I'm so confused.

[damooster]

(Warning: long-winded post ahead).

A few weeks ago, at the end of Mass, I heard a woman introduce another female as “her partner” to a group of friends. At first, I was very angry that someone could be so disrespectful in God’s place of worship, but then I realized that I could have misunderstood what she meant by “partner.”

Fast forward to this evening…

Even though I’m in RCIA, and not a member of this parish, I started attending our Social Justice committee meetings because I enjoy doing a lot of volunteer work.

At the meeting this evening, someone brought up a ministry group, within this parish, called GLFF, which stands for Gay, Lesbian, Family, and Friends. Apparently it was created after one of our previous head pastors admitted to being homosexual just before his death, and the aim of the group is to bring attention to social justice issues of the gay community within our parish.

After the meeting, I asked the woman who brought up the GLFF to tell me more about this group, and the first thing she says is “this parish is very open-minded.” She went on to point out that the buttons I see people wearing (big white ones that say One Happy Family) at the parish, during Mass, are references to the GLFF. She went on to tell me that one of the sponsors in my RCIA class is actually a transgender.

I’m so confused! I mean, I don’t want people to think that I want to condemn homosexuals and transgenders. I don’t hate homosexuals at all (my uncles is gay), but it seems like the parish is embracing these ideals. So, I guess I’m trying to understand…am I supposed to embrace them as openly as the church seems to do? Am I wrong for feeling kind of betrayed?

These are legitimate questions; I’m seriously trying to understand how my opinions may differ from Church teachings and stances.

Thanks for your help and I really hope that I don’t sound judgmental.

 

[palmas85]

(Warning: long-winded post ahead).

A few weeks ago, at the end of Mass, I heard a woman introduce another female as “her partner” to a group of friends. At first, I was very angry that someone could be so disrespectful in God’s place of worship, but then I realized that I could have misunderstood what she meant by “partner.”

Fast forward to this evening…

Even though I’m in RCIA, and not a member of this parish, I started attending our Social Justice committee meetings because I enjoy doing a lot of volunteer work.

At the meeting this evening, someone brought up a ministry group, within this parish, called GLFF, which stands for Gay, Lesbian, Family, and Friends. Apparently it was created after one of our previous head pastors admitted to being homosexual just before his death, and the aim of the group is to bring attention to social justice issues of the gay community within our parish.

After the meeting, I asked the woman who brought up the GLFF to tell me more about this group, and the first thing she says is “this parish is very open-minded.” She went on to point out that the buttons I see people wearing (big white ones that say One Happy Family) at the parish, during Mass, are references to the GLFF. She went on to tell me that one of the sponsors in my RCIA class is actually a transgender.

I’m so confused! I mean, I don’t want people to think that I want to condemn homosexuals and transgenders. I don’t hate homosexuals at all (my uncles is gay), but it seems like the parish is embracing these ideals. So, I guess I’m trying to understand…am I supposed to embrace them as openly as the church seems to do? Am I wrong for feeling kind of betrayed?

These are legitimate questions; I’m seriously trying to understand how my opinions may differ from Church teachings and stances.

Thanks for your help and I really hope that I don’t sound judgmental.

Gays and lesbians are people just like you and I. Some chose that way of life, I think most do, just based on my experience and some are born into it. The Church does not hate or condemn them for what they are. No the Church recognizes them and loves them.

However, the Church does indeed condemn any and all sexual acts that come about from these relationships, just as it does for sexual relationships that happen outside of marriage with straight people… Homosexual sex acts are defined as gravely disordered and must not be done.

Having a support group to help these people in dealing with that particular cross is fine. Homosexuals male and female are called to lives of celibacy for one reason or another and that can be a very difficult thing. Trust me on this one, I know:thumbsup:

But having a group that supports their lifestyle choices, such as sexual relationships between gays and lesbians and the horrific results of transgendering are quite wrong and should be avoided.

 

[Peirs]

well I’m no expert but i personally believe that the act of being homosexual is a sin, well actually engaging in homosexual acts is a sin.

the Vatican has stated, not sure were though, that to be homosexual is not a sin, but to commit homosexual acts is a sin because it falls somewhere along the lines of fornication. since a Gay marriage" isn;t accepted as a valid marriage in the Catholic church then any homosexual partners who engage in sexual acts together are in a state of mortal sin.

