I'm starting to come around (to traditionalism)

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damooster

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I’m not here to be a cheerleader for the Tradionalist community (I normally like to butt heads a little with you guys :D), but some things happened this evening at Mass that really has me thinking about “crossing over.”

Here are the incident and observation I had:
  1. I attended Mass at a different parish this evening because our Knights of Columbus council is attached to this parish and our officer installation and dinner was being held immediately afterwards. We were asked to attend Mass as a group and asked to sit up front. When it was time to receive Holy Communion, I was the first person in line.
Now, I’m a new convert and I learned to receive Holy Communion in the hand. I started receiving Holy Communion on the tongue about three weeks ago, and have only received in the hand once since then (from a Eucharistic Minister). Since I’m still new at receiving on the tongue, and afraid that I’ll drop the Holy Communion, I am very conscious about how I receive. I take things in steps, so when the usher motioned for me to stand up, I exited the pew, bowed, interlocked my fingers and place my hands down by my waist. The Father held up the Holy Communion for a split second (didn’t even look at me or give me a chance to respond with “Amen”) and then started moving the Holy Communion down towards my hands. I kept my fingers interlocked and by my waist and when the Father finally realized that I wanted to receive on the tongue, he kind of jerked his body and quickly brought the Holy Communion to my mouth. It was so fast and sudden though that I thought he was going to drop the Holy Communion. I mean, I was ready to catch it mid air. Where was the altar boy, you ask? He was just standing there by the Father with the paten by his side staring straight ahead. He wasn’t even placing the paten under hands; he just stood there for a while and then eventually started using the paten (he was an adult by the way).

In the Father’s defense, I noticed that about 98% of the congregation received CITH. I know, I should have been praying, but I was upset with myself thinking that I did something wrong that could have lead to the Holy Communion falling to the floor. I was watching people out of the corner of my eye (I know, that’s bad) to see if the people that received on the tongue did anything differently. The problem was, I only saw two other people receive on the tongue, so not a lot to compare it too.

On top of that, this one guy approaches the Eucharistic Minister with a kid in one arm and extends his arm expecting the Eucharistic Minister to place the Holy Communion in his hand. The EM actually shook his head no and the guy finally stuck his tongue out.
  1. I’m normally of the mindset that people should be able to wear what they want to Mass as long as it’s modest and clean; I don’t normally expect people to wear suits to Mass simply because we all have different tastes in clothes and I don’t want to look like everyone else. Besides, suits (good suits) can be quite expensive and I don’t own one.
I normally dress business casual (a collared shirt like a golf shirt, slacks, and dress shoes). This is actually dressed up for me; I normally wear jeans to work and shopping and stuff. Normally this is how most of the men at my parish dress too, so I don’t feel bad about not looking as good as the people in suits. This is beginning to change, however, but I’ll explain that in a minute.

Anyways, this evening I was wearing a shirt and tie with dress slacks and shoes (I had to go out and buy the dress shirt and tie). My fellow Knights were dressed similarly; some had jackets on but most of them left their jackets in the car because of the heat. The rest of the congregation, however, was totally dressed down, even for my standards: the first thing I noticed when I was praying after having just received was the sound of flip flops smacking feet as people went up to receive. At first I thought it was just a couple people, but the feet smacking wouldn’t stop. After Mass, I noticed that most of the people wore sandals or flip flops. Many of the women looked like they were going to the beach because of their extremely short shorts and midriffs showing and a lot of guys didn’t look any better.

I don’t know if I’ll be attending Mass there soon. The problem is, my normally orthodox NO parish is beginning to slide too. More and more people are pushing the limits of the dress code (our parish does have a dress code) and people are becoming less reverent. This is normally the most reverent parish in the area, and now that it’s slipping, I can’t think of anywhere else to go except for the TLM at the parish a few miles away. The problem is, that parish only has the TLM once on Sundays, so for daily Mass I’m either stuck going to an NO Mass or not going at all. I try to concentrate on the Lord at Mass, but it’s becoming difficult. And if I want to go to the TLM I’m probably going to have to buy more dress shirts and ties since the traditionalists would probably mention it to me (at least that’s my impression anyways).

Anyways, sorry for the long post but I had to vent.
 
