to be dramatic: We who have been faithfully stupefied are in as much danger of losing our immortal souls, and stand in as much need of the mercy of God as any “notorious sinner.” And although it isn’t really mentioned in the Bible, I’m sure that there is at least some rejoicing in heaven when the stupefied sheep shake their heads and wake up to their mission to glorify His holy name.

I think that can explain me. I hope I can get better over time.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Someone on here called me a cafeteria Catholic the other day. What in the …] is a cafeteria Catholic? The first impediment to forming a community is having convenient labels for everybody. Whatever happened to “Chreasters”? (those who only go to church on Christmas and Easter).

I assume cafeteria Catholic means “lukewarm,” but the truth is that I’ve forgotten more theology than most people ever learn.

Glad that you’re over all of that.

Cafeteria Catholics are those who reject certain teachings of the Church but accept others to make the faith what they want it to be. St Augustine is attributed to this quote, and it applies to cafeteria Catholics:

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.

~ Saint Augustine

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Well, Tim must be busy but the reason I asked if he was still attending mass and praying during that time is that I believe there is a difference between a fallen-away Catholic who is really not paying attention to God at all (that person is completely blinded) and someone who attends mass regularly but chooses to believe only what they are comfortable with.

This crossed my mind as well. There is a big difference between the two because the cafeteria Catholic who goes to mass and prays has a pretty big chance of being converted. I was like that for about 10 years and never thought there was something wrong with me and my faith. (The church was at fault of course and I was patiently waiting for it to change to my tastes). And then - wham - God hit me like a ton of bricks. It was a painful experience but the best thing that ever happened to me.I sometimes forget the truth about my own past and get irritated with the cafeteria crowd but God always manages to remind me about humility.

 

[Cat]

Cafeteria Catholics… Lukewarm Catholics… Cultural Catholics… Self-excommunicated by their own disobedience… Irreverent Catholics… Damned to eternal hell…

What I always try to remember is that I was not unlike that person long ago, and that I have no idea when that person may be converted. What I always try to remember is that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone, least of all myself.

God waited patiently for me - waited 43 years - all the time keeping me safe from harm, keeping me alive and safe in spite of my every attempt to kill myself through drugs, car wrecks, smoking and drinking, and just general stupidity. I was bound in a lifestyle of habitual sin and I’m sure many looked at me as an uneducated, disobedient, cafateria Catholic who was not worthy of the sacraments and damned by my own choices, by my own free will, to eternity in Hell. I remember in my mid-20’s, a woman I worked with and one of my former teachers from high school talking about me right in front of me like I wasn’t even there. They were wagging their heads and saying that I might as well just go overdose on drugs right then-and-there because that is what was going to happen eventually anyway and that I was just a waste of life. What they said still hurt, in spite of the drugs.

But God waited patiently for 43 years, slowly getting me to quit drugs and cut my hair, giving me a wife and and children - which I didn’t deserve - and using them to teach me responsiblity. When my daughter died, God gave me a chance to turn to him but I wasn’t ready so he waited patiently for another dozen years while I continued in sin, until the departure of my wife finally broke me and I had no place to go but to God. And the whole time, God kept me safe and out of harms way because he knew that it was just a matter of time. The whole time he called to me, whispered to me, said “Psssst! Over here…”, and slowly changed me, imperceptively, until I was ready. God had a plan which I wasn’t aware of.

When I see “Cafateria Catholics”, I see myself. When I see lukewarm Catholic, I see myself. When I see uncatechized Catholics or people who are addicted to sin or who recieve the Eucharist in a state of sin, I see myself. I try to remember that not long ago, I was exactly like them. And I try to always remember that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone. He could have big plans for that cafateria Catholic, or that sinner, or that sex addict, or that guy who shows up at Mass in bermuda shorts and topsiders. I have no idea when that person is going to be converted. I don’t know God’s plan for anyone, let alone myself.

That’s one of the reasons why I chose St. Augustine as my confirmation saint. He was a drinker and bound by slavery to habitual sexual sin. But God can convert anyone, and we really don’t know who or when it will happen. St. Augustine and I undersand that.

Go easy on the guy in bermuda shorts and topsiders because he may be at Mass to pray to God that he be granted freedom from addiction to porn. Give the guy in a sweatshirt and sneakers a break because he might have just had his frist sober month in many hears and those are all the clothes he owns. Cut the Methodist husband of that Catholic woman a break, because he doesn’t understand - it’s not his fault - and he just might read John 6 one day and suddenly it all makes sense.

Lighten up a little… please. We don’t know God’s plan.

-Tim-

This is very beautiful and thought-provoking. Thank you.

I’m guessing that many who saw old Joseph and his very young and pregnant wife stumbling exhausted and poor into Bethlehem probably didn’t think highly of them.

I think it’s a question of how the Holy Spirit leads you to act when you are confronted with a “cafeteria” Catholic. If He leads you to speak up, get involved, admonish, correct, or confront–then do so, and He will bless your efforts because it is His plan for you to get involved and bring the sinner back. See James 5: 19-20.

