I'm so sneaky

[system]

You stop loving and caring someone and doing what you can to make their life better the second they turn eighteen?

Nope. Didn’t say that. You were talking about doing what YOU think is best for them and taking away their choice to make their own decision. Is that love? to make someone into an automaton? Unable to make their own choices and live by them?

What happened to ‘love your neighbour (let alone your husband) as yourself’? Doesn’t that involve caring about them enough to do what’s best for them, even if they don’t like it? I would hope people care enough about me to do so!

Interesting question. Do you go to your neighbor and pull the cigarette out of his mouth because it’s bad for him? If not, why not?

But your question is a tough one…it reminds of me of family situations where there’s disagreement on this sort of thing. Things ranging from tough love to totally enabling an addict.

 

[LilyM]

Nope. Didn’t say that. You were talking about doing what YOU think is best for them and taking away their choice to make their own decision. Is that love? to make someone into an automaton? Unable to make their own choices and live by them?

This isn’t a case of v doing what she alone thought was best - both the doctor and even her husband seem to have agreed that it was best that he take the Metamucil, but just didn’t like the idea of doing it for reasons of image.

 

[johntkd]

Interesting. As a rape victim myself I quite understand people should have the power to say no to something… However you seem to be skipping some of the facts here:

1. He said NO to Metamucil because it’s “an old peoples drug” not to all fiber.
2. He DID want to get rid of his Constipation
3. She gave him a smoothie with one ingredient that was fiber - Just like most other smoothies.

How far should a NO to Metamucil go? Metamucil is a form of fiber so no fiber ever? No vegetables? Are vegetables an old peoples drug? Where do you stop?

You have to consider the circumstances. I hate Cottage Cheese, If someone offered me some, I’d say no! However I have no objection to cottage cheese when cooked in a Lasagna. Should a person who knows I like Lasagna but hate Cottage cheese refuse to let me have Lasagna forever now… cause I said no to proffered cottage Cheese?

thats quite different and you know it, there are other fiber supplements out there besides the old age one anyways but lets say you loved lasagna and there wasnt cottage cheese in it, but someone knowing you hate it deliberatly put it into the meal, that wouldnt upset you, or fed you venison telling you its beef etc etc

 

[actorgirl]

FIBER in a smoothie?!? unheard of. What next? protein? omega 3?

heck that man, and most people, don’t realise half the **** that we put into out bodies. He should be so lucky someone is trying to slide a little goodness into his system.

Americans don’t get enough fiber. We don’t understand how important it is. I didn’t. Until my fiber loving husband turned me one to it

 

[Syele]

thats quite different and you know it, there are other fiber supplements out there besides the old age one anyways but lets say you loved lasagna and there wasnt cottage cheese in it, but someone knowing you hate it deliberatly put it into the meal, that wouldnt upset you, or fed you venison telling you its beef etc etc

It’s not different… you yourself admitted you didn’t know what a smoothie is. It’s perfectly normal to have added fiber in a smoothie… She didn’t say “This is not a smoothie! It’s a lack of fiber fruit drink!” It’d be pretty obvious she was lying if she had… a smoothie is a smoothie!

 

[johntkd]

We get a second opinion in the matter of something as serious as an abortion first of all. And we realise there’s an additional party involved too - the unborn child - who has status as an actual or potential human being and who needs to be considered.

In this case all parties have expressed their opinion, which is fine. A manifestly unreasonable attitude that effects both of them has less weight, I’m sorry. I fail to see why it should be given equal weight.

And we recognise that slipping a harmless fibre supplement into someone’s food or drink is nowhere near any line except in your own warped mind.

We all, on many occasions, eat food prepared by others than ourselves. It’s always a risk to do so. You assume that risk when you take the offered food.

After all, you never ever know what the baker might put into your bread or the Mickey D’s into your burger (how many of us honestly take the time to ask or to read the labels thoroughly?) and what effect it may end up having on you.

you are missing the point of deliberate trickery,deceit,and sneakyness to something they already knew the other didnt want.

lets change it around a bit lets say a couple is using NFP, the wife does not want to get pregnant yet, so the man waits till she is sound asleep maybe she takes a sleep aid as well, proceeds with initializations to deliberatly get her pregnant is that sneakyness? yes, deceitful? yes wrong? again yes
but the way lots of folks respond thats fair play cause its what one wants dont mater what the other wants or requests.

heres a better way to have done this
ok attention people due to rotten circumstances all foods prepared in this house will now contain a fiber supplement…

case closed honest upfront and truthful…
he either steps up and eats it or starves right, but at least there is no deceit, or sneakyness involved…and well within what would be considered a normal loving marriage where trust respect and honor abound…