It is small consolation, but the dress code everywhere seems to slide a bit in the summertime, especially as regards to footwear, and particularly if it gets humid. There are also more tourists and visitors in attendence in summer. You visit Grandma, Grandma doesn’t know or is upset when reminded you’ve quit going to Mass, and guess what kids, we’re all going to Mass. Alternatively, people decide to “pack light” and “make do”, and the garment bag with the good clothes doesn’t make the cut. You see the same thing in restaurants, even on the West Coast. Summer is even more casual than winter.

In other words, I am hoping you’re noticing a seasonal lapse, and not a permanent one.

When teaching kids about recieving their First Holy Communion, I let them know that it is their right everywhere to receive on the tongue, if they choose, but that in some places this gives the priest or EMHC a bit of surprise, because of how many people choose the other way. I let them know that they just need to open their mouths wide enough and be patient, and not concern themselves with how long it takes the person dispensing the Eucharist to get to them. Their responsibility is to open their mouths, keep them open until the Eucharist is safely in their mouths, and not close until hands are clear. The rest is someone else’s duty.

As a EMHC, I would say perhaps that closing your eyes as you say “Amen” may wake up the person to the fact that you’re not receiving in the hand. Not everyone who receives on the tongue does this, of course, but many do, and almost nobody who receives in the hand ever does.
 
damooster said:
And if I want to go to the TLM I’m probably going to have to buy more dress shirts and ties since the traditionalists would probably mention it to me (at least that’s my impression anyways).
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I doubt that you would get dirty looks for not having a dress shirt. Sometimes I’ll wear a suit and tie to Mass, but if I don’t I wear Dockers with a blue & white striped long sleeve button down shirt with a sweater vest.

Heck, if you all have is (nice, i.e not wrinkled or stained) Jeans and a golf shirt, wear that!

Just as long as your not wearing sweats, shorts, or an old t-shirt you should be fine. Mass isn’t a fashion show, it’s, the Sacrifice as it was at Calvary. :signofcross:

I’m glad you are seeing the beauty in traditional Catholicism! Hopefully it will one day be the OF Deo volente.

Laus Deo
 
I’m as trad as they come. However, I find that the idea of a dress code kind of pointless.

Not to be blunt, but whats innapropriate for you may not be for the wearer. A lot of times you have to just think about intent.

Is that person wearing that because shes trying to get attention, or is it just hot today?

Is that kid wearing jeans because he has no respect? or because he doesnt really have dress pants in his wardrobe (which he probably stores on his bedroom floor.)

At the same time, if you know beforehand that your church is a collar and tie kind of place, then its just a matter of having good judgement. Theres nothing wrong with jeans and a t-shirt, but if you know beforehand your going to stand out, then maybe put in some extra effort just in the name of good taste.

That being said, I really think that ‘dress’ is not an issue of traditional vs. progressive catholicism, and merely cultural/social bickering.
 
Well, I can remember what Mass was like in semi-tropical New Orleans before Vatican II. My mother got the three of us up bright and early on Sunday morning to go to the 6am Mass. Why? Because all we had in church were those big oscillating fans on stands in the aisles and the ones mounted higher up on the columns. My mother dispensed with her big brimmed hat in favor of a chaplet. The men dispensed with wearing suits and ties because it was often 78 or 80 degrees inside church even at 6am. The 10:30 High Mass and the 12 Mass were unbearable because of the heat. We didn’t get a/c in church until the late 60s.

I attend the cathedral parish in Baton Rouge. We have the big Mississippi River cruise ships two blocks down at the river. Consequently, we get folks in shorts, etc. I normally wear a short-sleved dress shirt and slacks. DW wears a loose cotton dress. Many of the men have taken to wearing guayabera shirts as is common in tropical Central America.

