Immaculate Conception of Mary + Lutherans?

[JonNC]

=Esdra;7366492]Hi Jon,

to what did that “Thanks for this” refer to?

it was referring to Alex’s pointing out the way we do honor Mary, in a very biblical way, going beyond specific feasts in her specific honor. It presents the very Christocentric attitude of Lutheranism.

But not to seeing Mary at every feast in the liturgical calendar and seeing Her always beside Jesus, as Alex has written?

Yes. Very Christocentric.

Actually, I am rather confused that Lutherans do honour Mary (actually more than I had expected.)

Why? Read some of Luther’s quotes regarding the Blessed Virgin, or references to her in the confessions.

Normally you hear among Catholics (at least I did): “Among Lutherans there is no Mary” - which means that she isn’t honoured and Christ is the very centre of their believe.

Perhaps you’ve hit upon why, though we honor her, it is in the light of Christ. Some Catholics might view that as not honoring her at all, or enough, though I haven’t heard Catholics here say “Among Lutherans this is no Mary.”

(Actually similar then in my Church, which you so don’t like, Jon! )

I’m sorry I’ve left you that impression. Disagreeing with and disliking are two different things, it seems to me. I strongly disagree with Reformed and Baptist/anabaptist beliefs in some areas, but I certainly don’t dislike them.

But as I have never been in a “real Lutheran service”, but only in “mixed services between Reformed and Lutherans” (2-4 times was that), I guess I can’t get that fully…

Understood.

Jon

 

[Esdra]

it was referring to Alex’s pointing out the way we do honor Mary, in a very biblical way, going beyond specific feasts in her specific honor. It presents the very Christocentric attitude of Lutheranism.

Yes. Very Christocentric.

Christocentric? mhm Not too sure… please explain this point.

Why? Read some of Luther’s quotes regarding the Blessed Virgin, or references to her in the confessions.

Right, if I have time I’ll have a look in Luther’s catechism(s). I guess there it will be also?

Perhaps you’ve hit upon why, though we honor her, it is in the light of Christ. Some Catholics might view that as not honoring her at all, or enough, though I haven’t heard Catholics here say “Among Lutherans this is no Mary.”

Okay, THAT sounds intersting. I’d like to hear more about that.

I’m sorry I’ve left you that impression. Disagreeing with and disliking are two different things, it seems to me. I strongly disagree with Reformed and Baptist/anabaptist beliefs in some areas, but I certainly don’t dislike them.

Yeah, somehow it sounded for me that you don’t like (ana)baptists!
But great that you don’t. You see, we both have the same “Church Fathers” (all three: Lutherans, Reformed and (Ana)baptists.)

Understood.

Yeah, I really guess that there’d be major differences between a “united” Evangelical worship, a Lutherans and a Reformed.
I’d really be interested visiting each of the three. 'Though that’s rather difficult here in Austria.
As all three are minor-Churches. (The Catholic Church is the national religion!)

Esdra

 

[JonNC]

=Esdra;7370332]Christocentric? mhm Not too sure… please explain this point.

For example, we claim Mary to be the Holy Theotokos, the God bearer, the Mother of God.
And while we honor her for this, it is Christ that is at the center of this doctrine.

Right, if I have time I’ll have a look in Luther’s catechism(s). I guess there it will be also?

Though not Luther’s words;
From the Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord

On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother’s womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin.

bookofconcord.org/sd-person.php

Jon