L
livingwordunity
Guest
A Jonestown socialist utopia for the world would not be a good thing. Please read the following about it in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
- Status
L
Least
Guest
We live in a Democratic Republic. But thank you for making the point because it further illustrates the impossibility of the exercise of your OP.
Those citing STAR TREK are the dangerous ones. Mr. Roddenbury [sp?] was blessed by THE HOLY SPIRIT W/ his creativity and prognostication (and by the other 2/3of our LORD with his beautiful wife [who played Nurse Chapel in the TV series]). Still, in the loosely quoted words of L. Ron Hubbard, regarding Hubbards own writing, “it’s just fiction.”
(Continuing briey in that vein) Martin Scorsesee is reported to have suggested to Geoge Lucas tha Lucas should try to turn “the Force” into a religion. Thankfully, Lucas is reportedto have called Martin an idiot before walking away, but the danger is very clear and palpable.
L
Least
Guest
I also side with a previous post re: lobbyists. K street should be moved outside of DC for political fairness. It is wrong to have to shout over them.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
There is reason to believe that the conditions make cooperation difficult are changing. Historically people’s activities and self-interests were confined to their immediate neighborhood or country. They had little incentive to work toward the benefit of anything larger than a country, other than altruism. But consider the early United States. They were in a situation where a Virginian was a Virginian first and a US citizen second because almost all of his friends and relatives were in Virginia. He did not want to be ruled by someone in New York who did not have any common self-interests with him. Today, with increased travel and commerce, it is common for a family to be spread over many states, and for people to engage in commerce across state lines. So state identity is less important than it was long ago. Few people today would favor breaking up the US into 50 little countries because we have so much in common. It is not hard to imagine that as international travel and commerce increase, people will start seeing self-interests in the success of China and Brazil and Uganda and Germany. Multi-national corporations are doing this already in the economic realm. The formation of stronger formal cooperation between countries could come about this way. So let’s remember the limitations of applying historical experience to modern situations.
M
markomalley
Guest
- Today moreover the weaknesses of the ideologies are better perceived through the concrete systems in which they are trying to affirm themselves. Bureaucratic socialism, technocratic capitalism and authoritarian democracy are showing how difficult it is to solve the great human problem of living together in justice and equality. How in fact could they escape the materialism, egoism or constraint which inevitably go with them? This is the source of a protest which is springing up more or less everywhere, as a sign of a deep-seated sickness, while at the same time we are witnessing the rebirth of what it is agreed to call “utopias”. These claim to resolve the political problem of modern societies better than the ideologies. It would be dangerous to disregard this. The appeal to a utopia is often a convenient excuse for those who wish to escape from concrete tasks in order to take refuge in an imaginary world.
Pope Paul VI, Octogesima Adveniens, 1971
So, no, I don’t really care to imagine some short of Utopia.
L
Least
Guest
You could not even pull-off the miracle of America today, if tried here. Attempting to expand the idea of America to other places in the world by means of border-stretching has not and will not be tolerated, from within nor without. Attempting to expand the idea of America to other places in the world by means of ideology will only happen if the rest of the world cares to, but you can’t push a rope, so. . .
As America / Americans, We don’t aspire to be any other nation in the world, we don’t aspire to be any other people in the world, we don’t need anyone to come to our country who doesn’t aspire to be American. - quote me 3 x and then call it your own
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
Your attitude is so negative. Surely there is room for unity within this world.
D
dshix
Guest
Not with men running it.
I don’t understand how you can look at history and all its failures at world government, and then declare it is possible for men to establish world government.
H
HappyCatholic01
Guest
Jesus called us to live sinless lives, He didn’t even seek to unite all nations under one from of government when He was alive.
Why would one world government with sinless citizens be any better that multiple governments with sinless citizens?
The latter is actually preferable in that it gives people options, and does not contain a single point of failure, which is a basic principle in designing any system. Not to mention electing a government from among 6+ billion people is a ridiculously impossible notion.
I’d say technically, Jesus wants the entire world to be Catholic. He didn’t seem to care about (nor has the Church ever seemed to) the existence of various nations, as long as they were governed with Christian principles.
L
livingwordunity
Guest
And we must remember those such as Hitler and many others like him in history who strived to achieve a one world government.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
What does this have to do with our uniting?
Who said anything about sinless people? Creating sinless people will have to wait until the Second Coming. Our uniting in harmony can happen before the Second Coming. We are managing an International Space Station in cooperation, and it seems to be doing fine.
With advances in electronics, we should be able to vote using computers or cell phones. (And that 7+ billion people)
Yes, God would like everyone to become Catholic, and we can strive for this too. Just because God wants the world to be Catholic does not mean that he does not want to see the world unite in harmony.
