Immaculate Conception - Dec 8

[benedictgal]

The selection of which Holy Days are to be observed, as well as whether they may be transferred to the nearest Sunday, are matters decided by the national bishop’s conferences which must then be confirmed by the Vatican. However, the manner in which one may fulfill his obligation is governed by canon law. A literal reading of Canon 1248 supports thistle’s priest, but here is an explanation as to why that canon must be interpreted in light of Canon 19.

Instead, one’s attendance at a 6pm mass can count for either the Immaculate Conception or Sunday, but not both. The only sense in which the word “both” applies is that the same mass will fulfill both obligations for various parishioners - for some it will fulfill their IC obligation, while for others it will count toward their Sunday obligation.

Unfortunately, Canon law has been thrown around so much that it seems as though everyone’s an expert in it. I cannot speak to the situation in the Phillipenes. All I can speak to is what the situation is here in the United States. From what the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Divine Worship told me, in order to satisfy the obligation for the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, the Mass at which one assists must have the prayers and readings proper to the Holy Day. As it is Saturday (notwithstanding the time differential between you and us), it would be best, in the future, for you to check directly with your diocese.

 

[Pug]

I find plenty of opinion in these threads but I could not find any reference to a document. Is there a Church document on this?

As Lily mentioned, you are in a different conference of bishops. I’m assuming the Philippines is not a member of the US conference. First, I can document that which days are Holy Days can vary by conference of bishops. Second, I can document that canon law says one can use any mass on the Holy Day itself or the evening before to satisfy the obligation to assist at mass on the Holy Day. The rest is beyond my ken (and that includes interpretation of the canon law), which is why I started a thread in the first place (I know, it doesn’t look like I started a thread, but that is because CAF has joined together at least three threads into one thread here).

Can. 1246 §1. Sunday, on which by apostolic tradition the paschal mystery is celebrated, must be observed in the universal Church as the primordial holy day of obligation. The following days must also be observed: the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension, the Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, Saint Joseph, Saint Peter and Saint Paul the Apostles, and All Saints.
§2. With the prior approval of the Apostolic See, however, the conference of bishops can suppress some of the holy days of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday.

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

My replies on this thread look confused because I read different answers from the same source in the course of investigating the issue. Anyway, these cuts from canon law are the best I can do to help you with official documentation. There exists slightly more for my conference (US), but I doubt that applies to you.

I have never seen an actual document saying you can’t get two for one concerning a Holy Day and Sunday. That is just what seems to be standard practice when a Holy Day is not abrogated. Of course, I am only familiar with standard practice in my diocese. I’m sorry I can’t be more helpful.

 

[Tepeyac]

From what the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Divine Worship told me, in order to satisfy the obligation for the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, the Mass at which one assists must have the prayers and readings proper to the Holy Day.

What about the following situation: I accompanied a relative to a Saturday evening Mass that was advertised as being for the Immaculate Conception. However, the actual prayers and readings were for the second Sunday of Advent (though the priest mentioned the I.C. at the start of Mass and during the Eucharistic Prayer).

Should my relative then attend Mass again on Sunday, and somehowe “make” Saturday’s Mass count towards the I.C., or can my relative stay home?

Can I, having already attended a vigil Mass with correct readings/prayers for the I.C. on Friday, also stay home on Sunday?

 

[lak611]

What about the following situation: I accompanied a relative to a Saturday evening Mass that was advertised as being for the Immaculate Conception. However, the actual prayers and readings were for the second Sunday of Advent (though the priest mentioned the I.C. at the start of Mass and during the Eucharistic Prayer).

Should my relative then attend Mass again on Sunday, and somehowe “make” Saturday’s Mass count towards the I.C., or can my relative stay home?

Can I, having already attended a vigil Mass with correct readings/prayers for the I.C. on Friday, also stay home on Sunday?

Your relative would need to attend another Mass for Sunday, but you would not. You already went to both the Immaculate Conception Mass (anticipated) and the Sunday Mass (anticipated).

 

[Tepeyac]

Your relative would need to attend another Mass for Sunday, but you would not. You already went to both the Immaculate Conception Mass (anticipated) and the Sunday Mass (anticipated).

But from what the poster wrote above: “in order to satisfy the obligation for the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, the Mass at which one assists must have the prayers and readings proper to the Holy Day.”, it seems like neither the Saturday or Sunday Mass could fulfill the I.C. obligation since they both used or will use Sunday’s readings. I don’t want to be nitpicky but its getting dificult for my relative to get around.

 

[benedictgal]

But from what the poster wrote above: “in order to satisfy the obligation for the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, the Mass at which one assists must have the prayers and readings proper to the Holy Day.”, it seems like neither the Saturday or Sunday Mass could fulfill the I.C. obligation since they both used or will use Sunday’s readings. I don’t want to be nitpicky but its getting dificult for my relative to get around.

I would consult with your diocesan office. There have been so many fonts of misinformation and quotes from canon law by well-meaning people who may or may not be experts on the subject. You need to go to an authoritative source (beyond Catholic Answers, although, having said that, they do a wonderful job with Apologetics, but, when it comes to the Mass, go to your diocese, as the bishop speaks with authority).

