I'm sick of the rabid Islamophobia on these boards...

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I wonder if some of you people hate Italians - because of the Mafia
or maybe you hate German - because of the Nazis
or maybe you hate Chinese, North Koreans and Cubans - because of Communism.

If you do, it’s because you believe the propaganda. These people are hearing propagand about how terrible we are. And you are contributing to it.

I have been in a lot of countries. I’ve been in North Africa, Western Europe, Eastern Europe and South-West Asia. The people are the same in every country I have been to. It is their politicians who promote hatred, with the help of the media. And it’s the same here.

Politicians and mainstream media create hatred against people. Muslims are getting the same treatment today by our politicians and media that Jews got in early Nazi Germany. The First Amendment is under attack by these people. And why not? They are undermining the Fourth and Fifth Amendment (unreasonable search and the right to an open trial, to face your accusers, no cruel an unusual punishment). And some of you are cheering as you lose your freedom, just like the Germans did.

It’s not the Muslims that you have to fear, it’s those who are destroying the Bill of Rights.
 
abu_kamoon said:
I wonder if some of you people hate Italians - because of the Mafia
or maybe you hate German - because of the Nazis
or maybe you hate Chinese, North Koreans and Cubans - because of Communism.
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If any of those groups had members that routinely flew planes into buildings or left back-pack bombs on busses and trains…most likely yes. Hate is not accurate nor is fear; justified caution is reasonable.
If you do, it’s because you believe the propaganda. These people are hearing propagand about how terrible we are. And you are contributing to it.
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Explosions that kill are not propaganda, it’s murder.
I have been in a lot of countries. I’ve been in North Africa, Western Europe, Eastern Europe and South-West Asia. The people are the same in every country I have been to. It is their politicians who promote hatred, with the help of the media. And it’s the same here.
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No, sometimes it is the people themselves.
Politicians and mainstream media create hatred against people. Muslims are getting the same treatment today by our politicians and media that Jews got in early Nazi Germany. The First Amendment is under attack by these people. And why not? They are undermining the Fourth and Fifth Amendment (unreasonable search and the right to an open trial, to face your accusers, no cruel an unusual punishment). And some of you are cheering as you lose your freedom, just like the Germans did.
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That is too simplistic. As a legal US citizen my rights have not been undermined. If the government searches my computer, my home, or my person illegaly I have legal recourse. How those legal protections have been extended or suspended to non-citizens is another matter. The US Constitution is for US citizens, not Afghani or Pakistani, or Saudi.
It’s not the Muslims that you have to fear, it’s those who are destroying the Bill of Rights.
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Do you really think a non-US foreign national here in the US illegally or legal has the 1st Amendment protected right to say “death to America”? Should non-citizens have the protection of the 1st Amendment to assemble and protest the government in America? Should they also have the right to bear arms?

American citizens have these rights to protect ourselves from our own governemnt, and to demand our government protect us from violent outside forces. Foreign nationals do not have these rights. Our Constitution and International Law did not address rogue fighters not affiliated with a nation that is subject to International Law or Treaty. When the Saudi national is found on the battlefield in Afghanistan fighting US forces what do you suggest the US do with him? When the Jordanian in Pakistan is talking with an Egyptian in the US plotting to blowup a US airport…what should the US do? If the Egyptian is a naturalized US citizen, US law and protections apply to him, but if he is not a US citizen- tough luck. If Jordan, Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia refuse or are unable to control their citizens I have every hope and confidence US Special Forces will.
 
abu_kamoon said:
I wonder if some of you people hate Italians - because of the Mafia
or maybe you hate German - because of the Nazis
or maybe you hate Chinese, North Koreans and Cubans - because of Communism.
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Dude,… no one here is ALLOWED to hate any person, unless they’re (one of us here) not Catholic.

We also aren’t allowed to hate that which holds truth, as some individual lines of the islamic holy books do.