 

[Syele]

you are missing the point of deliberate trickery,deceit,and sneakyness to something they already knew the other didnt want.

lets change it around a bit lets say a couple is using NFP, the wife does not want to get pregnant yet, so the man waits till she is sound asleep maybe she takes a sleep aid as well, proceeds with initializations to deliberatly get her pregnant is that sneakyness? yes, deceitful? yes wrong? again yes
but the way lots of folks respond thats fair play cause its what one wants dont mater what the other wants or requests.

heres a better way to have done this
ok attention people due to rotten circumstances all foods prepared in this house will now contain a fiber supplement…

case closed honest upfront and truthful…
he either steps up and eats it or starves right, but at least there is no deceit, or sneakyness involved…and well within what would be considered a normal loving marriage where trust respect and honor abound…

you are determined to focus on the playful title of the thread and not what actually happened. Putting fiber in a smoothie (Which is like having cheese in a quesidilla or sugar in a cookie or calcium in Milk) isn’t very sneaky. I give up.

 

[LilyM]

you are missing the point of deliberate trickery,deceit,and sneakyness to something they already knew the other didnt want.

lets change it around a bit lets say a couple is using NFP, the wife does not want to get pregnant yet, so the man waits till she is sound asleep maybe she takes a sleep aid as well, proceeds with initializations to deliberatly get her pregnant is that sneakyness? yes, deceitful? yes wrong? again yes
but the way lots of folks respond thats fair play cause its what one wants dont mater what the other wants or requests.

heres a better way to have done this
ok attention people due to rotten circumstances all foods prepared in this house will now contain a fiber supplement…

case closed honest upfront and truthful…
he either steps up and eats it or starves right, but at least there is no deceit, or sneakyness involved…and well within what would be considered a normal loving marriage where trust respect and honor abound…

And stupid and unnecessary arguments, therefore just as much chance of divorce for sure!

John, in what parallel universe is STARVING someone into taking their fibre any better than slipping it into their food without their knowing? Seriously? BOTH are methods that effectively undercut the person’s freewill.

 

[johntkd]

And stupid and unnecessary arguments, therefore just as much chance of divorce for sure!

John, in what parallel universe is STARVING someone into taking their fibre any better than slipping it into their food without their knowing? Seriously? BOTH are methods that effectively undercut the person’s freewill.

he could go get a grease burger at McDs and wont be constipated anymore the difference is in the knowing
thats the whole thing here.

 

[rayne89]

lets change it around a bit lets say a couple is using NFP, the wife does not want to get pregnant yet, so the man waits till she is sound asleep maybe she takes a sleep aid as well, proceeds with initializations to deliberatly get her pregnant is that sneakyness? yes, deceitful? yes wrong? again yes
but the way lots of folks respond thats fair play cause its what one wants dont mater what the other wants or requests.

The difference John is your example is a selfish act, something done in the best interest of the man. It’s done to fill his wants, his needs. Adding the fiber was done in the best interest of vluvski’s husband -out of love and concern for his health.

You can’t seem to distinguish between betweens acts of selfishness and malice and those of kindness and concern. Your example is one of marital rape- a huge difference from adding fiber for ones health.

What Vluvski did was not done to hurt her husband it was done to help him. She was not trying to be malicious -you seem to be having a hard time grasping that. My gut tells me that you have had experiences which have made it hard for you to be able to separate the two. Not everyone is out to hurt you. My husband has known me for 18 years -he trusts me, he trusts my judgement. And I trust him. He’s not going to poison me or have try to have me sterilized or something else outrageous.

You remind me of my FIL who also has major trust issues. He trusts no one, not even his wife of 35 years. He would flip out if his wife put anything in his food without his knowledge. He changed the locks on their home after my husband moved out because he thought he might come back and try to steal from them. He has a password nearly every program on his computer which he won’t even give to his wife. He would come up with these crazy scenarios you’ve put forth. I feel bad for him because it must be so scary and lonely to go through life this way. I know you probably feel like you’re getting beat up on on this thread. I’m sorry if that’s the case. I realize you have some kind of issues going on. Just know just because someone would fiber in their spouses smoothie does not mean that the next step is cyanide.

 

[johntkd]

The difference John is your example is a selfish act, something done in the best interest of the man. It’s done to fill his wants, his needs. Adding the fiber was done in the best interest of vluvski’s husband -out of love and concern for his health.

