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DianJo
Guest
Just because evidence shows that people were crucified in many different ways doesn’t mean that Jesus was not crucified they way we believe He was.
There is no evidence to show exactly how He was crucified.
It would be my understanding that the particular image we are used to came from somewhere - maybe the people who were there. Maybe they told others about how Jesus was crucified. Maybe this image was passed down through tradition and someone finally put it on canvas.
To me, this is another attempt to discredit anything having to do with Jesus or Christianity. Another way to place doubt.
I don’t buy it.
There is no evidence to show exactly how He was crucified.
It would be my understanding that the particular image we are used to came from somewhere - maybe the people who were there. Maybe they told others about how Jesus was crucified. Maybe this image was passed down through tradition and someone finally put it on canvas.
To me, this is another attempt to discredit anything having to do with Jesus or Christianity. Another way to place doubt.
I don’t buy it.
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JSmitty2005
Guest
I’m with ya. My liberal friends like to send me junk like this thinking I’ll get all riled up about it. This doesn’t bother me as much as the other article I posted about Jesus not really walking on water. Anyways, I just wanted to see what you guys thought.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Ahhhhhhhh, I love the smell of complete ignorance in persecuting the Church!!! As DianJo pointed out, the article just says, “Hey, they could have done it differently”!!!
So what! We’ve known for centuries that the Romans were very imaginative in the way they killed their criminals.
Notworthy
So what! We’ve known for centuries that the Romans were very imaginative in the way they killed their criminals.
Notworthy
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Ted_CharlotteNC
Guest
I agree and it is a non-issue. Our salvaton is not based on how Jesus was crucified, but why.
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PraRFLEsEkHm
Guest
Ahhh, but we do have THIS . Which I, personally, accept as genuine. However, should it be proven, at some point, to be a forgery or not Christ’s (Although the blood type matches stigmatics and Eucharistic Miracles ) it will not rattle my faith in the least. Nor should anything like Da Vinci Code, or Judas papers, apparitions of Our Blessed Mother, or anything else. Our Faith is in the Risen Lord, through His Church, Born of the Blessed Virgin, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Period. Anything and everything else - with the exception of Holy Scripture, and the Eucharist - is icing on the cake.
Peace
John
Peace
John
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
JSmitty2005 said:
None of these details are news - Martin Hengel says all this in his book “Crucifixion”, which is about thirty years old.
Just how people were crucified depended on the executioners. There’s a late first-century example of a robber chief who was crucified and ripped to bits by a bear. People could be crucified upside down, through the genitals, set alight - Jesus was fortunate, compared to some: especially in dying so quickly. ##
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Mike_D30
Guest
Right on time for Holy Week, it’s par for the course, people love subtle attacks like the very image of Christ that we venerate is false before most major Christian Holy Days. In my opinion the Christian portrayal of the crucifixion makes perfect sense. Jesus must have had his hands and feet pierced to fulfill scripture not be bound with cords. Jesus looked up to the sky during the crucifixion, so that tells me Jesus was crucified head up, and nailed to the cross.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Point out that we already knew all of this since Peter was crucified upside down and St. Andrew was crucified on and “X”.
However, they mess up when they assert that Jesus was not nailed to the cross through the hands and feet because the prophesies foretold that “they have pierced my hands and my feet…” (Psalm 22:16) and then in John 20:24-29 Jesus tells St. Thomas to “Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.” which tells us volumes that they seem to have ignored.
To bad for them…
Pax vobiscum,
However, they mess up when they assert that Jesus was not nailed to the cross through the hands and feet because the prophesies foretold that “they have pierced my hands and my feet…” (Psalm 22:16) and then in John 20:24-29 Jesus tells St. Thomas to “Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.” which tells us volumes that they seem to have ignored.
To bad for them…
Pax vobiscum,
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brotherhrolf
Guest
We have far more to fear from Islam and Dan Brown then we do from exactly how Our Lord was crucified. That he was crucified and died on the cross is a tenet of our faith. Islam and Dan Brown mock Our Lord’s crucifixion. One openly calls God a deciever and the other just assumes it happens without explanation. Neither appreciates Roman history and that when a procurator says do it, it was done.
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Liberian
Guest
JSmitty,
See my response to your other post about Jesus supposedly walking on ice. I wouldn’t get upset about it; it shows the complete intellectual bankruptcy of atheism.
