I'm terrified of purgatory

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AlNg said:
Interesting because the book Read Me or Rue it, was published with the
"APPROVAL OF HIS EMINENCE THE CARDINAL PATRIARCH OF LISBON

Cardinal’s Palace, Lisbon March 4, 1936

We approve and recommend with all our heart the beautiful little book Read
Me or Rue It by E. D. M. [These initials used by Fr. O’Sullivan stand for
Engant de Marie, that is, “Child of Mary” Ed.]

Although small, it is destined to do great good among Catholics, many of
whom are incredibly ignorant of the great doctrine of Purgatory. As a
consequence, they do little or nothing to avoid it themselves and little to
help the Poor Souls who are suffering there so intensely, waiting for the
Masses and prayers which should be offered for them.

It is our earnest desire that every Catholic should read this little book
and spread it about as widely as possible."
Also, if this is not what the Church teaches, then why is this book posted on the EWTN website?
https://www.ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/READRUE.TXT
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I can’t tell from your profile if you are Catholic or not. If you are you would know that no matter what books, articles or whatever you read the only thing that counts is what the Church officially teaches.
 
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AlNg said:
Also, if this is not what the Church teaches, then why is this book posted on the EWTN website?
https://www.ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/READRUE.TXT
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Because EWTN, while a generally reliable resource, is not the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.
Because no single bishop is the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.
And because no single mystic, and no single Scripture passage, and no ancient council document taken out of context…
None of these are the living Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

The living Magisterium is a thing…
 
It’s important to note here that there are a large number of books giving different views of Purgatory, in some cases presenting approved or unapproved private revelations about Purgatory, that all contain the imprimatur/ nihil obstat approval. I have read the old Fr. Paul O’Sullivan books and also read books published more recently by Direction for Our Times (“Anne, A Lay Apostle”) which contain an imprimatur and nihil obstat and describe a Purgatory that is not painful at all and say we shouldn’t be scared of it and present it as just a nice conversation or learning session with God, supposedly revealed in an unapproved private revelation to “Anne”. Obviously Fr. O’Sullivan and “Anne” have opposing views of Purgatory and neither one seems to be quite fully in line with the Catechism. Yet both Fr. O’Sullivan and “Anne” have approval for their books.

Of course the punishment in Purgatory would be “entirely different from the punishment of the damned”, as the Catechism says, because a large part of the punishment of the damned is their eternal separation from God, which causes great suffering according to the teaching of the Church. Those in Purgatory know they are saved and will eventually see God and their suffering is going to end at some point.
 
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The concept of purification by fire appears numerous times in Scripture:

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of burning.

Isaiah 6: 5-7 And I said:“Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!” Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the altar. And he touched my mouth, and said:"Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it. For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

I believe the last passage above is the clearest description of Purgatory in the New Testament. If there are no temporal consequences for our sins, then why would our works need to be tried by fire before entering heaven?

St Peter tells us to endure our trials “so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by fire, may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:7).
 
I’m reminded of a couple of quotes from C.S. Lewis, one of my favorite Christian authors. While not a Catholic (he was Anglican), he did believe in the concept of Purgatory, as the following passages from Letters to Malcolm (one of his last books):
“Though even in heaven some perpetual increase of beatitude, reached by a continually more ecstatic self-surrender, without the possibility of failure but without its own ardours and exertions- for delight also has it’s severities and steep ascents as lovers know -might be supposed. But I won’t press, or guess, that side for the moment. I believe in purgatory.”

"Our souls demand purgatory, don’t they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, “It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy?” Should we not reply, “With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I’d rather be cleaned first.” “It may hurt, you know.” “Even so, sir.” "

"I assume that the process of purification will normally involve suffering. Partly from tradition; partly because most real good that has been done me in this life has involved it.’
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thistle said:
no matter what books, articles or whatever you read the only thing that counts is what the Church officially teaches.
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So in other words what St. Thomas, the Prince of theologians says, and what St. Augustine, the greatest of the holy doctors says, and what St. Cyril of Alexandria says - does not count? Even though they are all in agreement?
 
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As St. Therese taught, if one is going to “demand Purgatory”, then they will likely get Purgatory.

But she also taught that God was upset by people who didn’t trust Him to spare them from Purgatory.

Maybe Lewis should have read her teachings.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
As St. Therese taught, if one is going to “demand Purgatory”, then they will likely get Purgatory.

But she also taught that God was upset by people who didn’t trust Him to spare them from Purgatory.

Maybe Lewis should have read her teachings.
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Saint Theresa emphasized that if we wholly trust in God, we have by him and through the Church the means to detach ourselves from sin and be made pure in this life. And that is a wonderful sentiment, and true. But it does require a whole commitment to and trust in God, and a break away from excessive attachment to worldly things and affairs.
 
