Images-Statues

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DeFide:
You said, “I believe the act of bowing and kneeling are forms of worship.”

So you now admit that this general statement isn’t true? Good.

You should also realize that Catholics’ signs of respect and honor toward memorial objects are directed toward the real person, not the object itself. For example, if you kiss a statue of Jesus, it doesn’t mean you have affection for the object, but rather you are directing that affection toward the real person. It seems obvious.
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How can anything made with human hands represent the one and only awesome LORD GOD?
 
Dr. Colossus:
I don’t necessarily agree with you that the spiritual is emphasized over the physical. With the advent of the Incarnation, Christ sanctified the material by becoming one with it. In doing so He opened for us what the Church calls a “new economy of images”. In other words, we now posess at some level the ability to physically portray God through His Son. As material and spiritual beings the use of material aids to depict spiritual realities helps us draw closer to God.
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Jesus said His words are spirit and are life. I understand that to mean that the spiritual meaning of His words outweigh the literal meaning.
 
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Lina:
How can anything made with human hands represent the one and only awesome LORD GOD?
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Because that’s *all *it can do–represent God. It can never replace Him, nor come close to telling us all there is to know about Him. But it can draw our minds and our hearts to Him. Think about it. A cross represents God, and His Sacrifice. A fish represents Christ. How are statues any different?
 
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Mickey:
That is called the Manichean heresy where the physical is denied. The Manicheans claimed that “spiritual is good and physical/literal is bad”. That is a dangerous path to re-live. 😦 Remember, the Word was made flesh.
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I’m not familiar with the Manichean heresy. I’m only repeating what Christ said Himself. John 6:63.
 
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Lina:
Jesus said His words are spirit and are life. I understand that to mean that the spiritual meaning of His words outweigh the literal meaning.
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" For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:56)
 
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PJR:
These are all beautiful responses to her question. I would like to know if she has actually seen someone bowing to a statue. I haven’t. She may see genuflection and not realize it is to the tabernacle not the statues around it.

Sometimes people kneel in prayer with statues around of course, the images are reminders of these saints to us as has already been pointed out. No informed Catholic is praying to a statue as she seems to think.
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I was married in a Catholic church and part of the ceremony included kneeling before statues of the holy family.
It only seems that it could be dangerous to those who might not be as informed as you are.
 
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thessalonian:
So the ark of the covenant was animate?

Josh 7
6]
Then Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the evening, he and the elders of Israel; and they put dust upon their heads.

By the way above you indicated that you think that bowing before animates is not worship. If we were to bow down before a cow or a mountain it may or may not be. Also in case of humans it can be as Cornelius in Acts 10 bowed before Peter and Peter said “get up, I am only a man”. Evidently he knew that culturally the centurian was worshipping him, for them bowing down was always worship. Worship is not just external but also from the heart. God is the judge of that. Would you once again have been agast at the Elders and Joshua bowing down before the Ark of the Covenant.

God bles
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Thank you for the example. Very good point.
 
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Lina:
In the Quick Question section I read that Catholics do not worship statues because only God is deserving of adoration. When a Catholic bows to a statue, he is not worshiping it any more than King Solomon worshiped Bathsheba when he bowed to her in 1Kings 2:19.
First, to me there is a difference between bowing to a living being and bowing to something that has been made with human hands. I believe the act of bowing and kneeling are forms of worship.
Psalms 95:6 “O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.”
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By this standard the Jews more than worshiped the Ark. Bowing and kneeling are not worshiping. When someone bows before an image of Chirst it is a recognition that even an image of Christ is holy(to a degree). It is showing respect for even Christs image. Its not worshiping the image.

We are recognizing the awesome holyness and perfectness of Christ when we recognize a representation of him. Really it is not the image that we are respecting, it is Christ himself.
 
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bengeorge:
This brings up a few questions:

If the spiritual is so much more important than the physical, why IS there a “physical” in the first place?
Clarify
And, why did God need to become man?
To fulfill His plan of salvation.
And why the physical sacrifices of the Jews before Christ?
??
And why a physical baptism?
An outward sign?
And why a physical Eucharist?
This,I don’t know.
Fact is, spirit and matter are bound up together here on Earth and, after the Ressurection, in Heaven as well.
The flesh(physical) profiteth nothing.

Physical existence is God’s way of making freedom possible.
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That’s alot. All I know is the Bible if und
 
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elizabeth4truth:
Dear Lina,

I totally see where you are coming from. From the outside it looks bizarre and like idol worship but, it’s not. Before I bow to a statue, I first try to put myself in the presence of the person it represents. Like when I pray to Jesus, I might look at a picture of Him to help me focus all my soul, mind and strength toward Him. Even though I know I can’t see His actual being, I’m trying to place myself in His presence. It’s a visual stimuli or sorts, to focus ones energy from self to God. It helps some, others don’t need it and are able to focus without.

Have you ever kissed a picture of a loved one, who wasn’t near, or held it to remember them in mind, heart or prayer? It’s like that.

Hope this helps.

Elizabeth
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But who knows what He looks like?
 
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Lina:
How can anything made with human hands represent the one and only awesome LORD GOD?
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You mean like the words “LORD” and “GOD”?
 
Dr. Colossus:
Because that’s *all *it can do–represent God. It can never replace Him, nor come close to telling us all there is to know about Him. But it can draw our minds and our hearts to Him. Think about it. A cross represents God, and His Sacrifice. A fish represents Christ. How are statues any different?
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Forgive my ignorance but how does a fish respresent Christ? To me, a cross represents what He did, not him.
 
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Lina:
…to me there is a difference between bowing to a living being and bowing to something that has been made with human hands. I believe the act of bowing and kneeling are forms of worship…
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So I was worshiping my car earlier when I was changing that tire?
 
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jimmy:
By this standard the Jews more than worshiped the Ark. Bowing and kneeling are not worshiping. When someone bows before an image of Chirst it is a recognition that even an image of Christ is holy. It is showing respect for even Christs image. Its not worshiping the image.
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Thank you Jimmy.
 
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Lina:
Forgive my ignorance but how does a fish respresent Christ?
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I was referring to the Jesus Fish that you see on cars and things everywhere nowadays. It represents Christ first and foremost because when a person sees it, they are reminded of Him. It does have a history of use dating back to the 1st century AD, but even if it didn’t, the fact that it is generally recognized as a symbol of Christ is all that is necessary for it to represent Him.
To me, a cross represents what He did, not him.
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How can you separate the action from the man? It must represent both, or else it would make no sense.
 
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Lina:
Please clarify.
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What he’s saying is that Lord and God are simply lines invented and created by human hands to refer to God. They are made as much by man as any statue, yet you don’t have a problem using them to represent the Supreme Being.
 
Dr. Colossus:
I was referring to the Jesus Fish that you see on cars and things everywhere nowadays. It represents Christ first and foremost because when a person sees it, they are reminded of Him. It does have a history of use dating back to the 1st century AD, but even if it didn’t, the fact that it is generally recognized as a symbol of Christ is all that is necessary for it to represent Him.

How can you separate the action from the man? It must represent both, or else it would make no sense.
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Doesn’t that mean anyone can say anything could represent God? I have to go now, but I do appreciate everyone’s sincere feedback.
 
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