I think you have to take climate into consideration. That having been said, I think flip-flops and tee shirts are a bit much if one is a parishoner. I’d rather see someone on vacation come to Mass rather than miss Mass because they didn’t bring the “right” clothes with them.
 
damooster said:
Anyways, sorry for the long post but I had to vent.
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It can be tough. The clothes thing - I think we all know what’s respectful and what’s not. Like so many things like this, it starts at home. My 12 year old son challenges us on dress.
As for communion, I’m an EM at our parish and it generally comes down - older folks tongue, everybody else hand. There’s no altar servers with patens any more standing with us. Sometimes I wonder if the Church would be better off, going with one way or another. I haven’t had any mishaps. But what’s been interesting about being an EM is you see a lot of stuff. And I think about it at times. Then I think, we’ll at least they are there receiving Jesus - can that be bad?
It is so easy to be distracted by other things at Mass. I guess we can use it as an opportunity to practice concentration and increase our devotion to why we’re really there - block out the noise and sights and fight to keep our minds on Him.
 
r4j said:
As for communion, I’m an EM at our parish and it generally comes down - older folks tongue, everybody else hand.
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You certainly have more experience with this than me, but my observation around here is the opposite; younger people receive on the tongue and the older folk receive in the hand.
 
there is a lack of respect shown to the Mass in my parish. . I used to wear the same kind of casual things to Mass, but now that I actually appreciate the Sacrificial nature of the Mass, I will try to be as smart as possible. I can’t condemn others for dressing like that, as it is the norm, so they are not deliberately showing disrespect for It. However, the biggest problem is the noise after Mass, and the lack of reverence shown to our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. I saw today, a man running around with a woman in a wheelchair, making the noise of a formula one racing car…right infront of the Altar and then pass the Tabernacle.
 
brotherhrolf said:
Well, I can remember what Mass was like in semi-tropical New Orleans before Vatican II. My mother got the three of us up bright and early on Sunday morning to go to the 6am Mass. Why? Because all we had in church were those big oscillating fans on stands in the aisles and the ones mounted higher up on the columns. My mother dispensed with her big brimmed hat in favor of a chaplet. The men dispensed with wearing suits and ties because it was often 78 or 80 degrees inside church even at 6am. The 10:30 High Mass and the 12 Mass were unbearable because of the heat. We didn’t get a/c in church until the late 60s.

I attend the cathedral parish in Baton Rouge. We have the big Mississippi River cruise ships two blocks down at the river. Consequently, we get folks in shorts, etc. I normally wear a short-sleved dress shirt and slacks. DW wears a loose cotton dress. Many of the men have taken to wearing guayabera shirts as is common in tropical Central America.

I think you have to take climate into consideration. That having been said, I think flip-flops and tee shirts are a bit much if one is a parishoner. I’d rather see someone on vacation come to Mass rather than miss Mass because they didn’t bring the “right” clothes with them.
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Still, it is better still not to neglect to bring something appropriate. With the fabrics available now, fabrics that are cool and not prone to wrinkles, it only takes some foresight for most people who have the means to travel.

OTOH, things happen to clothes, and sometimes we are stuck wearing something that we’d rather not wear or are kept over longer than we thought or whatnot. Assuming we have something modest enough to go out in, the obligation to attend Mass remains. On that account, we have reason to mind our own business about what other people wear. You never know, and most of us are happily free of the authority that gives the duty to notice, except in our own households.
 
God looks at the heart at the time of prayer. It doesn’t matter what you are wearing, but for most people being dressed well, that in itself is a reminder to themselves of the reverence due to God. But even more, we must consider those around us. Clothing can be distracting, especially if flesh is showing. We wouldn’t want present scandals before others and we don’t want others to present opportunities of scandal to ourselves. i suppose the same could be said of a person well-dressed being scandalous when 98% of the congregation at Mass is dressed down. But there’s that reverence aspect that may rub off positively on others and also it’s reasonable to think that being too dressed up is well better than flesh showing.

A point about the Eucharist. This whole COTT and CITH variation can easily lead to scandal and distraction. As damooster mentioned in the OP you were distracted when you should have been praying and you knew it. It’s human nature to do such things. It’s best to eliminate the possibility of such distractions as much as possible. This is why i prefer TLM over NO Mass. The high point of Mass is when Communion is received. Everything works up to that point and afterward winds down from that point. It is ideal to have the least amount of distractions especially here. Kneeling helps to produce reverence. COTT is easier here since the priest is usually a few steps higher plus you are already kneeling. And there’s not as much horsing around with the ever moving line of the NOs as it is one-up-one-down at the NO. When kneeling on the steps and waiting for the priest to approach in the TLM, there is no other bodily movement necessary. Thus, your thoughts can be more devoted at this time to spiritual thoughts, of preparing to receive Jesus.