I would think that is what we should all be striving for, not standing around saying, “Oh, I’m no good, I should therefore plan on going to Purgatory and in fact even demand that of God.”

We also shouldn’t be driven by the fear of hell or of Purgatory, but by the love of God.

I’m seeing painfully little of the love of God on this forum generally, and a whole lot of legalism and fear. I guess that’s not surprising as I went through it myself in the past, but the point of growing as a Catholic and a Christian is to move beyond that. To be honest I think some of the Protestants (not Lewis, obviously) are better at moving beyond it than Catholics are.
 
AlNg said:
So in other words what St. Thomas, the Prince of theologians says, and what St. Augustine, the greatest of the holy doctors says, and what St. Cyril of Alexandria says - does not count? Even though they are all in agreement?
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What counts is what the Church teaches. The CCC shows the official Church teaching and footnotes show what Church documents underpin the teaching.
 
I prefer the term “cleansing” to the term “punishing.” And, frankly, the idea of finally being cleansed of my sinfulness and never being a slave to it again is one of the most exciting things I can think of, unpleasant as it may be.
 
AlNg said:
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thistle:
no matter what books, articles or whatever you read the only thing that counts is what the Church officially teaches.
Click to expand...
So in other words what St. Thomas, the Prince of theologians says, and what St. Augustine, the greatest of the holy doctors says, and what St. Cyril of Alexandria says - does not count? Even though they are all in agreement?
Click to expand...
When their thought is part of the living Magisterium, it is part of the living Magisterium.
And for teaching purposes, that is what counts.

If it is not in concord with the living Magisterium, the value is what it is, in whatever context it is written in.
Requires some flexibility on the part of the reader to read these things in their context.
 
I’ve heard it compared to being stuck in traffic on the way to a family celebration.

Since I’ve been a mom, I’ve personally compared purgatory to labor and delivery.
 
goout said:
If it is not in concord with the living Magisterium
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How is what St. Thomas, the Prince of theologians, teaches, and what St. Augustine, the greatest of the holy doctors, teaches, and what St. Cyril of Alexandria teaches, when properly understood, not in concord with what the living Magisterium teaches on Purgatory? Does what the living Magisterium teach, when properly understood, contradict what these saints have taught? IMHO, what these saints have said on Purgatory does count.
 
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I did not say it is impossible to not go to heaven without purgatory I said innorder to skip it you must be a saint.
 
Pretty much yes. The teaching of the RCC always Trump opinions. Look back at history Pope’s disagreed on things with one another was far as personal opinions.
 
AlNg said:
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goout:
If it is not in concord with the living Magisterium
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How is what St. Thomas, the Prince of theologians, teaches, and what St. Augustine, the greatest of the holy doctors, teaches, and what St. Cyril of Alexandria teaches, when properly understood, not in concord with what the living Magisterium teaches on Purgatory? Does what the living Magisterium teach, when properly understood, contradict what these saints have taught? IMHO, what these saints have said on Purgatory does count.
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Who said any of that? Perhaps you are confusing me with another poster. Are you responding to this?
When their thought is part of the living Magisterium, it is part of the living Magisterium.
And for teaching purposes, that is what counts.

If it is not in concord with the living Magisterium, the value is what it is, in whatever context it is written in.
Requires some flexibility on the part of the reader to read these things in their context.
Click to expand...
If so, why did you cherry pick the quote out? You took a sentence completely out of context.
 
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From what I read she did not say this at all. She said from what I read is not that God wants us to enter purgatory and for us to believe the reason it was created was because he did not love us enough to ship us through. For us to believe his mercy has limits for where we had weakness. What people don’t realize it’s us who keep ourself from heaven not the mercy and love of Christ. The reason for purgatory is we still have some kind of attachment for a sin that was wiped clean. I hope I am using the right word. She is saying God does not want us to believe it’s God who wants this cleansing because he doesn’t love us enough or because maybe we came up short. The cleaning is for our own good and pretty much God would rather have us not need it.
 
I prefer to think of Purgatory as a state of purification, exactly as the Church teaches, but this is also my take, based on what Fr. Groeschel would say.

The doorway between Purgatory and heaven is open and God is there standing, beckoning us to leave and enter heaven. It is we who willingly and joyfully stay until we know our purification is complete.

Purgatory is a place where the virtue of charity lives on, and as such, while we can admit to suffering because of its purifying nature (what purification does not involve suffering?), it is also a place of great joy, even, I daresay, greater joy than we can experience here on earth, because despite the suffering of purification, the trials are over.

If I find myself in Purgatory, then God be praised because of his mercy.
 
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