I'm trying to understand how Protestants view sin

[SuzanneD]

I was a Southern Baptist and I believed , “once saved always saved”.
Sin was what separated us from God and without accepting Christ’s sacrifice we cannot be saved.I was taught that any sin was bad, not venial/mortal sin ranking. So a lie was as bad as murder as far as the penalty for sin goes. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins,All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, The penalty of sin is death,(hell) For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son;that who soever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Adamski]

Ok so the basics of what I am asking is how do you personally know as a Christian you aren’t doing something very offensive to God.

For instance I may have a very brief sinfull thought, or make the mistake of raising my voice to my children which would be a venial sin. But if I skipped mass to go skiing I would know its a mortal sin.

How do you as a Protestant know homosexual marriage, controception, porn and so on aren’t either proof that your really not saved, or a mortal sin

 

[benjohnson]

Ok so the basics of what I am asking is how do you personally know as a Christian you aren’t doing something very offensive to God.

I know if something is a sin based on the teaching of my pastor, church, and bible - they are all in agreement. If I’m not repentant and continue in this non-repentant and non-forgiven state, my soul is in jeopardy. As per church teaching and the bible.

 

[Adamski]

I know if something is a sin based on the teaching of my pastor, church, and bible - they are all in agreement. If I’m not repentant and continue in this non-repentant and non-forgiven state, my soul is in jeopardy. As per church teaching and the bible.

How do you know your pastor is right. While I do think your personal morals are very close to catholic teaching on almost everything after our long discussion together. And also I do personally want to thank you our meeting was instrumental in my wife wanting to have our mariaged reconized it the catholic church and her attending mass with me at least a couple times a month.

My concern in at the evangelical church attended for 7 years the pastor changed his moral teaching over time to conform with society.

Also a client is a episcopal pastor and they support abortion and gay marriage very admitly

 

[JonNC]

Ok so the basics of what I am asking is how do you personally know as a Christian you aren’t doing something very offensive to God.

For instance I may have a very brief sinfull thought, or make the mistake of raising my voice to my children which would be a venial sin. But if I skipped mass to go skiing I would know its a mortal sin.

How do you as a Protestant know homosexual marriage, controception, porn and so on aren’t either proof that your really not saved, or a mortal sin

My first thought is how are these any different than other sins? As an LCMS Lutheran, we see these that you mention as sin ( except some forms of contraception in some circumstances ).
In a general sense, however, the Augsburg Confession, in talking about confession, references Psalms 19, " Who can understand his errors". So, when confessing, we realize that there may be ways we have sinned that we lack awareness of, and rely on His grace to forgive us.

Jon

 

[aidanbradypop]

I was raised in a Southern Baptist congregation. They are in the OSAS camp and believe God hates and views all sin the same. Murder is the same as a lie. They do not believe in mortal sin because once you accept Christ, all sin is forgiven.

 

[benjohnson]

How do you know your pastor is right.

The short answer is that my pastor follows the church’s teaching and the church follows the teaching of scripture. If that ‘chain’ is broken, then I know something is going wrong.

While I do think your personal morals are very close to catholic teaching on almost everything after our long discussion together.

That’s a high compliment! Thank you!

And also I do personally want to thank you our meeting was instrumental in my wife wanting to have our mariaged reconized it the catholic church and her attending mass with me at least a couple times a month.

That makes me so very happy! But it truly was your effort and love that convinced your wife to respond to the Holy Spirit. I pray that she makes the full crossing across the Tiber with you!

My concern in at the evangelical church attended for 7 years the pastor changed his moral teaching over time to conform with society.

Changing morals is a definite sign that this pastor isn’t pointed toward the cross. If a pastor develops stronger and better developed morlas over the course of his ministry this would be a good thing - but if his morals are disintegrating then his sheep should seek better pastures!

Also a client is a episcopal pastor and they support abortion and gay marriage very admitly

Let your light shine upon them! Take it as an opportunity to evangelise - that every soul you meet is an opportunity to open their eyes to God, and to strengthen God’s presence in your own life.

 

[aidanbradypop]

The short answer is that my pastor follows the church’s teaching and the church follows the teaching of scripture. If that ‘chain’ is broken, then I know something is going wrong.

Catholics can state the same!

 

[UnumCorpus]

In one protestant assembly I was taught that only present and past sins can receive forgiveness and then only if you repent of them. Future sins cannot be forgiven until you commit them! Again repentance is the key. But you can’t repent of a sin you haven’t committed yet.

Yes, exactly.

 

[UnumCorpus]

They do not believe in mortal sin because once you accept Christ, all sin is forgiven.

I’m a little bit confused about the distinction you seem to imply here that is between forgiveness and mortal sin.