The NO Mass is certainly valid and holds the same infinite good potentially that the TLM does. But i find it harder to get there with the NO Masses.
 
I’m not a trad. But I sympathize with them and your dilemma. I attend the TLM (I don’t like to use the term extraordinary because it isnt. Its just as valid as Eastern Liturgy) on occasion. As long as you wear like you said a collared shirt and slacks with a reasonable pair of shoes. There should be no problem from my experience. Some trads can be difficult but most are like you and just want a respectful liturgy. I would say go with what you normally wear and see what happens. You’ll never know till you try.
 
To thiscatholickid,

I am also a traditionalist. I used to dress more like I was going to the park after church. Then I started looking around in church and remembering what people used to wear to church when I was a child. WOW, what a HUGE difference in the clothing! People walking around these days don’t seem to care what they look like and that attitude stays with them even when they go to church(in many cases). That really shocked me and made me come to my senses. I now dress up for church AND wear a hat! Yes, I dress up even when it’s 100 degrees outside. Over the years when shop for clothes, the first thing I think of is: Can I wear this in church? I dress very modestly for church. It can be done with good planning. Also, I have been noticing more people starting to dress up these days, including men…they are wearing suits with ties!

eiram
 
Hi Damooster! I can sympathize with your dilemma. I think that seeing things like liturgical dancing got me thinking about what you just saw A well intentioned Jesuit priest once told me that as long as it was a valid Eucharist it didn’t really matter (paraphrasing). He was talking about changes that have occured in the liturgy over the past 50 years and said “none of that stuff really matters.”
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  But then I rememberd back in high school three years ago I endured liturgical dancing. The students laughed and fooled around during the mass. No one payed attention. That is when I realized...THAT IT REALLY DOES MATTER! Everything in the liturgy matters! The way a liturgy is celebrated: does it distract or lead us to God. As Dietrich von Hildebrand said "do we go soaring up to God or bring him down to our work-a-day world?"

    The fact of the matter is that liturgy is supposed to bring us soaring up to God! Personally I rarely go to the TLM (though I want to go more! But getting my family to go to mass is first on my list...). Yet whenever I go to the NO I try to open up my heart to Christ. I would advise you of this whenever you feel distracted. Try praying the Our Father and concentrating ojn the words.
Personally though I am glad you are warming up to the TLM. It is beautiful and I apologize if you have had any negative encounters with traditionalists. But the TLM is beautiful and I do prefer it to the NO because I believe it permits us to more easily concentrate on God.
 
Just on the clothes thing - I heard a priest say one time ‘Give God your best, not your leftovers.’ I use this often when about to do something for God - which is everything I do - and when it comes to Mass - I use this with my 12 year old who wants dress his way.
 
At a TLM I feel like I am at Mass, like I am truly worshipping God.
At a folk Mass, I feel simply like I’m taking a trip to Woodstock in '69.
Isn’t it time to leave that blasted decade behind? I would rather return to the 1160s than the 1960s.
 
Re: COTT in a CITH church.

If you motion with your hand, pointing to your mouth, the priest should get the idea.

I like the TLM because, wherever I attend it, there will be fewer distractions than at an N.O.; there’s less, physicially, going on and those attending tend to dress and behave moderately. You can attend in peace.
 
Hello,

Does anyone think that everyone in America should write to their Bishops and tell them that they don’t like the “modern mass” and they want the mass to be celebrated in the “traditional way”…AND have them give orders to put the altars (and everything else) where they used to be.

eiram
 
I think some of the Bishops are part of the problem, so I’m not sure how much good that will do. But it sure would be fun to be a fly on the wall of a chancery, with a sackload of letters coming in every day, asking for the Latin Mass 😉

**If you want a TLM, first ask your priest, politely, about it. He might know of a local one, or oblige himself. If he’s agin’ it, write to the Bishop, politely. Then wait.

Politeness and diplomacy are key here. I’ve seen some letters to Bishops that take a lecturing tone that is not diplomatic. The clergy are human too.

If no joy there, write to Rome.**

In the meantime, see what you can do to get to one or organise one yourself. Search on “Latin Mass Society” for your country.
 
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