Im sorry, I have yet another question about Mary, but it is from a catholic friend

[ALLFORHIM]

Again, she must not have been actually meditating on the mysteries of Christ and saying it by rote. Either that or it is Satan trying to lure her away by tricking her, from the Catholic Church and the Real Presence of Christ, possibly damning her soul forever.

And if she doesn’t feel comfortable with the Hail Mary Prayer, I have a hard time seeing as how she is drawing closer to Christ through Scripture since the Hail Mary is almost entirely scripture, unless again, she has been saying the Rosary improperly and not meditating on the life of Christ as presented in each mystery.

Respectfully and with love,
Maria

Hi,
Her response:
Just say that it’s hard to meditate on Jesus when all you say over and over again is “Hail Mary”. Another thing is I think the Rosary is too monotonous and doesn’t feel personal. Feels more like something I have to force myself to do and then it doesn’t have any special meaning from my heart.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
Her response:
Just say that it’s hard to meditate on Jesus when all you say over and over again is “Hail Mary”.

She’s definitely doing it wrong. Even if all one does is the rote prayers, without doing any of the meditations, there is still a great deal more to the Rosary than just saying the Hail Mary. And there is more to the Hail Mary than just saying “Hail Mary.”

Another thing is I think the Rosary is too monotonous and doesn’t feel personal. Feels more like something I have to force myself to do and then it doesn’t have any special meaning from my heart.

Try this: Do the meditations all by themselves, without saying the rote prayers. (Maybe you could read them aloud to yourself from the Bible.)

But also make sure you know all of the prayers. It’s not only the Hail Mary. Get a good guide to the Rosary, and make sure you do all the starting prayers and all the ending prayers, and all the prayers that come between the mysteries (meditations) as well.

 

[MariaG]

From her:

I have no response to that except this:

Catholics read the Bible in light of the Magisterium and I read the Bible in light of the HS. Obviously those interpretations would differ slightly. Plus, if you want to see things one way, there’s no way to even begin to see things from another perspective, whether it’s right or wrong.

Respectfully, this Catholic Christian did not read the Bible in light of the Magisterium as I am a revert/convert from the Evangelical arena. I came TO the Catholic Church with the leading of the Holy Spirit and scripture.

The only difference between Catholic Christians and non are that we believe that the promises in scripture about leading us to all truth apply to a whole church as well as individually. But we acknowledge also that scripture tells us that some scripture can be hard to understand and we need to look to the Church whom the Holy Spirit is leading and guiding as a whole. And to guard against those who will come along teaching false doctrine. Historically, it is easy to see who has come along.

Saying a Catholic Christian is reading it in light of the Magesterium but you are reading it in light of the Holy Spirit shows ignorance of the fact that the Magesterium is being led by the Holy Spirit.

I find it infinitely ironic, but oh so sweet, that this Catholic Christian was led to the Catholic Church through scripture alone and the leading of the Holy Spirit

When God first grabbed ahold of my heart I was given the gift of absolute faith in Him and in His word. As a Catholic Christian, I as given the gift of faith in His Church also, so I am no longer swayed by doctrines that have come along, good speakers, a new bible translation with unbiblical footnotes, or…I could go on and on.

God bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

Hi,
Her response:
Just say that it’s hard to meditate on Jesus when all you say over and over again is “Hail Mary”. Another thing is I think the Rosary is too monotonous and doesn’t feel personal. Feels more like something I have to force myself to do and then it doesn’t have any special meaning from my heart.

So I was right. She was not saying the Rosary correctly. And if it makes her feel that way, she should not say it because the Rosary said correctly is a deeply personal prayer and meditatition about Christ and with Christ. Prayer to Christ should never be forced.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I’m sorry but this person does not sound like a Catholic. Where did I say anything about the Magesterium? The Rosary doesn’t come from the Magesterium. If this person were Catholic, she would know that.

If she really is Catholic, and she really didn’t know that, she needs to take an adult Catechism class, perhaps with her parish’s RCIA program, and, as recommended above, she really needs to talk to her priest.

Her response to you

Didn’t say the rosary came from the Magisterium. It came from a Pope a LONG time ago. I don’t know church history that well so pardon me. I’m just an average Catholic who’s confused about how much are we supposed to accept about Mary to still be considered Catholic. For instance, if I never pray the rosary again, am I any less of a Catholic than one who does?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I

find it infinitely ironic, but oh so sweet, that this Catholic Christian was led to the Catholic Church through scripture alone and the leading of the Holy Spirit

Well, actually she was born and raised a catholic and has never known any different but is now questioning certain beliefs.

