I'm very liberal, considering Catholicism.

[bella5]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

Living in this great country in our human eyes makes us free (religion, voting, abortion, gay marriage, etc.) however we are not truly free until we live within God’s laws (Ten Commandments, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Sacred Tradition, etc.) which frees us from sin; keeps us from going hell and allows us to obtain sanctifying grace which we need to live in heaven. This is true Freedom. I was once a liberal Catholic and now I am ashamed to even claim that however in my search for the Truth did I come to this realization. Pray to our Lord that he will show you the Truth the Way and the Light. As far as a voting Catholic who votes for a politician who is pro-abortion that person may not have a well formed conscience. However, if a Catholic votes for a pro-abortion candidate that person must seek reconciliation only if that person has true contrition.

 

[exaltarboy]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

Yes that’s right. You can’t go to communion if you support pro-choice abortion. To me that’s the same as being excommunicated. It’s hard being a Catholic. It’s easy being something else.

 

[fhansen]

Catholicism doesn’t line up perfectly with the religious right or any political party. She may come off as “liberal” on some issues-speaking out against war, capital punishment, abuses of capitalism, human rights or social justice while appearing “conservative” on such issues as abortion and homosexuality. I would never steer anyone to another Christian “Church”. There is no other Church than the Catholic one.

 

[ericka1701]

When did this whole liberal/conservative hogwash start? I don’t vote at primaries because I have to register with either one or the other party and that will make a statement to others that is not nessicarily correct. When asked if I’m Republican or Democrat, I reply that I am a Republicrat.

Bella5, I used to be on the far left as far as politics is concerned, as well. I even joined a young-Democrats organization and held office and campaigned for candidates. When I was looking to join the Catholic Church, I made a statement that I wished that I could still be “completely” liberal and still be Catholic to a priest. He advised me (and was very nice about it, too) to pray that I bend my will towards God, and not God’s will towards mine. I did, and I’ve made a complete 180 regarding abortion and homosexual “marriage”, and some of the other issues are not as absolute. It’s a day by day process, but one that I’m happy to let God take control of.

God Bless!
Ericka

 

[chris_molter]

Americans tend to put liberal/conservative (red/blue, GOP/DEM) glasses on and look at the world through those man made lenses. This creates all sorts of problems as the world doesn’t conform to these artificial boundaries.

 

[bella5]

When did this whole liberal/conservative hogwash start? I don’t vote at primaries because I have to register with either one or the other party and that will make a statement to others that is not nessicarily correct. When asked if I’m Republican or Democrat, I reply that I am a Republicrat.

Bella5, I used to be on the far left as far as politics is concerned, as well. I even joined a young-Democrats organization and held office and campaigned for candidates. When I was looking to join the Catholic Church, I made a statement that I wished that I could still be “completely” liberal and still be Catholic to a priest. He advised me (and was very nice about it, too) to pray that I bend my will towards God, and not God’s will towards mine. I did, and I’ve made a complete 180 regarding abortion and homosexual “marriage”, and some of the other issues are not as absolute. It’s a day by day process, but one that I’m happy to let God take control of.

God Bless!
Ericka

Yes ma’am I can totally empathize with you. I too pray that prayer “Please Lord align my will with Your Will” daily but especially during the Eucharistic prayer when father holds up the Body of Christ at the altar. It’s been helping because God has granted me the grace to understand our beautiful and rich Faith more and more.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

I second this. Although I would love for you to embrace the truth of the Catholic faith, I feel that the Episcopal faith would be easier for you to accept because it is far more liberal than the Catholic faith. Make no mistake, being Catholic in the modern world is extremely difficult. We are different than the rest of society and are held to a far greater moral standard. Our beliefs are offensive to many people. However, our doctrines and beliefs will never change. Liberal theologians and clergy have tried to change the faith over the last forty years but they have failed. The Church will never compromise with the modern worldview. If you hold “liberal” views, you will find the Catholic faith difficult to embrace. However, I encourage you to re-examine your beliefs and pray to God for guidance.

I for one do NOT agree with this notion. The truth is the truth – either we endorse it or we don’t. It is not appropriate for Catholics to recommend that Joe Convert try a different “denomination” because its teaching might be more convenient for him; we are in the business of telling the truth and bringing people to it, not placing them in a situation that makes them comfortable.

To the OP: re-read the post above that makes the distinction between conservative and faithful. The Catholic Church teaches the truth, and we invite you to examine the reasoning behind that belief. But it is not right for one of us to say, “Try this or that non-Catholic church”, because (according to our beliefs) those churches are NOT the true Church.