But if the Hoy Spirit does NOT lead you to get involved with the person, then let it go and don’t dwell on something that is not yours to deal with. Ask God to use someone else to intervene and help the person to come back home.

 

[Boulder257]

Cafeteria Catholics… Lukewarm Catholics… Cultural Catholics… Self-excommunicated by their own disobedience… Irreverent Catholics… Damned to eternal hell…

What I always try to remember is that I was not unlike that person long ago, and that I have no idea when that person may be converted. What I always try to remember is that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone, least of all myself.

God waited patiently for me - waited 43 years - all the time keeping me safe from harm, keeping me alive and safe in spite of my every attempt to kill myself through drugs, car wrecks, smoking and drinking, and just general stupidity. I was bound in a lifestyle of habitual sin and I’m sure many looked at me as an uneducated, disobedient, cafateria Catholic who was not worthy of the sacraments and damned by my own choices, by my own free will, to eternity in Hell. I remember in my mid-20’s, a woman I worked with and one of my former teachers from high school talking about me right in front of me like I wasn’t even there. They were wagging their heads and saying that I might as well just go overdose on drugs right then-and-there because that is what was going to happen eventually anyway and that I was just a waste of life. What they said still hurt, in spite of the drugs.

But God waited patiently for 43 years, slowly getting me to quit drugs and cut my hair, giving me a wife and and children - which I didn’t deserve - and using them to teach me responsiblity. When my daughter died, God gave me a chance to turn to him but I wasn’t ready so he waited patiently for another dozen years while I continued in sin, until the departure of my wife finally broke me and I had no place to go but to God. And the whole time, God kept me safe and out of harms way because he knew that it was just a matter of time. The whole time he called to me, whispered to me, said “Psssst! Over here…”, and slowly changed me, imperceptively, until I was ready. God had a plan which I wasn’t aware of.

When I see “Cafateria Catholics”, I see myself. When I see lukewarm Catholic, I see myself. When I see uncatechized Catholics or people who are addicted to sin or who recieve the Eucharist in a state of sin, I see myself. I try to remember that not long ago, I was exactly like them. And I try to always remember that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone. He could have big plans for that cafateria Catholic, or that sinner, or that sex addict, or that guy who shows up at Mass in bermuda shorts and topsiders. I have no idea when that person is going to be converted. I don’t know God’s plan for anyone, let alone myself.

That’s one of the reasons why I chose St. Augustine as my confirmation saint. He was a drinker and bound by slavery to habitual sexual sin. But God can convert anyone, and we really don’t know who or when it will happen. St. Augustine and I undersand that.

Go easy on the guy in bermuda shorts and topsiders because he may be at Mass to pray to God that he be granted freedom from addiction to porn. Give the guy in a sweatshirt and sneakers a break because he might have just had his frist sober month in many hears and those are all the clothes he owns. Cut the Methodist husband of that Catholic woman a break, because he doesn’t understand - it’s not his fault - and he just might read John 6 one day and suddenly it all makes sense.

Lighten up a little… please. We don’t know God’s plan.

-Tim-

Well said my friend.

 

[Nom_the_Wise]

Cafeteria Catholics are those who reject certain teachings of the Church but accept others to make the faith what they want it to be. St Augustine is attributed to this quote, and it applies to cafeteria Catholics:

Thank you for clearing that up. That’s actually a very specific thing. So the “cafeteria” metaphor refers to picking and choosing what you’re going to eat (or believe), as if at a cafeteria. Then the person that called me that misunderstood its usage.

 

[TimothyH]

All I’m saying is don’t condemn anyone to Hell.

Someone on another thread railed that cafeteria Catholics had excommunicated themselves. That’s nonsense. They went on about how they had done mortal damage to their eternal soul and such things.

Why can’t we understand that for some it is a very long, extremely slow process, and understand that God might have a plan for that person which will only be revealed 10 or 20 years from now. Sure it hurts us to see them now, but we must trust that God can do it. Don’t we trust God? Look at the theif on the cross.

I’m sorry about the title, that I tricked everyone with a misleading title. I read a post last night where someone condemned lukewarm, cafeteria, partially obedient Catholics, as if they had no hope, and it made me incredibly sad because not too long ago that was me.

I would become a Methodist if I thought that our Church was filled only with people who condemn. But most of the posts here are very heartening.

-Tim-

 

[mathematoons]

I’m sick of them too, precisely because I used to be a liberal atheist. I have no patience for that garbage becaue it’s too much like what I left. Some on CAF disparagingly call them “Protestant,” but I don’t like that label because it implies that they are somehow Christian. Like St. Augustine said, they don’t believe in the Gospel, they believe in themselves.

That being said, we still need to treat them with kindness, just as we would any other non-Christian. What makes it difficult is that they, like Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, claim to be Christian.

 

[TimothyH]

I’m sick of them too, precisely because I used to be a liberal atheist. I have no patience for that garbage becaue it’s too much like what I left. Some on CAF disparagingly call them “Protestant,” but I don’t like that label because it implies that they are somehow Christian. Like St. Augustine said, they don’t believe in the Gospel, they believe in themselves.