You can’t seem to distinguish between betweens acts of selfishness and malice and those of kindness and concern. Your example is one of marital rape- a huge difference from adding fiber for ones health.

What Vluvski did was not done to hurt her husband it was done to help him. She was not trying to be malicious -you seem to be having a hard time grasping that. My gut tells me that you have had experiences which have made it hard for you to be able to separate the two. Not everyone is out to hurt you. My husband has known me for 18 years -he trusts me, he trusts my judgement. And I trust him. He’s not going to poison me or have try to have me sterilized or something else outrageous.

You remind me of my FIL who also has major trust issues. He trusts no one, not even his wife of 35 years. He would flip out if his wife put anything in his food without his knowledge. He changed the locks on their home after my husband moved out because he thought he might come back and try to steal from them. He has a password nearly every program on his computer which he won’t even give to his wife. He would come up with these crazy scenarios you’ve put forth. I feel bad for him because it must be so scary and lonely to go through life this way. I know you probably feel like you’re getting beat up on on this thread. I’m sorry if that’s the case. I realize you have some kind of issues going on. Just know just because someone would fiber in their spouses smoothie does not mean that the next step is cyanide.

ahh but see there is some selfishness in what she did, she is tired of the “raunchy gas”
I just cannot understand how you could possibly have total trust in someone whom does something to you that you already made clear you didnt want to happen…

And yes I do have some very warranted trust issues going on.
I would never again let a DR knock me out for a surgery even if it was life or death, There is actually only one person in this whole world I trust, and no its is not a parent.

you dont deceive for any reason someone you love
I am terrible at surprise parties obviously…

 

[zzuftnnyl]

John, the fiber is from plant/vegetable sources. It is already in the fruit put in the smoothie. A smoothie is just a bunch of fruit maybe yogurt or wheat germ and whatever tastes good blended together. Stores that sell smoothies offer all sorts of ingredients like protein powder, vitamins, etc… Smoothies usually have healthy ingredients added to them. That is normal and expected. I think the OPs action is similar to this analogy…

Say a husband rides a motorcycle, but refuses to wear a helmet. He says, “Helmets look so uncool”. So the wife goes and buys a smaller, different shaped helmet more like a hat. And she adds some flame stickers to it. And she says, “Look at this cool hat, honey. You’d look so cool riding your bike in this hat.” So, he goes off and wears it. She might laugh thinking… it is just a helmet like the other one was, but he thinks this one is cool and the other isn’t. She might even laugh about it on the internet because wives often have to cajole their husbands into taking the most basic care of themselves. Honestly, you wouldn’t believe it. I’m serious, my husband had an obvious sinus infection. He wouldn’t go to the doctor until it had spread throughout his ears and he had excruciating pain on an airplane. Sheesh! If it weren’t for me dragging his sorry butt to the doctor, his head probably would have rotted off!!!

Sheesh!!!

 

[LilyM]

ahh but see there is some selfishness in what she did, she is tired of the “raunchy gas”
I just cannot understand how you could possibly have total trust in someone whom does something to you that you already made clear you didnt want to happen…

And yes I do have some very warranted trust issues going on.
I would never again let a DR knock me out for a surgery even if it was life or death, There is actually only one person in this whole world I trust, and no its is not a parent.

you dont deceive for any reason someone you love
I am terrible at surprise parties obviously…

OK - so there’s only the one person in the world you trust and sounds like you’ve been badly hurt by a doctor to boot. Unsurprising that you’d have trust issues, and who knows, in your case they may be warranted indeed.

You must surely know, though, that yours is a far from normal case if your mistrust is so severe that you don’t like surprise parties. And you can’t expect everyone else to share your attitude.

 

[rayne89]

I just cannot understand how you could possibly have total trust in someone whom does something to you that you already made clear you didnt want to happen…

It is possible that sometimes the people who love us have better judgement than our own. Sometimes we have irrational fears, or are too embarressed or carry some kind of bagagge that prevents us for doing what we should do. A marriage is two people becoming one flesh -it’s not a me, myself and I relationship. My husband is my bestfriend. He has slept in hospital chairs next to bedside more times than I can count. He has taken care of me when I was too sick to take of myself. I trust him with my life.

I’m so sorry you’ve had such terrible experiences. I pray that God will give you healing and bring you peace.

 

[johntkd]

OK - so there’s only the one person in the world you trust and sounds like you’ve been badly hurt by a doctor to boot. Unsurprising that you’d have trust issues, and who knows, in your case they may be warranted indeed.

You must surely know, though, that yours is a far from normal case if your mistrust is so severe that you don’t like surprise parties. And you can’t expect everyone else to share your attitude.