The Vatican has stated also that if you are gay then to avoid the sin you must live a chaste life. many priests and Saints have been gay infact, and I’m not talking about the one who gained the priest molesting little boys jokes for us.

really i think if the group is trying to promote gay marriage as being a good thing then you need to explain to them why it’s wrong. if its going along with what i just mentioned then it’s all ok. but from the sounds of it i think you’re in the midst of a very very liberal parish

also you might wana pick up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and check out its say on gay marriage. hope this has helped. if there’s anything i can expand on please don’t hesitate to contact me

~Peirs

 

[japhy]

As the Catechism (2357-2359) states: “homosexual acts [are] acts of grave depravity [and] are intrinsically disordered” (2357), but “men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies … must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity” (2358), and – just like unmarried heterosexuals – “are called to chastity” (2359).

As for homosexual “marriages” or unions, this brief document is well worth a read: CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS.

 

[Eucharisted]

This is what the Church teaches about homosexuals and homoseuxality:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Source: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P85.HTM

Those with homosexual tendencies can be exemplars of chastity. Let us pray for them.

 

[damooster]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The quotes from the CCC really helped me understand not only the parish’s stance, but how I can be a better person.

Thank you.

 

[japhy]

The quotes from the CCC really helped me understand not only the parish’s stance, but how I can be a better person.

The Church does not approve of homosexuals having “partners” (in the sense of sexual partners), so I hope your parish does not. Companionship is one thing, a sexual relationship is quite another.

 

[1ke]

So, I guess I’m trying to understand…am I supposed to embrace them as openly as the church seems to do?

“The Church” does not embrace a gay, lesbian, or transgender lifestyle. The Church embraces same-sex attracted persons as children of God called to chastity.

Am I wrong for feeling kind of betrayed?

No. These people are in the wrong if they ar promoting homosexual relationships as “justice” for same sex attracted persons.

I’m seriously trying to understand how my opinions may differ from Church teachings and stances.

Church teaching is quite clear. Homosexual acts are gravely disordered. Persons with same sex attraction are called to live chastely.

If this parish is teaching something contrary to what the Church teaches, then I would suggest you look at other parishes in your city.

 

[turtle18]

The Church accepts homosexuals. The Church does not accept homosexual acts. Unfortunately, when most people hear that the Church “accepts homosexuals,” they take it to mean everything a homosexual does.

The concept of being chaste is foreign to most people, heterosexual or homosexual. It is a sad statement that we define our entire lifes by what we do with out sexual organs. We should be defining our lives by serving God and doing God’s will. When we fail to do that, we can seek his mercy and forgiveness in Reconcilation.

Your pastor planted a bad seed at your Church. Why can’t everyone wear a chastity button instead of an acceptance button?

Perhaps you should challenge your homosexual members to do some charity work that doesn’t involve homosexual interests. It is not really charity if you are volunteering for something that serves your self interest. Ask them to come to an abortion clinic and pray with you. Ask them to come down & do prison ministry. In other words, pick an “unglamorous” way to serve Christ and challenge them to develop their spirituality beyond their own self interests.

There are many unmarried heterosexual couples at Church who are living together. I am constantly astounded at the way the Church looks the other way when it comes to engaged couples who are living together. The attitude within the Church seems to be “oh they will get married and eventually come around to what is right and what is wrong” So I am not surprised that the next step is to look the other way with homosexual behavior either.

The underlying notion here is that you can’t say anything is wrong anymore because then you are “judging” someone. People should try to be good and do what is right all the time because that pleases the Father. But because we are human and weak, we are going to fall into sin. But people don’t even try anymore to be good and follow God.

I get so depressed sometimes by what I see is going on in the Church…if Jesus hadn’t said in the Bible that the gates of the netherworld would never prevail against our Church…I would have left a long time ago. But Jesus cannot by His very nature go back on His word so I figure I just have to have faith.

 

[damooster]

There are many unmarried heterosexual couples at Church who are living together. I am constantly astounded at the way the Church looks the other way when it comes to engaged couples who are living together. The attitude within the Church seems to be “oh they will get married and eventually come around to what is right and what is wrong” So I am not surprised that the next step is to look the other way with homosexual behavior either.

There are two unmarried couples, living together, that are going through RCIA with me. My sponsor also lives with his girlfriend. I personally try not to think about it, but should I? Should I ask my sponsor and the director about it?

Even if I were to “bring it up,” I’m not sure my questions would be welcomed. My parish is pretty liberal. I look back at the conversation I had with the woman about GLFF, and she told me the Church’s stance on homosexuality, but she said it in a way that led me to believe she didn’t accept it. She said that the Church expects same-sex people to live chastely, but then kind of shook her head and threw her hands up as if to say she didn’t believe that was possible.