OSAS is clearly erroneous, but if you seek forgiveness for any sin, then it is forgiven even if it is mortal. So yes, through Christ, all sin is forgiven. I know the Catholic Church does not teach otherwise. Christ says that there is only one unforgivable sin, which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:32). Hopefully if someone does accept Christ, then they repent of all their sins past and present. Thus it is not strange for all their sins to be forgiven once someone has first become a Christian. Of course, as they grow as a Christian, they must continue to repent and confess the sins they committed after they have accepted Christ.

So though Catholics make a distinction between mortal and venial sins, I don’t actually see that as being hugely different from what I stated above. Everyone must have a contrite heart in order to receive forgiveness…and I know the Catholic Church teaches that it is possible to receive forgiveness for all sins (including mortal) except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

The difference more lies in that a Catholic must go through a different means of receiving forgiveness for mortal sins (Sacrament of Confession). Many Protestant denominations however still teach a form of confession is necessary (confessing directly to God in private prayer) though of course I realize that is not equivalent to the formal sacrament.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I’m a little bit confused about the distinction you seem to imply here that is between forgiveness and mortal sin.

OSAS is clearly erroneous, but if you seek forgiveness for any sin, then it is forgiven even if it is mortal. So yes, through Christ, all sin is forgiven. I know the Catholic Church does not teach otherwise. Christ says that there is only one unforgivable sin, which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:32). Hopefully if someone does accept Christ, then they repent of all their sins past and present. Thus it is not strange for all their sins to be forgiven once someone has first become a Christian. Of course, as they grow as a Christian, they must continue to repent and confess the sins they committed after they have accepted Christ.

So though Catholics make a distinction between mortal and venial sins, I don’t actually see that as being hugely different from what I stated above. Everyone must have a contrite heart in order to receive forgiveness…and I know the Catholic Church teaches that it is possible to receive forgiveness for all sins (including mortal) except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

The difference more lies in that a Catholic must go through a different means of receiving forgiveness for mortal sins (Sacrament of Confession). Many Protestant denominations however still teach a form of confession is necessary (confessing directly to God in private prayer) though of course I realize that is not equivalent to the formal sacrament.

1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48 - there is a distinction between mortal and venial sins. This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, but, today, most Protestants no longer agree that there is such a distinction. Mortal sins lead to death and must be absolved in the sacrament of reconciliation. Venial sins do not have to be confessed to a priest, but the pious Catholic practice is to do so in order to advance in our journey to holiness.

Matt. 5:19 - Jesus teaches that breaking the least of commandments is venial sin (the person is still saved but is least in the kingdom), versus mortal sin (the person is not saved).

In the OSAS camp, there are a few different views I have noticed. The certain Southern Baptist congregation I attended believe that when you accepted Christ, ALL your sins were forgiven…even the future ones that one would commit. So by accepting Christ, one would not really need to confess a sin because the blood of Christ already paid for all the sins of the world.

I have also met a Baptist lady that believes in OSAS that states we still should ask for God to forgive us out of respect and we should try to live our life without sin. I asked her if one did not confess their sins then do they still go to heaven? She stated that if they accepted Christ as their Lord and was “born-again.”

So it seems that even in the OSAS camp, there are many different ways one can view that type of theology. I see what you are saying though.

 

[LegoGE1947]

1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48 - there is a distinction between mortal and venial sins. This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, but, today, most Protestants no longer agree that there is such a distinction. Mortal sins lead to death and must be absolved in the sacrament of reconciliation. Venial sins do not have to be confessed to a priest, but the pious Catholic practice is to do so in order to advance in our journey to holiness.

Matt. 5:19 - Jesus teaches that breaking the least of commandments is venial sin (the person is still saved but is least in the kingdom), versus mortal sin (the person is not saved).

In the OSAS camp, there are a few different views I have noticed. The certain Southern Baptist congregation I attended believe that when you accepted Christ, ALL your sins were forgiven…even the future ones that one would commit. So by accepting Christ, one would not really need to confess a sin because the blood of Christ already paid for all the sins of the world.

I have also met a Baptist lady that believes in OSAS that states we still should ask for God to forgive us out of respect and we should try to live our life without sin. I asked her if one did not confess their sins then do they still go to heaven? She stated that if they accepted Christ as their Lord and was “born-again.”

So it seems that even in the OSAS camp, there are many different ways one can view that type of theology. I see what you are saying though.

That, to me, is just plain goofy. What happens to any left-over sin when Baptists die? Does it just drop off when they “go up”? When I was in the Assemblies of God years ago they taught, like Catholics, that you could walk away from God of your own free will, and that you “stayed saved” by walking with the Lord and keeping his commands.

 

[Reuben_J]

13 I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence which we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. 16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

RSVCE (1 Jn 5:13–17).

13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 14And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17*All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

ESV (1 Jn 5:13–17).

I think we can agree that: sin leading to death is mortal and that sin not leading to death is not mortal.

I mean, its semantics but we can see how the beauty of the RSV brings forth these words into a much simpler manner.

Right there in the Bible there is a difference in sins.

