I'm starting to understand (I think)

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damooster

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Let me apologize in advance because what I’m about to say will probably offend and hurt some of you. I do not mean to be offensive, but these are my feelings, and I think they are relevant.

When I visit this (Traditional Catholicism) forum, I usually expect to see a bunch of posts consisting of whining and bickering; I see a lot of shots being taken at the NO Mass and the people that support the NO Mass.

So, instead of just discounting you guys and gals as people who are just trying to hold on to something you grew up with, I decided that I wanted to better understand what you’re going through. I wanted to put myself in your shoes. Now, I did not attend a TLM (saving that for confirmation), but I did watch a full length one on another website.

And all I can say is WOW!!! Now I understand why you guys are so bitter. What I just witnessed was beautiful, and I can’t imagine what it would be like to witness in person. I love the chanting, and I love how the Mass seems to be “for God” and not “about the people” (I hope that makes sense). I like how clergy focus their attention on God is what I’m getting at.

I also imagine that there is little room for adjustment from the Order of Mass in a TLM, unlike NO Mass, where it seems like I can never keep up even though they’re supposed to be basically uniform. I bought a St. Joseph’s missal set and I still can’t follow it, not because I’m dumb (well maybe a little), but because there seems to be a lot of room for personal interpretation by the presider. I always beamed at the idea that I would be able to attend Mass anywhere in the world and be able to fully participate, but that has not always been the case in the few parishes I’ve visited.

Anyways, I’ll get off my soap box. Again, I’m sorry if I offended anyone. But now I see why you guys are clinging to the TLM, and I may just join you as well.
 
Congratulations on entering the Church this Easter!! A year ago I was in your shoes.

It took me awhile to “get” the traditionalist stance as well, although once the seeds are planted (mine were planted when I attended a Boy Scout Sunday Mass while in RCIA shudders), you will never go back. Traditionalism goes far beyond the Mass of Trent. It has to do with the old “Catholic sensibility,” the old customs, and the old calendar. I am so sick to death of Ordinary Time. Many things that we traditionalists love were never done away with after Vatican II, but simply hidden by the demolished Catholic subculture.

Many traditionalists do come off as bitter. For people like me, it is constantly having to battle both progressives and neo-conservatives. For way too long, traditional Catholics have had to deal with constant persecution from within the Church, as well as an indult that was rarely implemented, while charismatics and EMHCs were lauded by Bishops.

Bitterness, of course, should not be justified, but it should at least be understood.
 
damooster said:
Let me apologize in advance because what I’m about to say will probably offend and hurt some of you. I do not mean to be offensive, but these are my feelings, and I think they are relevant.

When I visit this (Traditional Catholicism) forum, I usually expect to see a bunch of posts consisting of whining and bickering; I see a lot of shots being taken at the NO Mass and the people that support the NO Mass.

So, instead of just discounting you guys and gals as people who are just trying to hold on to something you grew up with, I decided that I wanted to better understand what you’re going through. I wanted to put myself in your shoes. Now, I did not attend a TLM (saving that for confirmation), but I did watch a full length one on another website.

And all I can say is WOW!!! Now I understand why you guys are so bitter. What I just witnessed was beautiful, …
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Let us praise God for what your perceived in the old Mass (and I would attribute that, at least in part, to actual grace), but that was only the surface of what the Traditionalists fight for.

Just as the old Mass, when compared to the New, made you say WOW!, much more so would the “old” (unchanging) and unwatered down, faith of the Church.

What I am saying is: Just as the Mass has been deformed and watered down during the past 40 years, so too has the faith itself in the average Catholic Church; and it is both that Traditionalists fight for.

You saw the Traditional Mass and liked it. Now to hear the Traditionalf Faith, go here www.audiosancto.com
 
I really want to applaud the effort you have taken so far to understand where Traditionalists are coming from. That shows so much charity and good will on your part (and grace on His). Just think how much better the world would be if everyone, when they came up against something they didn’t understand, used some effort to “get it” rather than being bitter. Obviously, somethings would never be agreed to and some things would be sinful to delve into and so shouldn’t be - however the enmity between people might be lessened if others tried to listen when they could.👍
 
damooster said:
Let me apologize in advance because what I’m about to say will probably offend and hurt some of you. I do not mean to be offensive, but these are my feelings, and I think they are relevant.

When I visit this (Traditional Catholicism) forum, I usually expect to see a bunch of posts consisting of whining and bickering; I see a lot of shots being taken at the NO Mass and the people that support the NO Mass.

So, instead of just discounting you guys and gals as people who are just trying to hold on to something you grew up with, I decided that I wanted to better understand what you’re going through. I wanted to put myself in your shoes. Now, I did not attend a TLM (saving that for confirmation), but I did watch a full length one on another website.