 

[MariaG]

Try this: Do the meditations all by themselves, without saying the rote prayers. (Maybe you could read them aloud to yourself from the Bible.)

I agree. Again, all scripture is profitable therefore it would be a good thing to do meditative contemplative prayer on the mysteries of the Rosary. The mysteries are scripture.

One good tool is to imagine yourself in the scene, as Chris, as Mary, as Joseph, as a shepherd and think about what you would have felt if it were happening to you.

For example: The Agony in the Garden

Think about how you would have felt if you were Peter and fell asleep when your Lord asked you to pray? (Luke 22:36 - 50)

How would you have felt if you were Jesus and you were in such agony about what was to come your sweat became drops of blood?

How would you have felt when the soldiers came and you were betrayed by a Kiss? (This one never fails to bring tears to my eyes. This one truly hurts even as I type it. And I pray that I will have the courage to persevere to the end and never betray my Lord, ever.)

Knowing that Our Lord is not only fully divine but fully human and could feel as deeply as we do?

Meditate on these things and as you do, allow the Holy Spirit to bring things up in your mind. Sometimes it will be your own sins you are convicted of. Sometimes it will be others needs you will pray for. Sometimes it will just be people whom you didn’t even know needed prayer but the Holy Spirit will led you to pray for them not even knowing what their problems are.

It will be some of the most intimate time you spend with God. Learning scripture and reading it is important. Actually praying and meditating on it is even more so.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

I Well, actually she was born and raised a catholic and has never known any different but is now questioning certain beliefs.

I understand that. But the implication she had was that Catholics are not listening to the Holy Spirit but the Magisterium and and she is listening to the Holy Spirit.

And in my case, I can emphatically state that she is 100% wrong.

As well as the fact that we believe the Magesterium is being led by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[ALLFORHIM]

She’s definitely doing it wrong. Even if all one does is the rote prayers, without doing any of the meditations, there is still a great deal more to the Rosary than just saying the Hail Mary. And there is more to the Hail Mary than just saying “Hail Mary.”

Try this: Do the meditations all by themselves, without saying the rote prayers. (Maybe you could read them aloud to yourself from the Bible.)

But also make sure you know all of the prayers. It’s not only the Hail Mary. Get a good guide to the Rosary, and make sure you do all the starting prayers and all the ending prayers, and all the prayers that come between the mysteries (meditations) as well.

Her response:
To that I say there’s still a problem of being comfortable with it. Thanks for the advice, though.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Just so you guys know I loose contact with her over the weekend. So in a few minutes there will be no more contact until Monday.

 

[Gamera]

… By growing closer to Christ, I see no need to pray to anyone but Him.

“Need” is the pivotal word here. No, you don’t “need” to pray to Mary, just like you don’t “need” to ask other people here on earth to pray for you. But why should we do just the bare minimum? Shouldn’t we WANT to participate in the life of the body of Christ as much as we possibly can? Why settle for doing only what we “need”? That’s like eating only the bare minimum amount of food you “need” to survive, and turning away any more because you don’t absolutely “need” it to stay alive.

 

[jmcrae]

Her response to you

Didn’t say the rosary came from the Magisterium. It came from a Pope a LONG time ago.

Actually, it came from St. Dominic - you learned all about him in elementary school; remember?

I don’t know church history that well so pardon me. I’m just an average Catholic who’s confused about how much are we supposed to accept about Mary to still be considered Catholic.

You’re talking like a Protestant. Who is putting this stuff into your head? You’re not getting it from the Bible; the Bible affirms our beliefs about Mary. By the way, “average” Catholics know where the Rosary comes from; they learn about it in elementary school.

For instance, if I never pray the rosary again, am I any less of a Catholic than one who does?

The Rosary is not required for salvation. It is “icing” on the “cake” of our faith life here on earth.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Hi,

One of my catholic friends who knows I talk here wanted me to ask you guys a question.
Does the CC frown upon people who do not believe in Marion doctrines or honor her on feasts that go along with her or praying the rosary?

Thanks:thumbsup:

I will be relaying the responses to her. She does not have access to the forums.

A Catholic is required to believe the Marian Doctrines 1 Mary is the Mother of God 2 Mary’s Perpetual Virginity 3 Mary’s Immaculate Conception 4 Mary’s Assumption, so yes, the Church would “frown upon” people who choose to reject these doctrines.

