Immaculate Conception transferred to Monday, obligation abrogated

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zach
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Z

Zach

Guest
At least in the US Roman rite, beyond that I don’t know. It falls on Sunday this year so it being Advent the solemnity is transferred to Monday. The obligation is abrogated. I usually can’t make morning Mass so I’m hoping even though the obligation isn’t in effect there will be an evening Mass. I’ll have to wait to check the Bulletins this weekend or call around to parishes or check online Parish websites or bulletins. Or maybe someone here can inform me if in this scenario there are still evening Masses for the transfered holy day even though the obligation is abrogated? I would suspect yes but being I just came back to the Church less than two years ago after decades away I’m not 100% sure so please go easy on me and no scolding 😁
 
Last edited:
The current priest at my parish seems to want to celebrate the Immaculate Conception on the 2nd Sunday of Advent.
Point being, it depends on the parish, and how the priest sees fit to celebrate it. I don’t see why he wouldn’t celebrate it for the evening mass on Monday, but again, I have seen it vary from priest to priest.
Only one way to know for sure is to go there and see for yourself 😁
 
I thought it was transferred because the Advent Sunday Mass took precedence I didn’t think it was up to the parish.
 
My guess is if it’s not an HDO then churches will follow their daily Mass schedule. Use MassTimes app to see if there’s an evening Mass in your area.
 
The 2nd Sunday of Advent does take precedence, it’s true. I’m by no means an expert on this either. If the Immaculate Conception is to be celebrated, it would be on the Monday. In the case of my parish, the church is literally called Immaculate Conception. So I guess he wanted to do it on the Sunday. If this exception is confusing, I don’t blame you, because I was surprised by this priest’s particular decision myself. Normally, yes, there should be an evening mass, unless your parish doesn’t have evening masses on Holy Days of Obligation, or a substitute of such.
 
Zach said:
I thought it was transferred because the Advent Sunday Mass took precedence I didn’t think it was up to the parish.
Click to expand...
Correct. It is not up to the priest to celebrate the Immaculate Conception instead of the 2nd Sunday of Advent. Priests have to celebrate the 2nd Sunday of Advent as it trumps Immaculate Conception.

As to whether or not there will be an evening Mass at any given parish, that is going to depend on a lot of different variables. I know in my parish, we have a usual schedule for Holy Days of Obligation which includes an evening Mass. That is not the schedule being followed in my parish. We are only having a morning Mass. What other parishes choose to do is going to be determined by the pastor.

EDIT: I should add that Doughbro’s situation is unique as the feast is the patron feast of his parish. In those cases, the feast can be transferred to the nearest Sunday and supersede it. That wouldn’t be the case for parishes of any other name.
 
Last edited:
Joe_5859 said:
Correct. It is not up to the priest to celebrate the Immaculate Conception instead of the 2nd Sunday of Advent.
Click to expand...
The priest at my parish celebrates both on the same day, insisting on the recessional hymn to be a Marian hymn. I’m not sure if this is allowed?
 
Dougbro1 said:
The priest at my parish celebrates both on the same day, insisting on the recessional hymn to be a Marian hymn. I’m not sure if this is allowed?
Click to expand...
Since your parish is actually named “Immaculate Conception”, it’s a bit different. I know my parish transfers our patron saint to Sunday. I know it gets more confusing with other liturgical seasons besides Ordinary Time, and I confess I don’t know all the nuances that would bring. I’m sure your pastor is doing it correctly.
 
The priest will likely use the readings for Advent but have a Marian hymn, talk about Mary during the homily, etc. This is allowed.
Not sure if there are special rules for saint feast days. Many churches I know have their saint celebration on Sunday of the week it’s happening during, but they don’t actually change the Sunday readings to the saint day readings. They simply talk about the saint or they have some prayers, a procession, refreshments etc after Mass.
 
Last edited:
Dougbro1 said:
insisting on the recessional hymn to be a Marian hymn. I’m not sure if this is allowed?
Click to expand...
At that point, the Mass has ended, so the recessional hymn is fine. However, the Second Sunday of Advent does indeed supersede the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.
 
I stand corrected then. It looks like doughbro’s pastor is just adding a little marian flavor to the Mass with the choice of hymns. There’s nothing wrong with that.
 