We are allowed to hate evil, which are the actions of evil people (who must still be loved, by the way), and to take measures to combat those evil actions.
If you do, it’s because you believe the propaganda. These people are hearing propagand about how terrible we are. And you are contributing to it.
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“These people” are hearing evil people speak, and interpreting right action against evil actions as an “attack on them” because they are hearing EVIL PEOPLE SPEAK about THEIR enemies which make THEIR ENEMIES seem evil.

NOTHING we can do will change that, other than the “conversion” of those evil people to speaking the truth.
I have been in a lot of countries. I’ve been in North Africa, Western Europe, Eastern Europe and South-West Asia. The people are the same in every country I have been to. It is their politicians who promote hatred, with the help of the media. And it’s the same here.
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You are making the typical mistake of the leftist “all conflict is evil and must never be used” crowd.

You would rather blame “the media” and “the (anti-leftist) politicians” for the actions of evil people, because it’s “easier” (and more politically correct) due to your inherent bias againt “all things of the west” (ie western civilization).
Politicians and mainstream media create hatred against people. Muslims are getting the same treatment today by our politicians and media that Jews got in early Nazi Germany. The First Amendment is under attack by these people. And why not? They are undermining the Fourth and Fifth Amendment (unreasonable search and the right to an open trial, to face your accusers, no cruel an unusual punishment). And some of you are cheering as you lose your freedom, just like the Germans did.
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Your persecution complex, and paranoia, is showing.

To equate the US government with Nazi Germany is simply naive and juvenile.
It’s not the Muslims that you have to fear, it’s those who are destroying the Bill of Rights.
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Viva La Revolucion, comrad…!!

…now get real and grow up.

You’re welcome to your opinion, of course, and do by all means keep expressing it, as that’s how sensible people come to know the moon-bats and the dangerously childishly naive.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.
 
abu_kamoon said:
I wonder if some of you people hate Italians - because of the Mafia
or maybe you hate German - because of the Nazis
or maybe you hate Chinese, North Koreans and Cubans - because of Communism…
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Hi abu kamoon,

Do these people have scripture that they consider to be divinely inspired? If so (but I think not), I wonder what their scriptures read? I suspect these people have not hidden their evil agendas under their scripture.

I think you admitted earlier that you haven’t read Islamic scripture, so chances are you probably don’t know too much about these people too. So, I don’t know why you want to mention them - except to divert the thread from Islamophobia.
 
I still want the OP, Generic Man, to either show how we are all rubes or apologize for his original post.

CDL
 
"Do these people have scripture that they consider to be divinely inspired? If so (but I think not), I wonder what their scriptures read? I suspect these people have not hidden their evil agendas under their scripture.

I think you admitted earlier that you haven’t read Islamic scripture, so chances are you probably don’t know too much about these people too. So, I don’t know why you want to mention them - except to divert the thread from Islamophobia."

I don’t consider their scripture divinly inspired. That’s not the point. They are people. And people are responsible for their actions, not their religious beliefs.

Today, our politicians legislate thought crimes. It’s not enough to murder a person. We have to take into consideration whether the person who was murdered was a different color than the murderer. This is nonsense. Murder is murder.

People need to be held accountable for their actions, not what was going through their mind, or their personal beliefs. Are we to have a society where we can be punished for the wrong thoughts?

I have known hundreds of Muslims. Can you say the same? I base my opinions on what I have observed, not on what someone writes on the Internet, or hears on TV. I try to see each person as an individual, not as a member of a group.

Look at the way the media portrays Catholic priests. People who are pro-life are frequently accused of being terrorists. If you go back to the first two centuries AD, you will find things said about Christians that are worse than our media and our politicians are saying about Muslims.

I can’t believe how easily people are taken in by propaganda. Talk to some of these people. Don’t believe what others say about them. They are no better or no worse than we are.
 
abu_kamoon said:
"Do these people have scripture that they consider to be divinely inspired? If so (but I think not), I wonder what their scriptures read? I suspect these people have not hidden their evil agendas under their scripture.