- Liberian
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JSmitty2005
Guest
This doesn’t bother me at all. I really just posted it to show how desperate our world is to try and disprove anything that has to do with Christianity…you’re right, it’s “the complete intellectual bankruptcy of atheism.” I like the way you put that.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Guys, its when they stop persecuting us for what we believe that we really need to start worrying.
Think about it!
Notworthy
Think about it!
Notworthy
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mtr01
Guest
Exactly. The world tried to kill Jesus 2,000 years ago…and it’s still trying to kill Him today. Why do you think that is?
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JSmitty2005
Guest
After the Second Vatican Council there was all kinds of worldy praise for the Church. Kind of makes you wonder.
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RyanL
Guest
Not really. There are gumballs who misread V2, just like there are gumballs who read Deus Caritas Est as permitting room for homosexual marriage. If the “world” understood what V2 taught, and not just the perceived “Spirit of V2”, I doubt there would be as much praise (as it was simply an affirmation of 2000 years of constant teaching).After the Second Vatican Council there was all kinds of worldy praise for the Church. Kind of makes you wonder.
God Bless,
RyanL
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
I recommend everyone read the book,
A Doctor At Calvary, The Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ As Described by a Surgeon: by Pierre Barbet.
Barbet studied Roman Crucifixion, and explains why most of the art done through the centuries depects Jesus crucifixion as historically inaccurate, but how the Shroud of Turin, accurately
shows how Christ was most likely crucified(Barbet never claims the Shroud to be that of Jesus).
BTW, one piece of info from the book(according to my memory ): Pslam 22, “they peierced my hands and my feet.” In Ancient Jewish understanding, the hand was considered to be from the elbow down to the knuckles, so, the probablility that Jesus was nailed through the wrist and not the palm of his hands, does not contradict scripture.
A Doctor At Calvary, The Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ As Described by a Surgeon: by Pierre Barbet.
Barbet studied Roman Crucifixion, and explains why most of the art done through the centuries depects Jesus crucifixion as historically inaccurate, but how the Shroud of Turin, accurately
shows how Christ was most likely crucified(Barbet never claims the Shroud to be that of Jesus).
BTW, one piece of info from the book(according to my memory
): Pslam 22, “they peierced my hands and my feet.” In Ancient Jewish understanding, the hand was considered to be from the elbow down to the knuckles, so, the probablility that Jesus was nailed through the wrist and not the palm of his hands, does not contradict scripture.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
But this particular study is news.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
Yet the Gospels tell us the Romans were surprised Jesus died so fast - and they had to break the legs of the other two victims, to hasten their death before the passover.
Other contemporary accounts indicate crucified people could live for days.
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mtr01
Guest
Actually, new information has shown Barbet’s conclusions to be untenable. As you may know, Barbet’s conclusion that Christ must have been crucufied through the wrist was based on his findings (through experimentation with cadavers) that a force of 88 pounds of pressure would cause the nail to tear through the palm. Given the angle of the arms (at approx 65 degrees) during crucifixion, Barbet used mathematical formulas and found that the pressure on Christ’s hands would have been greater than 88 pounds…thus he couldn’t have been nailed through the palms.I recommend everyone read the book,
A Doctor At Calvary, The Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ As Described by a Surgeon: by Pierre Barbet.
Barbet studied Roman Crucifixion, and explains why most of the art done through the centuries depects Jesus crucifixion as historically inaccurate, but how the Shroud of Turin, accurately
shows how Christ was most likely crucified(Barbet never claims the Shroud to be that of Jesus).
BTW, one piece of info from the book(according to my memory
Unfortunately his experimental findings were only valid if a crucified body were hanging by the arms only. We know this wasn’t the case in Christ’s crucifixion – his feet were also nailed to the cross. Given that the feet would bear most of the body’s weight (not the arms/hands) the pressure on the hands would actually not surpass the 88 pounds necessary to cause the nail to “slip” through the palms. As a result, the classical depiction of Christ being nailed through the palms is physiologically feasible, and for me, the most likely scenario.
Here’s the website of Frederick Zugibe, who has performed several studies that have contradicted Barbet’s conclusions: Experimental Studies in Crucifixion
exerpt:
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Yerusalyim
Guest
Anyone who has done any study at all outside the bible knows that the Romans had many different ways to crucify people…this is not earth shattering.
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