And all I can say is WOW!!! Now I understand why you guys are so bitter. What I just witnessed was beautiful, and I can’t imagine what it would be like to witness in person. I love the chanting, and I love how the Mass seems to be “for God” and not “about the people” (I hope that makes sense). I like how clergy focus their attention on God is what I’m getting at.

I also imagine that there is little room for adjustment from the Order of Mass in a TLM, unlike NO Mass, where it seems like I can never keep up even though they’re supposed to be basically uniform. I bought a St. Joseph’s missal set and I still can’t follow it, not because I’m dumb (well maybe a little), but because there seems to be a lot of room for personal interpretation by the presider. I always beamed at the idea that I would be able to attend Mass anywhere in the world and be able to fully participate, but that has not always been the case in the few parishes I’ve visited.

Anyways, I’ll get off my soap box. Again, I’m sorry if I offended anyone. But now I see why you guys are clinging to the TLM, and I may just join you as well.
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This is excellent to hear! you had an open mind and weren’t too entrenched in your views. What’s really amazing is all of those who attend the TLM know the NO, but FAR too many of those who go to the NO don’t know the first thing about the traditional Mass.
 
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damooster:
What I just witnessed was beautiful, and I can’t imagine what it would be like to witness in person. I love the chanting, and I love how the Mass seems to be “for God” and not “about the people” (I hope that makes sense). I like how clergy focus their attention on God is what I’m getting at.
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Makes perfect sense 👍

If you don’t already know of this site, check it out…
sanctamissa.org/en/tutorial/
 
BennyBoy89 said:
Traditionalism goes far beyond the Mass of Trent. It has to do with the old “Catholic sensibility,” the old customs, and the old calendar. I am so sick to death of Ordinary Time. Many things that we traditionalists love were never done away with after Vatican II, but simply hidden by the demolished Catholic subculture.
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Could you elaborate please? I’m not sure what you are speaking of, and I’d really like to learn more.

And I bought a 1962 missal today. Maybe I’ll get a chance to attend a TLM before my confirmation. I’m just hesitant to do so because I don’t know what I’m supposed to do when everyone else goes up for Communion.

Thanks.
 
damooster said:
Could you elaborate please? I’m not sure what you are speaking of, and I’d really like to learn more.

And I bought a 1962 missal today. Maybe I’ll get a chance to attend a TLM before my confirmation. I’m just hesitant to do so because I don’t know what I’m supposed to do when everyone else goes up for Communion.

Thanks.
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May God richly bless you on your entry into the Church! As far as what to do when you can’t receive communion and everyone else is; Just sit back in your pew and let anyone who needs to pass by do so with ease then resume kneeling and make a spiritual Communion. In the New Mass it’s not uncommon for everyone to go up and those who are not receiving to cross their arms to receive a blessing from the Priest but this is a new innovation and not something that is ordinarily done in the old rite, to the best of my knowledge, except for in the case of young children whom go up with their parents. Don’t worry, people are not going to judge you as to why you aren’t going up to communion. I think that’s a common fear but an unfounded one.
 
brigid12 said:
I really want to applaud the effort you have taken so far to understand where Traditionalists are coming from. That shows so much charity and good will on your part (and grace on His). Just think how much better the world would be if everyone, when they came up against something they didn’t understand, used some effort to “get it” rather than being bitter. Obviously, somethings would never be agreed to and some things would be sinful to delve into and so shouldn’t be - however the enmity between people might be lessened if others tried to listen when they could.👍
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:amen:

I cannot wait to go to my first TLM - I would like to convert and am in the process of studying the faith but I lean heavily towards a lot of the traditionalist practices and I do not particularly want to go through an RCIA or to a parish that has all of the liturgical abuses I’ve read about on this forum. (Thankfully there are two FSSP chapels within an hour-long train ride from my place, which is fantastic!)
 
RUINATION_IPA said:
Don’t worry, people are not going to judge you as to why you aren’t going up to communion. I think that’s a common fear but an unfounded one.
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To be honest with you, traditionalists have a reputation for being rather blunt and straightforward. I’m nervous that I’m going to attend a TLM and get yelled at for something. This reputation may surely be unfounded, but I’ve heard stories of women yelling at other women for not dressing appropriately etc.

It’s not going to deter me by any means, but it is a concern!
 
damooster said:
To be honest with you, traditionalists have a reputation for being rather blunt and straightforward. I’m nervous that I’m going to attend a TLM and get yelled at for something. This reputation may surely be unfounded, but I’ve heard stories of women yelling at other women for not dressing appropriately etc.

It’s not going to deter me by any means, but it is a concern!
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I’m with Ruination. I’ve been to Masses offered by all of the major traditionalist communities and my experience would indicate that it is highly unlikely that you’ll have any difficulties.

I appreciated your original comments. Thanks for posting.
 
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