I think you admitted earlier that you haven’t read Islamic scripture, so chances are you probably don’t know too much about these people too. So, I don’t know why you want to mention them - except to divert the thread from Islamophobia."
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People are certainly responsible for their religious beliefs…!

How can you claim otherwise?
Today, our politicians legislate thought crimes. It’s not enough to murder a person. We have to take into consideration whether the person who was murdered was a different color than the murderer. This is nonsense. Murder is murder.
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Hear hear…!!
People need to be held accountable for their actions, not what was going through their mind, or their personal beliefs. Are we to have a society where we can be punished for the wrong thoughts?
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I agree with you absolutely…!!
I have known hundreds of Muslims. Can you say the same? I base my opinions on what I have observed, not on what someone writes on the Internet, or hears on TV. I try to see each person as an individual, not as a member of a group.
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Super Hear Hear…!!!
Look at the way the media portrays Catholic priests. People who are pro-life are frequently accused of being terrorists. If you go back to the first two centuries AD, you will find things said about Christians that are worse than our media and our politicians are saying about Muslims.
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I’ve no disagreement with you here. 🙂
I can’t believe how easily people are taken in by propaganda. Talk to some of these people. Don’t believe what others say about them. They are no better or no worse than we are.
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YOU are talking about one set of people.

WE are talking about another set of people.

You seem to think that calling ANY moslem a “bad guy” is to call ALL moslems “bad guys”.

Best to 'ya, you seeming “islamo-fascist camoflage outfitter and haberdasher”, you…!

…no offense, of course. 🙂

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.
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I have to disagree, abu kamoon. I, too, have known hundreds of Muslims. Some of my relatives are Muslims. However, they are different from us - their religious beliefs make them different. Islam has changed their perspective and world view.

The West is different - you will see Westerners concerned about minority rights and removing oppression of disadvantaged groups. There are people like you who even think that we should not generalize against Muslims.

However, in the Islamic world, where is this? Where is the concern by Muslims of their own oppression of non-Muslims? Where is the concern by Egyptian Muslims about their oppression of the Christian copts?

Who do you think is oppressing the copts? The everyday Muslim you seem to think is blameless.

Of course we are not saying every Muslim is a jihadist - but they are all blameworthy for believing, supporting and teaching the jihadist, anti-disbeliever ideology that is Islam

It is as if you are so willing to excuse the Nazis for voting for Hitler. If you want to talk about personal responsibility - each and every Muslim should leave that hateful religion of Islam. Then will I consider them free of the Islamic guilt.
 
abu_kamoon said:
… I have known hundreds of Muslims. Can you say the same? I base my opinions on what I have observed, not on what someone writes on the Internet, or hears on TV. I try to see each person as an individual, not as a member of a group…
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Great. Now, read their scripture.
 
EWTN just presented an interview w/ a Chaldean Catholic Bishop that was in Basra a couple years ago. He stated the Islamic sides, both Sunni and Shiiti are murdering the Christians and forcing them to flee to Ninevah. The moderates Islamic peoples are not rebelling against the radicals. It makes one wonder why not!!
 
DanB said:
EWTN just presented an interview w/ a Chaldean Catholic Bishop that was in Basra a couple years ago. He stated the Islamic sides, both Sunni and Shiiti are murdering the Christians and forcing them to flee to Ninevah. The moderates Islamic peoples are not rebelling against the radicals. It makes one wonder why not!!
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Yes, while our “pro-Christian” government in the US does nothing to help these native Christians of Iraq!

Pope John Paul foresaw that a US war on Iraq would unleash the forces of Islamic sectarianism and endanger the ancient Christian communities of the region. That was one reason he spoke out against launching such a war.

It appals me that moderate Muslims are not rising in defence of their Christian brothers, but here I lament a human failing, not something we would be wise or just to blame entirely on these passive bystanders’ following Islam.