Further, in relation to sin there is an explicit clause:

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

RSVCE (1 Jn 1:9–10).

Which is completely consistent with what John writes:

21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

RSVCE (Jn 20:21–23).

Thank you for pointing this out. It cannot get any clearer than that. Indeed there is such thing as mortal and venial sin. The exact words may not be in the Bible but the meaning is not in doubt.

 

[Publisher]

If Protestants of any denomination could please tell me how you personally interprate sin.
Please don’t give me the typical answer all actions against God are sin
I want to know what are really bad sins and how you know it’s really bad.
This is spurned by talking to an episcapalian pastor that said abortion is ok, a Baptsit saying self gradification is ok, another Baptsit saying thier not sure if an iud is abortion inducing so they don’t know what to tell thier congregation, a Lutheran saying a vesectimy is ok but not the pill, a elca Lutheran saying gay marriage is ok.
This was the biggest issue by far that brought me back to the catholic church the clarity of the docterine of mortal sin and the structured view of it

Thanks

“sin” is anything which breaks communion with God. We know if we “sin” because the Holy Spirit convicts us of ‘sin"…and our “connection” to the Presence becomes “strained” if not “broken”…then we know "sin’ has caused it. “Sin” means " missing the mark"…wome “sin” is further away from the “bullseye” than others…Sin quiets the Voice of God…dims the Light Within.

 

[Adamski]

“sin” is anything which breaks communion with God. We know if we “sin” because the Holy Spirit convicts us of ‘sin"…and our “connection” to the Presence becomes “strained” if not “broken”…then we know "sin’ has caused it. “Sin” means " missing the mark"…wome “sin” is further away from the “bullseye” than others…Sin quiets the Voice of God…dims the Light Within.

That is the same logic that my pastor at a christain missionary alliance told someone before they committed sucicide because doing that and giving someone the finger where both sins against God “good logic”. That is exactly why I left!!!

 

[Publisher]

That is the same logic that my pastor at a christain missionary alliance told someone before they committed sucicide because doing that and giving someone the finger where both sins against God “good logic”. That is exactly why I left!!!

You obviously misunderstood the pastor…he was not 'equivocating" the two actions…both were indeed sin…one could be repented of…the other was a “permananent” solution to a troubled soul.

So, what is “sin” for you? “Equivocatiing” or something else?

 

[shaky]

The Sacrament of Penance (Confession) plays a big role on the concept of sin. Protestant denominations that reject the idea of this Sacrament also would view sins accordingly without the needs for personal confession and penance.

In some protestant circles they do confess their sins to each other.

 

[shaky]

Ever heard the saying “When you point one finger at another person you are pointing four fingers back at you”? It seems always easy to see the sins which other people commit. I think Jesus said it best when he condemned people for trying to remove a splinter from someone else’s eye when they themselves have a huge log in their own eye. As far as your post is concerned in my younger years I’ve “been there, done that” It always amazed me that two protestant assemblies across the street from one another could read the same Bible, same verse and get two completely different interpretations from that verse.

I have seen the same thing happen between Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox:shrug:

 

[shaky]

13 I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence which we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. 16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

RSVCE (1 Jn 5:13–17).

13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 14And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17*All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

ESV (1 Jn 5:13–17).

I think we can agree that: sin leading to death is mortal and that sin not leading to death is not mortal.

I mean, its semantics but we can see how the beauty of the RSV brings forth these words into a much simpler manner.

Right there in the Bible there is a difference in sins.

Further, in relation to sin there is an explicit clause:

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

RSVCE (1 Jn 1:9–10).

Which is completely consistent with what John writes:

21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

RSVCE (Jn 20:21–23).

Why ‘‘not pray’’ for sin that leads to death ?..Why does God ‘‘give life’’ to Sin that does not lead to death ?

I sort of understood Sin that leads to death was willfully rejecting Jesus Christ as the way of salvation. Trample on his blood, Blaspheme the holy spirit…

All other sin does not lead to death because aslong as One believes in Christ One can Repent of his sins and confess and forsake them…This gives life.

But aslong as One rejects Jesus Christ as the way of salvation. One will not Repent of his sins and confess and foresake them…This leads to death.

 

[shaky]

Most Protestants who are accused of believing in “sinless perfection” don’t believe in sinless perfection. They believe in Christian perfection or entire sanctification, which is not the inability to sin but a work of grace where God purifies our motives and allows perfect submission and full consecration. This full consecration allows the Christian to more fully live a life of holiness, but no one will ever be “sinless.”

What about the Ones that claim that after receiving Christ. That they had later at some point of time in their life come to a Point where they have stopped sinning any sin altogether. They claim they do not Sin no More and Can not Sin. 1 John 3:9. They say that this is the point you have to come to. To get to heaven.

When you point out 1 John 1:8-10 to them. They seem to frown on that saying if you have to keep confessing your sins to God you are still a Slave to Sin and sinners will not enter heaven when they die. The soul that Sins will die.