"I'm spiritual, but not religious."

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notself said:
Perhaps when people say they are spiritual they mean that they are interested the ultimate nature of humankind but do not believe there is one path to follow.

Perhaps when people say they are not religious they mean that they do not see the need for rites, rituals or authority in order to lead a moral life.

This appears to upset those who feel that rites, ritual, and authority are absolutely necessary in following a spiritual path.
I don’t understand why the spiritual/non religious should upset those that are religious. I would think the religious would be too busy “dusting” their own souls to throw mud at the practices of others.

I can understand that the religious wish to share their beliefs and spread their faith, but why be upset or sarcastic if others are not interested? Can someone please explain?
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I work in addiction recovery and I hear this a lot. For many that suffered with or grew up with addiction, religion as they perceived it was unreliable, absent or abusive. Recovery often involves accepting a higher power - that can do for them what they cannot do for themselves. The spiritual aspect of recovery works with any religion or none. Be gentle with people who say this - you may NOT know their whole story, and you just might be the person God put in their path.
 
Originally Posted by notself
Perhaps when people say they are spiritual they mean that they are interested the ultimate nature of humankind but do not believe there is one path to follow.
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Perhaps when people say they are not religious they mean that they do not see the need for rites, rituals or authority in order to lead a moral life.
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This appears to upset those who feel that rites, ritual, and authority are absolutely necessary in following a spiritual path.
I don’t understand why the spiritual/non religious should upset those that are religious. I would think the religious would be too busy “dusting” their own souls to throw mud at the practices of others.
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I can understand that the religious wish to share their beliefs and spread their faith, but why be upset or sarcastic if others are not interested? Can someone please explain?
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Well, I’m glad you used ‘appears to upset those who feel that rites, ritual and authority are absolutely necessary in following a spiritual path’.

Why? Because while it is true that some of the answers given may not ‘appear’ to be the most charitable, or politically correct, or inclusive, the fact is that the Catholic Church (which is always correct and true, even when we individual Catholics can make mistakes) is not ‘upset’ by those who are opposed to ‘rites, ritual and authority’ to use your example. Rather, the Catholic Church is involved in the Divine mandate given to us by Christ: to preach the gospel --literally the good news–of salvation; to follow the 2 great commandments of loving God and neighbor, and to seek to know, love, and serve God in this world and the next. If the Church is ‘upset’ by those who embrace false teachings, it is upset on behalf of those who are in grave danger of losing their immortal souls. . . It is deeply concerned with each of these precious souls.

If the Catholic Church is correct in its teaching (and we believe that it is), then what the Catholic Church calls for in its teaching is also correct. That what it calls for involves the use of a divinely designated authority may ‘stick in the craw’ of many–some of them Catholics even. That what it calls for involves rites and ritual (which are not so ‘limited’ as the Latin rite itself has many ‘variants’) may also ‘stick in the craw’ of many–some of them Catholics even. Indeed, what it calls for involves even more than this–you have barely scratched the surface of authentic Catholic Christian religious teaching. This involves a radical element of love of God and neighbor above all, a love that goes beyond the sappiness of the Segal "love means never having to say you’re sorry’ or the current PC of "love means never saying anything that anybody else would consider ‘hurtful’, ‘judgmental’, ‘intolerant’ of ‘different lifestyles’ or presuming to ‘bind others’ to an absolute that they ‘may not embrace’. This Catholic Christian love is rather of the kind of Divine Love that died on a cross for sinners, not to then permit them to go hogwild because, “Jesus paid for my sins and I’m home free” but instead to call us to die that same death ourselves, daily, to help our brothers and sisters not just to ‘enjoy tolerance on earth’ but to **save their eternal souls ** by bringing them to the way, the truth, and the life who created them and wants them to be with Him forever.
 
Lepanto said:
To be religious involves following a religion. Jesus was a Jewish rabbi.
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i know that he is a jew. but it looks like he wasnt following jewish law. he found creative means of disregarding the few laws that he had an opportunity to follow.
 
notself said:
You may wish to widen your circle of friends.

I know of many spiritual but non religious people who give aid to others who are sick, or needy…

…I know people who attend Church every Sunday who pay only lip service to their religion. They lie and cheat others at the drop of a hat. Adultery and divorce is common place among these people…
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I think the response that came immediately after this thread started were from Catholics telling their honest expereince with “spiritual but not religious” types. It interesting that we all have similar experiences.

I agree with Jmcrae. Its a good point that charity work is done quite largely by the religious types. And yes, its important to be a good person. All the “spiritual but not religious” people I know are good persons. But we need people who give parts of their lives away to the care of others, or the world would be an awful place, and you wouldn’t want to live in it. Someone has to care fo the sick and the dying and the handicapped and the mentally disturbed. Its the religious who give part or thier entire lives to care for others.

No one of the good people I know who are “spiritual but not religious” give aid to the sick and needy who are not their immediate relatives. Not one. The only people I know who do this are religious and are moving outside of their own world to give because they want to please a God who expects something of them. They are religious.