In WWII Europe, how many Christians rose up against the Nazis when the Nazis were slaughtering their Jewish brothers?

On the other hand, can we say for certain that in Iraq there is no handful of Muslims sheltering and assisting Christians just as there was a handful of Christians (our Pope Pius XII foremost) sheltering and assisting Jews during WWII?
 
Montalban said:
Actually the development of differences in Protestant nations because of Protestantism is known to many, including sociologist Max Weber, however you miss the fact YOU labelled them ‘Latin’ - ‘the west’ When areas became Protestant they thew off much of Catholicism.
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I am amazed – there are lots of people out there who build their whole careers on the assumption that “the West” has existed since before the Trojan War, and here you are slicing early modern Protestant Europe from medieval Latin Christendom!

As a Christian believer, I never speak of anyone having an absolute right to commit violence. I am only saying that Muslims believe that they have the right to resist what they see as aggression and oppression from the West, defined in either Christian or non-Christian terms. Clearly, many Christians see that they have the right to resist what they see as aggression or oppression by Muslims.

Perhaps, both sides are right and have the right. Or they are both wrong and do not have the right.

If we do not try to see the reasons that motivate others to act in a way that we consider unjust, how can we hope to develop the self-perception to avoid acting unjustly ourselves?

The “Islamic world” has reasons, old and new, to hate “the West” just as “the West,” has reasons, old and new, to hate the “Islamic world” - and these reasons do not have to do only with what happens to be written in the Qur’an or the Bible.
 
nonsumd said:
I am amazed – there are lots of people out there who build their whole careers on the assumption that “the West” has existed since before the Trojan War, and here you are slicing early modern Protestant Europe from medieval Latin Christendom!
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So what? You’re the one contending that ‘the West’ attacked Islam 200 years ago, and that’s the reason Islam’s against us (when I say ‘us’ I don’t include apologists such as yourself).

Then you want to say “Latin Europe” and include Spain, which is fine, but it was attacked by Islam - as you noted! So you’ve got to work out why Islam attacked ‘the West’ or ‘Latin Europe’ in the first century of Islam’s existence when such forces weren’t opposed to Islam - in fact Spain had probably never heard of Muhammed.
nonsumd said:
As a Christian believer, I never speak of anyone having an absolute right to commit violence. I am only saying that Muslims believe that they have the right to resist what they see as aggression and oppression from the West, defined in either Christian or non-Christian terms. Clearly, many Christians see that they have the right to resist what they see as aggression or oppression by Muslims.
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No? But you’re trying to ‘contextualise it’ and you’re building false representations of history to do so. Funny that.
nonsumd said:
Perhaps, both sides are right and have the right. Or they are both wrong and do not have the right.
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What right did Islam have to attack people that had never heard of Islam?

And, I challenged you to come up with evidence that Rome had warred over Arabia. Where’s this evidence?

🤷
 
DanB said:
EWTN just presented an interview w/ a Chaldean Catholic Bishop that was in Basra a couple years ago. He stated the Islamic sides, both Sunni and Shiiti are murdering the Christians and forcing them to flee to Ninevah. The moderates Islamic peoples are not rebelling against the radicals. It makes one wonder why not!!
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On October 21 Bishop Ibrahim N Ibrahim, Chaldean Catholic Bishop, will be the featured speaker at an Iraqi Christian benefit. See this website for details thattheyallbeone.com/

I pray that you all will consider registering and coming.

CDL
 
This may seem political but in actuality it is a War of Faith–Islam against Christianity. Just like in the middle ages–remember Lepanto and Otranto. Prayer and the rosary defeated the Islamists, so we do have hope. But, considering the very true fact that the terrorists want to cut off our heads if we do not convert --how are we to know the difference between the peaceful Islamists and the others? The Koran teaches hate and war against the infidel–that’s us, --so do not the peaceful ones live according to their Koran?

Wake up America!!!