No i like surprise parties but I cant lie to someone to keep them a surprise if i am asked…

 

[johntkd]

It is possible that sometimes the people who love us have better judgement than our own. Sometimes we have irrational fears, or are too embarressed or carry some kind of bagagge that prevents us for doing what we should do. A marriage is two people becoming one flesh -it’s not a me, myself and I relationship. My husband is my bestfriend. He has slept in hospital chairs next to bedside more times than I can count. He has taken care of me when I was too sick to take of myself. I trust him with my life.

what ytou described is exactly as it should always be. dont you think that would be hard to accomplish, if your spouse was doing things such as this behind your back, or taking your choice away from you?

I’m so sorry you’ve had such terrible experiences. I pray that God will give you healing and bring you peace.

That prolly wont ever happen.maybe after I leave this world who knows…

 

[rayne89]

what ytou described is exactly as it should always be. dont you think that would be hard to accomplish, if your spouse was doing things such as this behind your back, or taking your choice away from you?

That prolly wont ever happen.maybe after I leave this world who knows…

John if I’m being irrational or ding-dong I would hope my hubby would do what’s best for me even if I was against it because he loves me. If I refused to take my heart meds, I would hope my hubby would put them in a smoothie or hid them in my ham sandwich or whatever to save me from my own stupidity. I’m sure he would make me take them one way or another.

Now if my hubby was hiding birthcontrol pills in my sandwich that would be different because it goes against my religious belief even though the doctors tell me I will die if I get pregnant again he would never violate my religious beliefs.

I realize someone with major trust issues will have a hard time understanding the difference. I feel sad for you John . And remember with God all things are possible -so never say never. God Bless. I’ll be praying for you.

 

[CSJ]

I do it all the time in my 2 year old’s smoothies. I add frozen fruit, vitamin C, flax oil, and veggies…he loves it. It’s nutricious and tasty. It also helps prevent constipation and other digestive illnesses.

It would be a different story if it was something that was “unhealthy” or detrimental, but I think fiber supplements and/or other beneficial ingredients are acceptable. I wouldn’t call it sneaky as much as I would deem it “creative.”

CSJ

 

[johntkd]

I do it all the time in my 2 year old’s smoothies. I add frozen fruit, vitamin C, flax oil, and veggies…he loves it. It’s nutricious and tasty. It also helps prevent constipation and other digestive illnesses.

It would be a different story if it was something that was “unhealthy” or detrimental, but I think fiber supplements and/or other beneficial ingredients are acceptable. I wouldn’t call it sneaky as much as I would deem it “creative.”

CSJ

well this thread sure has changed my mind about some things.
I definatly would have to check and see how a gal feels,
because to me this is totally unacceptable behavior, I would rather have a spouse cheat on me than “spike” something i am going to eat that they know I do not want, and yes My first wife cheated so i know that feeling.and to me this would be 100 times worse… oh well I wont post anymore in this thread…I can see you all are into deception, and trickery as long as you can label it healthy,

to me there is no difference when it comes to spiking a food between fiber, birth control pills cyanide,Narcotics, cottage cheese as one responder put it etc if its unwanted its as bad as anything else dont matter what the effects are. to me its a betrayal of trust.

good luck you all

 

[LilyM]

well this thread sure has changed my mind about some things.
I definatly would have to check and see how a gal feels,
because to me this is totally unacceptable behavior, I would rather have a spouse cheat on me than “spike” something i am going to eat that they know I do not want, and yes My first wife cheated so i know that feeling.and to me this would be 100 times worse… oh well I wont post anymore in this thread…I can see you all are into deception, and trickery as long as you can label it healthy,

to me there is no difference when it comes to spiking a food between fiber, birth control pills cyanide,Narcotics, cottage cheese as one responder put it etc if its unwanted its as bad as anything else dont matter what the effects are. to me its a betrayal of trust.

good luck you all

John, can you honestly not tell the difference between someone putting something HARMFUL, like cyanide, in your food with the intent of HURTING you and someone putting something HELPFUL - or at the very worst MORALLY NEUTRAL - that YOU agree you should be taking but just don’t wanna, not because it’s immoral or anything, just because you don’t like it - in your food with the intent of KEEPING YOU ALIVE?

Things like birth control and poisons are morally wrong for us to use, in most every circumstance, so are operations like sterilisation and abortions. Fiber and vitamins aren’t. And guess what, if you’ve ever eaten food you’ve not cooked yourself from scratch it’s certainly had far worse things than fibre added to it - and not all of 'em are labelled either!