As for honoring her feasts, a Catholic is required to attend Mass on Holy Days of Obligations, which in the US, would include 3 Marian feasts. So yes, the Church would “frown upon” people who do not attend Mass on those days.

As for the Rosary, no Catholic is required to say the Rosary. A Catholic would be strongly encouraged to do so, but there is no requirement. So a person could be a very good Catholic without ever praying the Rosary.

 

[Janet_S]

Just so you guys know I loose contact with her over the weekend. So in a few minutes there will be no more contact until Monday.

Allforhim,

We Catholics are bombarded by criticism from non-Catholics about the role of Mary in the Church. If we are not knowledgable about the Marian doctrines and why they were defined (as a defense of the divinity of Christ), we are easily cowed into believing that the CC teaches error.

Can you give your friend this article by Mark Shea. This is a good explanation of the Marian doctrines. The Marian doctrines were defined to express a truth about Christ–that He is God. They were not defined to glorify Mary.

If you truly believe Christ is God, then Mary’s role as the “God bearer” is something we contemplate with awe.

crisismagazine.com/december2004/feature1.htm
The Mother of the Son: The Case for Marian Devotion
By Mark P. Shea

 

[guanophore]

Her response to you

Didn’t say the rosary came from the Magisterium. It came from a Pope a LONG time ago. I don’t know church history that well so pardon me. I’m just an average Catholic who’s confused about how much are we supposed to accept about Mary to still be considered Catholic. For instance, if I never pray the rosary again, am I any less of a Catholic than one who does?

Sometime you might want to study the history of the rosary, so you can find that it was revealed to us by God. However, I agree with the previous poster, if you have this much resistance to any particular devotion, it is contraindicated to practice it. You need a different type of devotional prayer that will improve your conscious relationship with God. I have had the same experience with the Rosary, although it is getting better. I can’t seem to meditate on the mysteries while saying the words. It is much easier for me to pray in tongues. I think people are different, and that there are as many effective devotional practices as there are personality types.

The concern I would have is that you seem to be drifting further and further into a Protestant way of mind, if indeed your ever had a proper Catholic formation. Once you start down the path of denying that the pope and the magesterium are led by the HS, then yes, you will be less Catholic, and eventually, completely turn your back on all the sacraments that Christ instituted.

 

[FCEGM]

Here is another statement:

Tell them that we can know Christ without Mary because Christ is talked about in the scriptures and by the prophets, disciples and apostles. I don’t deny Mary and what she did by saying “yes” to God. She fulfilled the prophesy that “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”. I just don’t feel right praying to her when I could just be praying to God. I’m not comfortable with the rosary or feast days honoring her.

Regarding Feast Days, please inform your friend that when the Blessed Mother or another Saint is honored during Mass it is a thanksgiving to God for the Christ-life that shined through that person (most particularly in His chosen Mother!) and is essentially a praise of God for His work in and through His creature. It is also a time for asking God that His grace and mercy which abounded in the life of the Saint be shed on us, that we may live as faithfully in Christ as our brother or sister in Heaven did. For example, here is a prayer from Mass on the Feast of St. Joseph, Our Lord’s foster-father:

“Father, with unselfish love Saint Joseph cared for your son, born of the Virgin Mary. May we also serve you at your altar with pure hearts. We ask this in the name of Jesus the Lord.” (Prayer Over the Gifts)
The Scripture readings for the Mass on that day are:
2nd Samuel 7:4-5a, 12-14a, 16.
Psalm 89
Romans 4:13, 16-18, 22
Gospel of Matthew 1:16, 18-21, 24a

If we can praise God for the gifts He has given to us through the beautiful works of art and music He has inspired in others, why can’t we do the same - especially in our time of worship - for His work of grace in the lives of the Virgin Mary and the Saints?

 

[Janet_S]

Her response to you

Didn’t say the rosary came from the Magisterium. It came from a Pope a LONG time ago. I don’t know church history that well so pardon me. I’m just an average Catholic who’s confused about how much are we supposed to accept about Mary to still be considered Catholic. For instance, if I never pray the rosary again, am I any less of a Catholic than one who does?

Here’s a website, the Rosary Army:
rosaryarmy.com/documents_rosaryhistory.aspx

Greg and Jennifer are a Catholic couple who started the Rosary Army. I saw them interviewed on EWTN. At one time they were skeptical about the Rosary as a devotion.