Peace,
Dante

Peace,
Dante

 

[StCsDavid]

Case in point where the Church doesn’t walk in lock step with the conservative right is immigration reform. The Church’s view is much closer to the liberal side of the fence.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

Hey, I’m politically moderate-to-liberal (though still a Republican, yes I make it work) myself and I also converted to Catholicism.

No, the Catholic Church is not allowed to politically endorse one party, candidate or viewpoint. We have saints and leaders like Josemaria Escriva (a political fascist) and Dorothy Day (who was more socialist, not a saint but declared Venerable). We are called, however to endorse justice for everyone, from conception till natural death and to fight for the rights of the poor and the oppressed. We are also called to be good stewards of money and of creation.

Now, the Pope said (can’t remember the source, but I have seen it), about candidates, that one may vote for a pro-choice candidate, provided that the reason you do is not because you yourself support abortion. The US Catholic bishops took a much more conservative stance on it, but that’s it.

And I have to say, welcome! Jesus loves everyone, regardless of political viewpoints.

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

I wanted to clarify what I said a little bit more so that you had more to work with whilst responding.

What do I mean exactly by “liberal”?

For one, that I don’t believe our country should become a theocracy. In other words, I strongly believe in a secular government. That means to me that although I can come to accept the Catholic teaching that marriage is between one man and one woman - and that I myself would never marry someone of the same gender - I do not believe that any religion has any right to impose that view on the secular people of our country. I believe they should have the choice, if they so desire, to have a civil wedding, or if their particular church allows it, to have a religious ceremony. Therefor if I were to vote on the topic, I would not vote to ban gay marriage, I would vote to allow it because it’s a moral choice that is between those people and God and trying to impose my morality on them would to some extent take away their free will. That explanation is similar to how I feel about abortion, but not exactly the same. Of all the issues on the liberal agenda, I am most opposed to abortion and would love it for there to be a pro-life Democrat. But I know they’re hard to come by. I wouldn’t vote for a Democrat JUST BECAUSE they’re pro-choice, but I have ZERO reasons to vote for a Republican other than the pro-life issue. I refuse to vote based on just ONE issue. Therefor, I would probably NEVER vote Republican.

If the Church has a problem with me voting Democrat…what if I choose not to vote? Is purposefully NOT voting for a pro-life candidate as sinful as voting for a pro-choice candidate?

I don’t want this to become a political debate. I would simply like to understand which things exactly am I “supposed to believe” as a Catholic, including things that involve politics.

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

The link to the document below explains all the considerations one must take as a Catholic’s participation in political life.

[CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DOCTRINAL NOTE
on some questions regarding
The Participation of Catholics in Political Life](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...s/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html)

I’m going to read through this link. I would like to know, however, whether or not this information is something that I have to agree with in order to be considered Catholic. There is just so much information regarding Catholicism that it can be overwhelming and like I said I have a hard time differentiating between opinions and official teachings.

Maybe someone could answer these for me…

I have to believe everything in the Catechism? (I think the answer is yes.)

I have to believe everything in the Bible? (I think the answer is yes.)

I have to believe any infallible statements the Pope makes? (Not sure if it’s required to believe these things in order to be Catholic.)

I have to believe everything that comes out of the Vatican? (Not sure about the answer.)

I have to believe everything my Bishop teaches? (Not sure here either.)

Please advice.

 

[m134e5]

Please define what you mean by “liberal.”

To me, liberal means that you support abortion, homosexuality, homosexual marriage and homosexual adoption.

I wouldn’t reduce the definition of one’s political ideology down to those four things (really only two, since the last two could fall in with the second)- there are too many variations on other issues among people who share the same beliefs in these areas.

 

[davidv]

I wanted to clarify what I said a little bit more so that you had more to work with whilst responding.

What do I mean exactly by “liberal”?

For one, that I don’t believe our country should become a theocracy. In other words, I strongly believe in a secular government. That means to me that although I can come to accept the Catholic teaching that marriage is between one man and one woman - and that I myself would never marry someone of the same gender - I do not believe that any religion has any right to impose that view on the secular people of our country. I believe they should have the choice, if they so desire, to have a civil wedding, or if their particular church allows it, to have a religious ceremony. Therefor if I were to vote on the topic, I would not vote to ban gay marriage, I would vote to allow it because it’s a moral choice that is between those people and God and trying to impose my morality on them would to some extent take away their free will. That explanation is similar to how I feel about abortion, but not exactly the same. Of all the issues on the liberal agenda, I am most opposed to abortion and would love it for there to be a pro-life Democrat. But I know they’re hard to come by. I wouldn’t vote for a Democrat JUST BECAUSE they’re pro-choice, but I have ZERO reasons to vote for a Republican other than the pro-life issue. I refuse to vote based on just ONE issue. Therefor, I would probably NEVER vote Republican.