For more than a year now, I’ve been writing and speaking about the definitive threats of the Islamo-Fascists against the United States of America. I’ve gone so far as to warn anyone who will listen that our children or grandchildren will be fighting for their very lives, in hand-to-hand combat right here in our cities and farmlands. Few have listened.
This is their plan, as related to Jordanian journalist Fouad Hussein, after interviewing top al-Qaeda lieutenants for his 2005 book, Al-Zarquawi: Al-Qaeda’s Second Generation. (From the book On The Hunt by Colonel David Hunt, U.S. Army, Ret.)

Phase 1, “The Awakening”: The terrorists use attacks like 9/11 to provoke the United States into declaring war on the Islamic world, which will mobilize Islamic radicals, getting them to rally around Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda considers this phase complete.

Phase 2, “Opening Eyes”: During this period, which Hussein said would last until the end of 2006, the terrorists continue to form their secret battalions and show Muslims how to wage war on the “infidels” and the “Western conspiracy”.

Phase 3, “Arising and Standing Up”: This phase, which should last until 2010, will bring increasingly frequent attacks against secular Turkey and archenemy Israel. The aroused Muslims will go to war against the infidels, and the devastation that Israel will face will force world leaders to negotiate with Al-Qaeda.

Phase 4, “The Downfall”: This period will last until 2013 and will see the fall of hated Arab regimes, including Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Oil suppliers will be attacked and the U.S. economy will be targeted with cyber-terrorism. Al-Qaeda will control the Persian Gulf, the oil, and most of the Middle East, giving them enough power and resources to attack the U.S. economy and military forces.

Phase 5, “The Caliphate”: Sometime between 2013 and 2016, Al-Qaeda will establish the caliphate ---- that is, one government for all Muslim nations. All Western influences will be eliminated from the Muslim world. The caliphate will organize and army for the next phase.

Phase 6, “Total World Conquest”: Beginning in 2016, the Islamic army will begin the “fight between the believers and the non-believers” that Osama bin Laden has predicted. By 2022, the rest of the world will be conquered by the mighty and unstoppable armies of Islam.

Phase 7, “Definitive Victory”: By 2025, the army of “one and a half billion Muslims” will have proven their superiority. All the world’s inhabitants will be forced to convert to Islam, or be ruled by the caliphate as second-class citizens.

Are you angry enough yet? What will it take? How long are we going to tolerate the growing number of “Islamburgs” hidden deep within our national forests? The FBI and CIA know these places exist and that they’re teaching members how to make bombs and fire multiple types of weaponry. Oh, you haven’t heard about them? There are at least seven compounds located in upstate NY, WA, PA, and other states. The one in WA State is situated right across the water from our Navy Base at Whidbey Island, north of Seattle. What do you think they’re monitoring?
As a final thought, I have had a few lingering questions that won’t let me go. (1) Within days after the horror of 9/11, how was it possible for our news media to get pictures and names of the 19 terrorists who flew those planes? Their bodies must have disintegrated along with everyone else’s. Right? (2) Did Saudi Arabia send us the list? (3) How did we obtain that information so fast?
What the hell is going on here? Americans, you have to wake up! If not for yourself, won’t you do it for your kids?
 
P.S. on my last post.
I must give the writer his due.
The information was written by Robert DeMotte who is running for congress in Spokane, WA next year. This information is well-documented and proven.
 
cavanlass said:
Phase 1, “The Awakening”: The terrorists use attacks like 9/11 to provoke the United States into declaring war on the Islamic world, which will mobilize Islamic radicals, getting them to rally around Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda considers this phase complete.
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Well, the easy and logical way to combat that would be for the USA to refuse to be provoked. Going to war in Iraq and executing a former US ally, Sadam Hussein, does nothing except to further inflame the bad feelings between Islamic militants and the West, and provoke a civil war in Iraq. What is needed is a peaceful and respectful approach.
 
True, Bob, but where do you draw the line in the sand? Does anyone know?
 
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