Dougbro1 said:
The current priest at my parish seems to want to celebrate the Immaculate Conception on the 2nd Sunday of Advent.
Point being, it depends on the parish, and how the priest sees fit to celebrate it…
Click to expand...
Not really. See below.
Dougbro1 said:
In the case of my parish, the church is literally called Immaculate Conception. So I guess he wanted to do it on the Sunday. If this exception is confusing, I don’t blame you, because I was surprised by this priest’s particular decision myself.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is very odd. Substitutions are sometimes allowed during the Sundays of Ordinary Time
[boldface: mine]:
58. For the pastoral good of the faithful, it is permitted to observe on Sundays in Ordinary Time those celebrations that fall during the week and that are agreeable to the devotion of the faithful, provided the celebrations rank above that Sunday in the Table of Liturgical Days. The Mass of such celebrations may be used at all the celebrations of Mass at which the people are present.
59. Precedence among liturgical days, as regards their celebration, is governed solely by the following Table.
Table of Liturgical Days
according to their order of precedence
I
1. The Paschal Triduum of the Passion and Resurrection of the Lord.
2. The Nativity of the Lord, the Epiphany, the Ascension, and Pentecost.
Sundays of Advent, Lent, and Easter.
Ash Wednesday.
Weekdays of Holy Week from Monday up to and including Thursday.
Days within the Octave of Easter.
3. Solemnities inscribed in the General Calendar, whether of the Lord, of the Blessed Virgin Mary or of Saints.
The Commemoration of All the Faithful Departed.
4. Proper Solemnities, namely:
a. The Solemnity of the principal Patron of the place, city or state.
b. The Solemnity of the dedication and of the anniversary of the dedication of one’s own church.
c. The Solemnity of the Title of one’s own church.
d. The Solemnity either of the Title or of the Founder or of the principal Patron of an Order or Congregation
(…et cetera)
–From “Universal Norms on the Liturgical Year and the General Roman Calendar” as promulgated by Pope Paul VI

On the surface of it, the decision for an Immaculate Conception Catholic Church to celebrate the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception in place of a Sunday of Advent does not seem at all kosher?
Perhaps he is accustomed to transfering the patronal feast of a different parish, one whose patron’s feast day falls during Ordinary Time, and he’s extending the practice to a parish whose patronal feast falls during Advent? (I’m not saying that makes it kosher, but that it could be a decision made out of “liturgical habit,” so to speak?)
Joe_5859 said:
I stand corrected then. It looks like doughbro’s pastor is just adding a little marian flavor to the Mass with the choice of hymns. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Click to expand...
You are right that there are Marian hyms that would be an acceptable choice, even though Our Lady does not appear directly in the Liturgy of the Word for the 2nd Sunday of Advent.
 
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself said:
The priest will likely use the readings for Advent but have a Marian hymn, talk about Mary during the homily, etc. This is allowed.
Not sure if there are special rules for saint feast days. Many churches I know have their saint celebration on Sunday of the week it’s happening during, but they don’t actually change the Sunday readings to the saint day readings. They simply talk about the saint or they have some prayers, a procession, refreshments etc after Mass.
Click to expand...
The latitude for choosing hymns is very broad, as far as I know, provided that the hymns that are chosen are ones that are appropriate for Holy Mass generally. There is a difference between even a truly odd aesthetic choice and a true liturgical abuse.
 
Last edited:
Our parish is celebrating it at the regular Monday morning mass. The difference is it will be in the church instead of the chapel in case more people show up.
 
JulianN said:
At that point, the Mass has ended, so the recessional hymn is fine. However, the Second Sunday of Advent does indeed supersede the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.
Click to expand...
My FSSP parish bulletin lists just the immaculate conception feast for Sunday
 
tstadheim said:
My FSSP parish bulletin lists just the immaculate conception feast for Sunday
Click to expand...
That’s because the Extraordinary Form and Ordinary Form use different calendars. In the Ordinary Form nothing supersedes the Sundays of Advent and so the Immaculate Conception is transferred (without its corresponding obligation to attend Mass) to the next day, Monday 9 December. In the Extraordinary Form the Immaculate Conception supersedes the Sundays of Advent and so remains on Sunday 8 December.

So anyone who would like to hear the propers of the Immaculate Conception but can’t make it to Mass on Monday, I invite you to consider finding a TLM on Sunday! 🙂
 
I wonder, since it’s a Solemnity, is it possible for a parish to celebrate the 2nd Sunday of Advent in the morning/afternoon Masses and then provide an Anticipated Mass of the Immaculate Conception on Sunday evening much like they do on Saturday evenings for the next Sunday liturgy?
 
Zach said:
Or maybe someone here can inform me if in this scenario there are still evening Masses for the transfered holy day even though the obligation is abrogated?
Click to expand...
That is up to your pastor.

I would imagine Monday will follow the normal mass schedule, whatever that is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top