If the Church has a problem with me voting Democrat…what if I choose not to vote? Is purposefully NOT voting for a pro-life candidate as sinful as voting for a pro-choice candidate?

I don’t want this to become a political debate. I would simply like to understand which things exactly am I “supposed to believe” as a Catholic, including things that involve politics.

I believe your phrase "which things exactly am I “supposed to believe” is far too limiting in this discussion. In his letter, James exhorts us:

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Jas 1:22

The best ways to “do” is to obey the greatest commandments, love God and love your neighbor. All of the teachings of the Church help us to better carry out these commands.

Each of us has been called to a vocation by God. Most, if not all of them, involve participation in society. The Church allows us access to the “wisdom from above” that helps us to faithfully live out this vocation. This wisdom is described by James.

But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, without uncertainty or insincerity. Jas 3:17

 

[gardenswithkids]

…I don’t want this to become a political debate. I would simply like to understand which things exactly am I “supposed to believe” as a Catholic, including things that involve politics.

If you can not in good conscience vote for a pro-life politician because of other issues and the only other choice in a pro-choice politician, you may choose not to vote. Voting in elections is not a required by the Catholic Church. Yet, I think it is impossible to keep faith and morals out of politics. The question is whose faith and *whose *morality?

Do you have a Catechism yet? That explains Catholic faith and morals. (If you don’t have one yet, I recommend you get the greenish-grey thicker one as it has a bigger glossary, index and Biblical references in the back that makes it easier to find information in the main text.)

I suspect that you want to learn what the Catholic Church teaches and want to follow those teachings if you become Catholic. Sadly many life-long Catholics do not know and some who do know what the Church teaches reject some of her teachings—that’s what people often think of when they hear the term “liberal Catholic”. Converts don’t typically join a faith that they reject.

If you decide to pursue entrance into the Catholic Church there will be areas that cause you to struggle, not because of your political beliefs as much as because of your personal sin. No offense to you–we all sin. The fullness of the teachings of Christ are not easy to follow, and many stumble. Catholic moral teachings are not simply “no abortion, no homosexual relations.” Our teachings–particularly those on marriage–go much deeper into the relationship between Christ and His bride, the Church.

 

[chris_molter]

Maybe someone could answer these for me…

I have to believe everything in the Catechism? (I think the answer is yes.)

Correct

I have to believe everything in the Bible? (I think the answer is yes.)

Correct

I have to believe any infallible statements the Pope makes? (Not sure if it’s required to believe these things in order to be Catholic.)

It is required.

I have to believe everything that comes out of the Vatican? (Not sure about the answer.)

Not everything that comes out of “the Vatican” is something that would require “belief”. Most things aren’t and deal with matters of canon law or liturgical rubrics, etc.

I have to believe everything my Bishop teaches? (Not sure here either.)

If your Bishop is teaching what the Church teaches, then yes.

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

If you can not in good conscience vote for a pro-life politician because of other issues and the only other choice in a pro-choice politician, you may choose not to vote. Voting in elections is not a required by the Catholic Church. Yet, I think it is impossible to keep faith and morals out of politics. The question is whose faith and *whose *morality?

Do you have a Catechism yet? That explains Catholic faith and morals. (If you don’t have one yet, I recommend you get the greenish-grey thicker one as it has a bigger glossary, index and Biblical references in the back that makes it easier to find information in the main text.)

I suspect that you want to learn what the Catholic Church teaches and want to follow those teachings if you become Catholic. Sadly many life-long Catholics do not know and some who do know what the Church teaches reject some of her teachings—that’s what people often think of when they hear the term “liberal Catholic”. Converts don’t typically join a faith that they reject.

If you decide to pursue entrance into the Catholic Church there will be areas that cause you to struggle, not because of your political beliefs as much as because of your personal sin. No offense to you–we all sin. The fullness of the teachings of Christ are not easy to follow, and many stumble. Catholic moral teachings are not simply “no abortion, no homosexual relations.” Our teachings–particularly those on marriage–go much deeper into the relationship between Christ and His bride, the Church.

Yes, if I choose to join the Church it will be because I agree with what they teach on matters of faith. There are some faith issues which I still struggle with, such as Papal Infallibility and the Marian doctrines. I’m trying to sort those out too, but I also need to address the political stuff. Someone said it was “too limiting” to ask what EXACTLY is a Catholic supposed to believe…but how can I convert if I don’t know exactly that? I understand that there are things that Catholics consider WISE, that perhaps SHOULD be believed…but I don’t think that it’s the same as saying it MUST be believed. I’m sure there’s some allowance for dissent, I just need to understand to what degree. If I find that I disagree with some things but that those things don’t make or break my Catholic faith, then I could convert. It’s not to say that I will forever disagree, maybe it is better to believe those things and the Holy Spirit will guide me in that direction, but for now, I am coming from a liberal background and I can’t just discard all my intellectual objections to some teachings, which is why I want to understand if they’re “MUST be believed things” or if there is any leeway. What would be the point in converting if the next time I vote I’ll be excommunicated??