I hope this helps.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

The strange thing is that different diocese say different things. In mine, for instance, it was allowed to attend the Saturday 4:30 pm mass for the Solemnity off the Immaculate Conception obligation, even though it was the readings, etc of the Sunday mass (i.e. it was the anticipated Sunday Mass). If you did so, of course, then you had to attend Mass on Sunday as well.

This was reprinted in the diocesan paper as well.

But, from what I can gather, this contradicts other diocese (perhaps?) and evidently contradicts the USCCB.

benedictgal, I know you called the USCCB on this issue. Did what they say match with your Bishop? What would have done in if they didn’t match? (I don’t mean what you would have actually done, but I mean who do you think has the proper authority?)

Thanks!
VC

p.s. I know this has become somewhat of a hot button issue, and I know you have felt attacked, and justifiably so. I just want to reiterate I am not attacking you in any way, please don’t take offense at my post. I am honestly soliciting your opinion because you have obviously done quite a bit of research and put quite a bit of thought into these matters.

 

[feargalmac]

Something I’m seeing here that disturbes me is it seems that many parishes are not offering a Mass for the Immaculate Conception, or a few are just telling their members to come to the regular Saturday instead. Some are offering a Mass for the Immaculate Conception on Friday but too early in the day according to the rules for vigils of Holy Days. Other parishes are not offering a vigil, only one Mass on Saturday morning not only are we seeing the faithful not interested in attending a Holy Day of obligation, but the parishes are it seems are not interested in offering the Mass and vigil as required.

Here in Ireland it was a Holy Day of Obligation, but I live in one of those parishes that didn’t have a Mass yesterday morning. I live in a rural area and it’s almost impossible at times to attend another parish. I couldn’t go on Friday night so had to go to the Saturday night Vigil Mass and again this Morning. Our priest has told us in the past that we need only go to Mass if we want to, Sunday or Holy Day. I’m starting to think that he said this so the Holy Days wouldn’t interrupt his regular schedule.

 

[jmcrae]

Here in Ireland it was a Holy Day of Obligation, but I live in one of those parishes that didn’t have a Mass yesterday morning. I live in a rural area and it’s almost impossible at times to attend another parish. I couldn’t go on Friday night so had to go to the Saturday night Vigil Mass and again this Morning. Our priest has told us in the past that we need only go to Mass if we want to, Sunday or Holy Day. I’m starting to think that he said this so the Holy Days wouldn’t interrupt his regular schedule.

May God save our souls from bad priests.

I hope it is just that he has honestly misunderstood something, rather than that he is deliberately being lazy.

 

[dessert]

Here in Ireland it was a Holy Day of Obligation, but I live in one of those parishes that didn’t have a Mass yesterday morning. I live in a rural area and it’s almost impossible at times to attend another parish. I couldn’t go on Friday night so had to go to the Saturday night Vigil Mass and again this Morning. Our priest has told us in the past that we need only go to Mass if we want to, Sunday or Holy Day. I’m starting to think that he said this so the Holy Days wouldn’t interrupt his regular schedule.

I also did this because we had a cookie walk I needed to work at and didn’t want to go to the Friday night Mass, Friday morning didn’t count and so ended up hearing the Sat night sermon same as Sunday 8am which was the same and I wanted to attend to go to the breakfast. But the Blessed Virgin knows I was there anyways and I read the mass for her on Sat instead of sunday of the sunday :hypno:
Don’t ask.

We are fortunate that our priest likes to say a lot of masses many times twice a day. and funerals and weddings to boot.

 

[benedictgal]

The strange thing is that different diocese say different things. In mine, for instance, it was allowed to attend the Saturday 4:30 pm mass for the Solemnity off the Immaculate Conception obligation, even though it was the readings, etc of the Sunday mass (i.e. it was the anticipated Sunday Mass). If you did so, of course, then you had to attend Mass on Sunday as well.

This was reprinted in the diocesan paper as well.

But, from what I can gather, this contradicts other diocese (perhaps?) and evidently contradicts the USCCB.

benedictgal, I know you called the USCCB on this issue. Did what they say match with your Bishop? What would have done in if they didn’t match? (I don’t mean what you would have actually done, but I mean who do you think has the proper authority?)

Thanks!
VC

p.s. I know this has become somewhat of a hot button issue, and I know you have felt attacked, and justifiably so. I just want to reiterate I am not attacking you in any way, please don’t take offense at my post. I am honestly soliciting your opinion because you have obviously done quite a bit of research and put quite a bit of thought into these matters.

The new rector of our cathedral, who also happens to be the bishop’s new pointman on Divine Worship, announced from the pulpit that the Cathedral would have three Masses for the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception (this was a couple of weeks ago). I mentioned to him that my parish hadn’t scheduled anything. All of a sudden, the parishes were now having to schedule Masses. Our bishop, for all of his foibles, does tow the USCCB line.