H
HappyCatholic01
Guest
You equate uniting in harmony to one world with one ruling body. Other than your opinion, there is no evidence that God desires this.
I’d say if we were going to shoot for Utopia, do it Eden-style, with self-sustenance and self-governance, with no need for elected officials. You say sinless behavior will have to wait for the second coming. That is simply untrue. Mary showed us this, and no where does it say we can not each live sinless lives. But to think we could somehow all unite and hold hands on common ground without eliminating sin first is silliness.
You asked what sinlessness has to do with us uniting, but a better question is what does uniting have to do with living sinless lives? You seem to equate the two, when in reality, if each of us led sinless lives, there would be no need for any governments at all, as each person would care more about their neighbor than they do themselves, and everyone would be cared for. A planet of Virgin Mary’s has no need for elected rulers.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
Did God want Columbus to discover the Americas and for the US to become a superpower. These thing were not in the Bible either, but they took place and we are now ‘One Nation Under God.’
Again, was it necessary to eliminate sin before the building of America into a superpower? How about having the World grow to 7+ billion people? Then what makes you think we we need to eliminate it before the world unites?
What does uniting have to do with living sinless lives? No, I’m not equating the two, but you are. Again, the world will become sinless only after the Second coming.
L
livingwordunity
Guest
Do you really believe it would be good for one fallible and sinful man to be in control of the whole world? There are many who have had that ambition such as Hitler. Having a variety of world leaders as oppose to one big super leader provides checks and balances between the dictators and those who aren’t so bad. It’s almost an absolute certainty that if an opportunity arises for someone to take control of the world it will a dictator that gets the job since they are usually the most charismatic and aggressive.
D
Darryl_B
Guest
How come the utopic drafts of philosophic constitutions always appear so perfect and promising, but when reality happens it is a vastly different thing.
K
kingal86
Guest
The post-Picard, post-replicator Federation is hardly a utopia, as becomes increasingly clear by Deep Space 9. It’s not really explained how society or the near post scarcity economy on Earth functions or how resources are allocated or work is done, except for Roddenbury idealistically insisting humans no longer have money.
And as well as external warfare with rival empires that kills uncountable billions with terrifying weapons, there’s also a fair number of internal problems: bureaucratic infighting, shady and dubious secret services with unchecked power, domestic insurgencies (e.g. the Marquis), etc. And almost everyone we meet - even off-ship - seems to work for either the military or the state.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
The world government needs not be a single person, but a group of individuals of a political think tank (perhaps a corporation).
M
markomalley
Guest
Interestingly (speaking of Star Trek), it becomes apparent in the later episodes of TNG and DS9 that heresy (against Utopia) was an offense punishable by a lengthy term in a rehab colony.
J
JimG
Guest
A world government would not only be a disaster, but most likely turn into an unmitigated evil.
One need only observe the workings of the United Nations, where abortion is pushed as a fundamental human right, blatant genocide is dismissed as unimportant, and repressive regimes are named to head “human rights” commissions.
The founders of the U.S. found it to be difficult enough to format a representative republic which could merge the disparate interests of metropolitan areas like New York City and the farmers in Ellis County Kansas. Try doing that with the hugely disparate cultures around the globe. Not going to work.
Now, the Catholic Church has a “world wide government.” How does that work? It does it by not governing much. The Code of Canon Law is a one volume book. The U.S. Civil Code takes up entire rooms with hundreds of volumes; so does the U.S. Criminal Code. And there are of course more rooms filed with hundreds of thousands of pages of regulations.
One world government? Nope, I’d rather take the one way trip to Mars.
One need only observe the workings of the United Nations, where abortion is pushed as a fundamental human right, blatant genocide is dismissed as unimportant, and repressive regimes are named to head “human rights” commissions.
The founders of the U.S. found it to be difficult enough to format a representative republic which could merge the disparate interests of metropolitan areas like New York City and the farmers in Ellis County Kansas. Try doing that with the hugely disparate cultures around the globe. Not going to work.
Now, the Catholic Church has a “world wide government.” How does that work? It does it by not governing much. The Code of Canon Law is a one volume book. The U.S. Civil Code takes up entire rooms with hundreds of volumes; so does the U.S. Criminal Code. And there are of course more rooms filed with hundreds of thousands of pages of regulations.
One world government? Nope, I’d rather take the one way trip to Mars.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
Look what happens when people cooperate? World hunger and poverty can come to an end through work for everyone. Imagine the possibilities? Look at the cooperation of the international effort put into the space station. If we can cooperate in the space station, there’s no telling how we can cooperate as an international community.
- Status