Got to go to work. Will come back tomorrow.

 

[Letchitsa1]

The Episcopal Church does not hold the fullness of Truth, nor do they have Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. I don’t feel that pointing anyone toward anything less that what Christ intended (His One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church - the Catholic Church) is extremely irresponsible.

If someone has issues with the Catholic Church they need to change their understanding and acceptance to conform to the Truth - not just find a shoe that fits.

~Liza

Agreed, and very well stated. Thank you!

 

[Letchitsa1]

Yes that’s right. You can’t go to communion if you support pro-choice abortion. To me that’s the same as being excommunicated. It’s hard being a Catholic. It’s easy being something else.

Not entirely true. What both the pope and the US Council of Catholic Bishops have clearly stated is that a Catholic should not present themselves for communion if they have voted for a pro-abortion politician precisely because they are pro-abortion. Both have also noted that there may be certain circumstances where there is proportionate reasoning that would allow someone to vote for a pro-abortion candidate in spite of their pro-abortion stance.

As with many things - it goes back to intent. If a Catholic intends by their vote to further the legalized killing of a whole class of people - the unborn - then that Catholic should not continue to receive communion until they have received sacramental absolution. If, however, they have voted for a candidate for other reasons and it happens that he or she is pro-abortion as well - then there is not necessarily an issue there. One example already noted was that if you have two pro-abortion candidates, then the other factors easily come into play. Basically - consider abortion as the preeminent life issue. However, being pro-life does not end at being anti-abortion. It encompasses respect for human life at all stages, from conception until natural death. The candidate we should vote for is the candidate that most fully embraces the full gambit of Catholic values - is pro-life, but also is the most aligned with other Catholic social doctrines.

Also of note - there is a difference in not being able to receive communion and excommunication. Case in point - several of the bishops have told several of the Catholic candidates they are not to present themselves for communion in their dioceses as long as they maintain their pro-abortion stance. To the best of my knowledge, however, no bishop has formally excommunicated any of these politicians. The effect of the two is the same in that the individual still cannot receive communion, but the difference may be in their status as far as ability to receive other sacraments. The formally excommunicated, for example, only have access to the sacrament of reconciliation.

 

[davidv]

Yes, if I choose to join the Church it will be because I agree with what they teach on matters of faith. There are some faith issues which I still struggle with, such as Papal Infallibility and the Marian doctrines. I’m trying to sort those out too, but I also need to address the political stuff. Someone said it was “too limiting” to ask what EXACTLY is a Catholic supposed to believe…but how can I convert if I don’t know exactly that?

One of the reasons I offered that response, is that none of us has the intellectual capacity to understand all that the Church teaches. At some point, one must be willing to trust that what the Church teaches is true, whether it is understood or not.

For a list of basic things to believe, I would suggest the Apostles Creed or Nicene Creed.

I understand that there are things that Catholics consider WISE, that perhaps SHOULD be believed…but I don’t think that it’s the same as saying it MUST be believed. I’m sure there’s some allowance for dissent,

I do not believe there is allowance for dissent. There is, however, allowance for doubt.

I just need to understand to what degree. If I find that I disagree with some things but that those things don’t make or break my Catholic faith, then I could convert. It’s not to say that I will forever disagree, maybe it is better to believe those things and the Holy Spirit will guide me in that direction, but for now, I am coming from a liberal background and I can’t just discard all my intellectual objections to some teachings, which is why I want to understand if they’re “MUST be believed things” or if there is any leeway. What would be the point in converting if the next time I vote I’ll be excommunicated??

Got to go to work. Will come back tomorrow.

From what I know, they way you choose to vote will not cause you to be excommunicated. You may have committed a grave sin, but this is not, usually, cause for excommunication.

 

[StCsDavid]

Doubtfire…

It’s important to note that the continuous theme in scripture is that the opposite of faith is not doubt but rather disobedience. Politics is the concern of worldly, temporal concerns. The Church has an interest in truth and eternal matters. So if you’re politics are such that they run opposed to the Church, then does not the possibility exist that such concerns are of a lower priority than the higher truth that exists within gift of Church given by Christ? That’s a fancy way of saying, your politics are interesting, but ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things.