P
pocohombre
Guest
Agreed, but many do claim a necessity. As an early father wrote on a separate issue , that just because God could do such and such a thing, let us not suppose that he did.
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T
thenobes
Guest
That’s not the point. He did it. We are discussing the motives of God for doing it. The Church has already decided that it has been done. It appears the motives can be narrowed down, and some ask for the motive, so the Church has given it.Agreed, but many do claim a necessity. As an early father wrote on a separate issue , that just because God could do such and such a thing, let us not suppose that he did.
peace
steve
P
pocohombre
Guest
So post 39 says it was NOT a logical necessity ? Is this CC teaching ? It does deal with motive.That’s not the point. He did it. We are discussing the motives of God for doing it. The Church has already decided that it has been done. It appears the motives can be narrowed down, and some ask for the motive, so the Church has given it.
peace
steve
B
brb3
Guest
Ha ! What did Augustine say ?Not sure what you mean by “ordinary” and “just like any other girl”. That certainly is one end of the spectrum , not quite correct to biblical illumination. I would also say to say she was with no OS and PS and queen of heaven is the other end of the spectrum, not quite correct to the biblical illumination. Are you saying John was also without sin ? Not even St. Augustine said this.
I go by Christ’s testimony to John. MATT. 11:11-14
" Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has risen NO ONE GREATER than John the Baptist; …and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come."
T
thenobes
Guest
No, I don’t believe that that is CC teaching.So post 39 says it was NOT a logical necessity ? Is this CC teaching ? It does deal with motive.
I think the closest that can be said about the statement’s truth, is that the necessity cannot be logically proven, or needs to be.
peace
steve
P
pocohombre
Guest
Yes and what ,that means no original sin or sin ? I suppose if Mary is sinless in all ways so would John have to be also to be at least greater. I would consider it to be preposition based on another preposition . Also , “he who is least in the kingdom is greater than he” applies to us .In some way we are greater than John .Your scripture does not deal with OS/PS in my opinion… St Augustine said scripture says all have sinned , then made the exception for Mary. In my opinion it is a classic case for scripture giving way to a developing, seemingly harmless tradition. He also did not envision praying to her ,making statues of her ,calling her queen of heaven .Ha ! What did Augustine say ?
I go by Christ’s testimony to John. MATT. 11:11-14
" Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has risen NO ONE GREATER than John the Baptist; …and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come."
A
Aloysium
Guest
So if i have this straight:
Gen 2: 15 Yahweh God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden to cultivate and take care of it.
16 Then Yahweh God gave the man this command, ‘You are free to eat of all the trees in the garden.
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are not to eat; for, the day you eat of that, you are doomed to die.’
Gen 3:22 Then Yahweh God said, ‘Now that the man has become like one of us in knowing good from evil, he must not be allowed to reach out his hand and pick from the tree of life too, and eat and live for ever!’
23 So Yahweh God expelled him from the garden of Eden, to till the soil from which he had been taken.
24 He banished the man, and in front of the garden of Eden he posted the great winged creatures and the fiery flashing sword, to guard the way to the tree of life.
so God created man to tend the garden and to be in communion with Him
eating of the tree of life, he would have carried out his duties in perpetuity
sinning, he was banished from Eden
no longer having access to the original tree of life, he would suffer death
Mother Mary, sin-free but in this world, would ultimately die
she was assumed into heaven
we who are not sin-free, are redeemed through Jesus, our Tree of Life on earth
and are thereby granted eternal life in Him
sounds right to me
Gen 2: 15 Yahweh God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden to cultivate and take care of it.
16 Then Yahweh God gave the man this command, ‘You are free to eat of all the trees in the garden.
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are not to eat; for, the day you eat of that, you are doomed to die.’
Gen 3:22 Then Yahweh God said, ‘Now that the man has become like one of us in knowing good from evil, he must not be allowed to reach out his hand and pick from the tree of life too, and eat and live for ever!’
23 So Yahweh God expelled him from the garden of Eden, to till the soil from which he had been taken.
24 He banished the man, and in front of the garden of Eden he posted the great winged creatures and the fiery flashing sword, to guard the way to the tree of life.
so God created man to tend the garden and to be in communion with Him
eating of the tree of life, he would have carried out his duties in perpetuity
sinning, he was banished from Eden
no longer having access to the original tree of life, he would suffer death
Mother Mary, sin-free but in this world, would ultimately die
she was assumed into heaven
we who are not sin-free, are redeemed through Jesus, our Tree of Life on earth
and are thereby granted eternal life in Him
sounds right to me
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