I'm very liberal, considering Catholicism.

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D0UBTFIRE said:
…To those of you who are curious, I’m reading a book titled “What Makes Us Catholic?” by Thomas H. Groome. It’s a great read so far!

To those of you that said maybe I should consider being Episcopalian, I looked into it and decided against it. I rather reform the Church from within than pick a sectarian group to belong to.
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Thanks for the update. Glad you decided to further investigate the Catholic Church.

Catholic reformers are Saints such as St. Teresa of Avila (who reformed the Carmelite order) and St. Ignatius of Loyola (who founded the Jesuit order.) Reforming while within the Church requires great sanctity–a devout prayer-life combined with obedience to legitimate Church authorities and authentic Church teachings. I pray that you achieve this.

There are many liberals within the Catholic Church: some who follow the Church’s teachings and many who don’t. I hope you are among those who follow the Church teachings, *even (and perhaps especially) when they are difficult. *The path to holiness is rarely easy–but people living lives of great holiness is the best way to reform the Church and the world.

If you become authentically Catholic and follow Church teachings, you *will *reform the Church and make the world a better place. Many liberals within the Catholic Church disobey and/or are ignorant of some Church teachings. Many Catholic liberals I know embrace the Church’s social teachings, while rejecting the Church’s teachings on human sexuality. Such people give both Catholics *and *liberals a bad reputation.

Please do not disregard any of the Church’s teachings. Abortion* is* a human rights issue as abortion destroys humans in our weakest and most vulnerable stages of development. The Church teachings about the role of pro-creation with sexual intercourse do not discriminate at all based on marital status or sexual preference. We are *all *called to chastity and holiness. I pray you achieve that.

May God bless you this Christmas season and throughout the New Year.
 
grampben said:
Liberal does not mean pro abortion. One can be a liberal and a catholic rather easily.
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Really? Are there a lot of pro-life liberal canidates out there a 'liberal" catholic can vote for?

Or does you definition of being pro-abortion apply only to those who do the actaul dismembering?
 
estesbob said:
Really? Are there a lot of pro-life liberal canidates out there a 'liberal" catholic can vote for?

Or does you definition of being pro-abortion apply only to those who do the actaul dismembering?
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Just because a vast majority of liberals are pro abortion doesn’t mean to be a liberal one has to be pro abortion.
Also, being liberal doesn’t mean you have to vote liberal. When faced with a choice I’d vote conservative if the best pro life candidate was conservative.

Where I’m from abortion is illegal, so it’s not really an issue.
 
grampben said:
Just because a vast majority of liberals are pro abortion doesn’t mean to be a liberal one has to be pro abortion.
Also, being liberal doesn’t mean you have to vote liberal. When faced with a choice I’d vote conservative if the best pro life candidate was conservative.

Where I’m from abortion is illegal, so it’s not really an issue.
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Sorry-didnt notice you location. you would be suprised at the number of catholics in the US who believe its OK to vote for pro-abortion canidates.
 
estesbob said:
Sorry-didnt notice you location. you would be suprised at the number of catholics in the US who believe its OK to vote for pro-abortion canidates.
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Yeah, and I can understand why you get so worked up. What happens though if the main dem candidate has a 100% NARAL rating, but the Rep candidate supports abortion for the first 25 weeks and for rape/incest but there is a 100% pro life third party candidate? Are those who voted ‘lesser evil’ morally culpable for any deaths by abortion that could happen under that candidates term of office?
 
grampben said:
Yeah, and I can understand why you get so worked up. What happens though if the main dem candidate has a 100% NARAL rating, but the Rep candidate supports abortion for the first 25 weeks and for rape/incest but there is a 100% pro life third party candidate? Are those who voted ‘lesser evil’ morally culpable for any deaths by abortion that could happen under that candidates term of office?
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Since we have never faced that situation the answer is i dont know. The Church says you can vote for either canidate 2 or 3.

As the Church puts it one is not voting for the lesser of two evils-one is voting to limit evil.
 
estesbob said:
Really? Are there a lot of pro-life liberal canidates out there a 'liberal" catholic can vote for?

Or does you definition of being pro-abortion apply only to those who do the actaul dismembering?
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I spent the last three minutes trying to think of one----what does your list look like?
 
I say join the Catholic church, and become part of the discussion. No one is perfect, an your brain will always struggle with some aspect of the church’s teaching. Join and focus on what matters, developing a relationship with Jesus as part of the church He formed thousands of years ago. Focus on helping the needy through its many ministries. Don’t hinge your membership on perfect and immediate alignment of every thought in your brain with Catholic teaching. Being Catholic is not easy, IMO, so many ways one can misbehave relative to the rules - but it is such a privilege to be part of the original church, to participate in its traditions. To be able to receive the Holy Eucharist and be part of that miracle as it happens in front of us. The list goes on and on for me.