I guess I’m just asking these questions because I feel like I owe something to the parish for accepting me in to RCIA (I joined a few weeks late) and would feel bad about parish shopping.

 

[kage_ar]

My sponsor also lives with his girlfriend. I personally try not to think about it, but should I? Should I ask my sponsor and the director about it?

Is this sponsor a friend or someone who was assigned to you?

Your sponsor should be someone you can help you in your Christian walk, be a “big brother or sister” in the Faith. If your sponsor is not practicing the Faith, well, they cannot be your sponsor. Find someone who is practicing, who loves Jesus and His Church.

Speak with your Priest about this.

 

[dans0622]

There are two unmarried couples, living together, that are going through RCIA with me. My sponsor also lives with his girlfriend. I personally try not to think about it, but should I? Should I ask my sponsor and the director about it?

Even if I were to “bring it up,” I’m not sure my questions would be welcomed. My parish is pretty liberal. I look back at the conversation I had with the woman about GLFF, and she told me the Church’s stance on homosexuality, but she said it in a way that led me to believe she didn’t accept it. She said that the Church expects same-sex people to live chastely, but then kind of shook her head and threw her hands up as if to say she didn’t believe that was possible.

I guess I’m just asking these questions because I feel like I owe something to the parish for accepting me in to RCIA (I joined a few weeks late) and would feel bad about parish shopping.

Hello damooster,

Having such a sponsor is absolutely absurd and is an insult to you and the RCIA program. As far as what would happen if you brought this up, it might not be good. But, you still have the right to, if you choose. As far as you “owing something” to the parish–I think it is the other way around. The parish, as a community of the Catholic faithful, owes you. You deserve to actually be initiated into the Catholic faith. Not some “liberal” manifestation of modern-day “faith” but the Catholic faith. That’s what you are in the RCIA for and if they don’t allow you to receive what you are asking for, you certainly could go elsewhere…in my opinion.

Dan

 

[damooster]

Is this sponsor a friend or someone who was assigned to you?

Your sponsor should be someone you can help you in your Christian walk, be a “big brother or sister” in the Faith. If your sponsor is not practicing the Faith, well, they cannot be your sponsor. Find someone who is practicing, who loves Jesus and His Church.

Speak with your Priest about this.

He was assigned to me. He is an ok guy; he’s younger than me (I’m 31, he’s 24), and his views on some things are different. He’s very knowledgeable in regards to Catholicism, but he just doesn’t always do the right thing I guess. I know his stance on some things, and they are in direct contradiction to the Church, and he knows it. We’ve had discussions before.

The priest probably knows about the situation with his girlfriend. He (my sponsor) is very well known within the church, as is his mom.

 

[damooster]

Hello damooster,

Having such a sponsor is absolutely absurd and is an insult to you and the RCIA program. As far as what would happen if you brought this up, it might not be good. But, you still have the right to, if you choose. As far as you “owing something” to the parish–I think it is the other way around. The parish, as a community of the Catholic faithful, owes you. You deserve to actually be initiated into the Catholic faith. Not some “liberal” manifestation of modern-day “faith” but the Catholic faith. That’s what you are in the RCIA for and if they don’t allow you to receive what you are asking for, you certainly could go elsewhere…in my opinion.

Dan

Thanks Dan.

I’ve decided to just ride it out until RCIA ends and register somewhere else. It kind of stinks that I have to settle, but I also look at it as a valuable learning lesson.

 

[turtle18]

He’s very knowledgeable in regards to Catholicism, but he just doesn’t always do the right thing I guess. I know his stance on some things, and they are in direct contradiction to the Church, and he knows it. We’ve had discussions before.

Boy, if that isn’t the definition of mortal sin, then I don’t know what is. Since he is your sponsor, why don’t you invite him to attend a Penance service with you? Better yet, since he is your sponsor ask him next time you see him what he considers mortal sin–don’t bring up anything he is doing–just find out what he considers a mortal sin. If he doesn’t believe in the Sacrament of Reconcilation, he has no business being your sponsor.

About the GLFF, the Church expects ***everyone ***to live chastely–even married people. We are not wild animals who are ruled by our passions.

 

[dans0622]

Thanks Dan.

I’ve decided to just ride it out until RCIA ends and register somewhere else. It kind of stinks that I have to settle, but I also look at it as a valuable learning lesson.

That’s a laudable response and can be very meritorious for you (suffering through these things, I mean). As long as you always know what’s right and wrong, you’ll be fine.

Dan