While liars cheaters and adulterers certainly are present in regular church attenders, its far fromthe norm. Compared to the rest of the world. its a true haven from this. A port in the storm. You would see this if you, as an adult, became a member of a Christian religion, and became a true part of its community for a number of years. (I say Christian because that is my experience.)
notself said:
Speaking in generalities as you have only makes it clearer to me that you are upset by people who think differently than you…
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I think the topic of this thread is generalities. The question is what are those people thinking? We are guessing what “all those people are thinking”, from our experience of listening and truly knowing the life and actions of people in our lives who profess this over a long period of time.
notself said:
I wish you peace and better acquaintances.
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I myself, as I’m sure jmcrae does, have *wonderful *friends and aquaintences who are “spiritual but not religious”. I don’t need better ones!
 
AgnosTheist said:
i dont know if jesus would agree with you on that. 🤷

anyway i think jesus too was spiritual, not religious.
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Most of his miracles took place in synagogues and at the Temple - what do you think he was doing there; just stopping in to use the bathroom? 🤷
 
jmcrae said:
Most of his miracles took place in synagogues and at the Temple - what do you think he was doing there; just stopping in to use the bathroom? 🤷
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It looks as if he went there to argue with the priests, since that’s where they were. The miracles he did pretty much showed the priests the error of their ways. They felt they had the only true teachings on scripture and they had given up the spirit of the law in favor of the letter of the law (this sounds familiar). Jesus told them they were wrong, they didn’t want to hear it, they killed him. He attacked the “orgainized, we’re right listen to us” religion and they killed him to shut him up. Yeah, I’d say Jesus was spiritual and not religious.
 
Swan said:
It looks as if he went there to argue with the priests, since that’s where they were. The miracles he did pretty much showed the priests the error of their ways. They felt they had the only true teachings on scripture and they had given up the spirit of the law in favor of the letter of the law (this sounds familiar). Jesus told them they were wrong, they didn’t want to hear it, they killed him. He attacked the “orgainized, we’re right listen to us” religion and they killed him to shut him up. Yeah, I’d say Jesus was spiritual and not religious.
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So, he couldn’t have been there to worship God, or anything. :rolleyes:
 
jmcrae said:
Scripture records that He often worshipped the Father. 🙂
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I know he often spoke of the Father but did he perform Jewish worship rituals? I would be interested in some references from the NT.

Thank you
 
jmcrae said:
So, he couldn’t have been there to worship God, or anything. :rolleyes:
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I didn’t say that and you ignored everything I did say. But, honestly, you don’t have to respond. I don’t want to get argumentative, I was just putting my thoughts out there for consideration. :o
 
notself said:
I know he often spoke of the Father but did he perform Jewish worship rituals? I would be interested in some references from the NT.

Thank you
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The Scriptures tell us that he kept the Law perfectly in every way. He celebrated the Passover with the Apostles. He read from the scroll of Isaiah at the synagogue in Nazareth.
 
jmcrae said:
The Scriptures tell us that he kept the Law perfectly in every way. He celebrated the Passover with the Apostles. He read from the scroll of Isaiah at the synagogue in Nazareth.
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Could you give me the citation for the statement that Jesus kept the Law perfectly in every way and for the section where he read from the scroll of Isaiah, It would be helpful.

Reading from scrolls is often part of normal temple life. The temple was a library as well as a place of worship. Your original statement was that Jesus went to temple to worship, i.e. perform the rights and rituals of worship on the Sabbath.

The passover meal is not considered a sabbath ritual.

Perhaps this whole conversation is off topic, so you really don’t need to respond. 🤷
 
Luke, Chapter 4, 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up: and he went into the synagogue, according to his custom, on the sabbath day; and he rose up to read. 17 And the book of Isaias the prophet was delivered unto him. And as he unfolded the book, he found the place where it was written: 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. Wherefore he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, he hath sent me to heal the contrite of heart, 19 To preach deliverance to the captives, and sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of reward. 20 And when he had folded the book, he restored it to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him.

21 And he began to say to them: This day is fulfilled this scripture in your ears.

And ‘Jewish ritual’ is more than the sabbath day; the Passover celebration is one of the most sacred holy feasts in Judaism. For a Jewish adult male not to celebrate the Passover would be unthinkable as in Exodus 12:14 we are told that “. . .you shall observe it as a perpetual ordinance. . .”
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Luke, Chapter 4, 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up: and he went into the synagogue, according to his custom, on the sabbath day; and he rose up to read.
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that was very early in his career. long before he advised people to disregard the law of stoning an adulterer.
 
AgnosTheist said:
that was very early in his career. long before he advised people to disregard the law of stoning an adulterer.
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I don’t actually know off hand in which order the two events occurred, or how far apart in time they were, but it doesn’t seem very likely to me that Jesus would have said, “Sure, go ahead and stone her” at the beginning of His ministry, or at any other time.

Jesus began his ministry by calling people to repentance from their sins, after all.
 
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