N
 
gardenswithkids said:
Thanks for the update. Glad you decided to further investigate the Catholic Church.

Catholic reformers are Saints such as St. Teresa of Avila (who reformed the Carmelite order) and St. Ignatius of Loyola (who founded the Jesuit order.) Reforming while within the Church requires great sanctity–a devout prayer-life combined with obedience to legitimate Church authorities and authentic Church teachings. I pray that you achieve this.

There are many liberals within the Catholic Church: some who follow the Church’s teachings and many who don’t. I hope you are among those who follow the Church teachings, *even (and perhaps especially) when they are difficult. *The path to holiness is rarely easy–but people living lives of great holiness is the best way to reform the Church and the world.

If you become authentically Catholic and follow Church teachings, you *will *reform the Church and make the world a better place. Many liberals within the Catholic Church disobey and/or are ignorant of some Church teachings. Many Catholic liberals I know embrace the Church’s social teachings, while rejecting the Church’s teachings on human sexuality. Such people give both Catholics *and *liberals a bad reputation.

Please do not disregard any of the Church’s teachings. Abortion* is* a human rights issue as abortion destroys humans in our weakest and most vulnerable stages of development. The Church teachings about the role of pro-creation with sexual intercourse do not discriminate at all based on marital status or sexual preference. We are *all *called to chastity and holiness. I pray you achieve that.

May God bless you this Christmas season and throughout the New Year.
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Just clarifying that I don’t think abortion is moral. I am against it, but I think there are better ways of reducing abortions than just making it illegal (i.e. better health care for moms and babies, better sex education, support systems, etc.).
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
Just clarifying that I don’t think abortion is moral. I am against it, but I think there are better ways of reducing abortions than just making it illegal (i.e. better health care for moms and babies, better sex education, support systems, etc.).
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Why cant we do both?

Let me give you an example. Lower poverty, counseling programs. early intervetion , etc would probably reduce the rate of murder in this country. Should muder be made legal until we can solve the root problems of those who murder?
 
estesbob said:
Why cant we do both?

Let me give you an example. Lower poverty, counseling programs. early intervetion , etc would probably reduce the rate of murder in this country. Should muder be made legal until we can solve the root problems of those who murder?
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The problem is that not everyone thinks that abortion is immoral, unlike everyone thinks that murder is immoral. We have to deal with the other half of the country, we’re divided on the issue, unfortunatly. Thus, I don’t think striving to make it illegal should be the first thing we do. I think striving to reduce it is the first step.
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
The problem is that not everyone thinks that abortion is immoral, unlike everyone thinks that murder is immoral. We have to deal with the other half of the country, we’re divided on the issue, unfortunatly. Thus, I don’t think striving to make it illegal should be the first thing we do. I think striving to reduce it is the first step.
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Legalizing something MAKES it moral to the vast majority of people. Moral people obey the law.
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?
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Well as for voting for a politician that is pro-abortion and being excommunicated that is still a hot debate at the Vatican. However in regards to being liberal? Well just read the CCC, Scripture and Catholic Social Teaching and over all the Catholic Church is supposed to be liberal in that sense.
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
Just clarifying that I don’t think abortion is moral. I am against it, but I think there are better ways of reducing abortions than just making it illegal (i.e. better health care for moms and babies, better sex education, support systems, etc.).
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The Catholic Church is at the forefront of all of these.

Elizabeth House, which provides shelter, schooling, employment, and life skills training for at-risk mothers, is run by the Sisters of the Precious Blood, a Catholic order of religious sisters and nuns.

Nobody in the Catholic Church is saying that “abortion must become illegal” - no. Although that would certainly be a positive outcome, if it were to happen, from the point of view of the Church.

What the Catholic Church says is that you cannot participate either directly or indirectly in the procurement of any abortion - that is, you cannot recommend to any girl that she get an abortion, you cannot pay the wages of any person who would make such a recommendation, you cannot drive her to her Planned Parenthood appointment, you cannot pay someone to drive her to her Planned Parenthood appointment, you cannot allow your tax dollars to fund an abortion clinic or any form of pro-abortion counselling, and you cannot vote for any politician who promises to make abortion more available than it already is. And of course, you cannot have an abortion yourself, or support any medical student who is studying how to become an abortionist, or (if you happen to be a doctor) perform any abortions, yourself, or pay anyone to have an abortion, or to give someone else an abortion.
 
Did we succeed in scaring this fellow away from Catholicism?

At the very least we succeeded in turning the thread into a discussion on abortion.
 
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