That being said, we still need to treat them with kindness, just as we would any other non-Christian. What makes it difficult is that they, like Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, claim to be Christian.

I’m not sick of them. They are me ten years ago.

You say “Treat them with kindness”. What do you mean by that?

How is labeling someones belief “Garbage” showing kindness? How is being sick of anyone showing kindness?

-Tim-

 

[Nom_the_Wise]

“Love your enemies” is probably the least applied teaching of Christ.

 

[Nom_the_Wise]

“Love your enemies” is probably the least applied teaching of Christ.

That, and visiting people in prison as if you were showing kindness to Christ himself.

 

[Boulder257]

I’m sick of them too, precisely because I used to be a liberal atheist. I have no patience for that garbage becaue it’s too much like what I left. Some on CAF disparagingly call them “Protestant,” but I don’t like that label because it implies that they are somehow Christian. Like St. Augustine said, they don’t believe in the Gospel, they believe in themselves.

That being said, we still need to treat them with kindness, just as we would any other non-Christian. What makes it difficult is that they, like Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, claim to be Christian.

 

[Luvtosew]

All I’m saying is don’t condemn anyone to Hell.

Someone on another thread railed that cafeteria Catholics had excommunicated themselves. That’s nonsense. They went on about how they had done mortal damage to their eternal soul and such things.

Why can’t we understand that for some it is a very long, extremely slow process, and understand that God might have a plan for that person which will only be revealed 10 or 20 years from now. Sure it hurts us to see them now, but we must trust that God can do it. Don’t we trust God? Look at the theif on the cross.

I’m sorry about the title, that I tricked everyone with a misleading title. I read a post last night where someone condemned lukewarm, cafeteria, partially obedient Catholics, as if they had no hope, and it made me incredibly sad because not too long ago that was me.

I would become a Methodist if I thought that our Church was filled only with people who condemn. But most of the posts here are very heartening.

-Tim-

Thanks Tim for restating your original post.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

I am soo disappointed! I feel duped! Complete bait and switch!!! NO FAIR!! Just when I thought I had stumbled upon a Kick-them-to-the-curb rant about cafeteria Catholics it turns out to be all forgiveness and stuff. I demand a full refund or whatever, but I’m demanding it so pay up buddy!

 

[OraLabora]

Great post TimothyH; been there, done that. Today’s lukewarm, “chooses to be ignorant” Catholic may just be tomorrow’s saint.

And it could just be that the “lukewarm” Catholic’s faith runs deeper than we think.

It’s easy to be superficially “correct” about the faith, but not have it run very deep. I know some people like that; scrupulously correct on the surface, but deep down… nothing. I can show you people at Mass who are the most reverent, behaved, correct Catholics at Mass, but their personal lives are a mess… divorced, sleeping around, etc., and yet those who are sloppy, irreverent, do not know their place in the liturgy, but whom I would trust with my life.

I was taken aback when I saw your title and wasn’t going to bother reading the thread, but when I read the post, I realized that was a mistake!

The old adage: never judge a book by its cover… it’s a good rule to remember.

God bless,

 

[Joe_5859]

Yes, Tim, this is definitely not the OP I expected to read based off the title! And thank God for that!

Thank you for sharing a bit of your story, Tim. I think it’s a great reminder, especially heading into Christmas where the influx of “Chreasters” (as Nom so eloquently put it ) can lead us more easily to such negative thoughts about our brothers and sisters in Christ.

It makes me wonder how my life would have been different if CAF was around when I was in college and having doubts about my faith, all the while never missing Mass on Sunday. If I posted here some of the thoughts I was thinking back then, I’m sure someone could have (albeit accurately) lobbed the “cafeteria Catholic” label upon me. But that probably would have only entrenched me further in my incorrect ways of thinking rather than leading me to conversion.

We’re all in different places on the journey and we all travel at different speeds. It’s better for us to build each other up than knock each other down.

 

[Debora123]

I am soo disappointed! I feel duped! Complete bait and switch!!! NO FAIR!! Just when I thought I had stumbled upon a Kick-them-to-the-curb rant about cafeteria Catholics it turns out to be all forgiveness and stuff. I demand a full refund or whatever, but I’m demanding it so pay up buddy!

Haha.

Honestly though, I think there truly were many people who read the title and then became very disappointed when they read the thread… and for the reasons you stated above. (“it’s not a thread about bashing others so that we can feel more holy about ourselves? Boo!!”).

I mean, just look at the rating… this post by Tim WAS rated as a “terrible” (one star) before I rated it a 5 star and bumped it up to a 2 star rating of just “bad.”

 

[Bearontherun]

Haha.

Honestly though, I think there truly were many people who read the title and then became very disappointing when they read the thread… and for the reasons you stated above. (“it’s not a thread about bashing others so that we can feel more holy about ourselves? Boo!!”).

I mean, just look at the rating… this post by Time WAS rated as a “terrible” (one star) before I rated it a 5 star and bumped it up to a 2 star rating of just “bad.”

Let’s be optimistic. I bet the “1 star” voter was someone who never took the time to read the post before voting.