Immaculate Conception transferred to Monday, obligation abrogated

[Cor_ad_Cor]

For Sunday evening, a parish could in practice do as they wish, but the liturgically correct answer is (following the Liturgy of the Hours, for instance) it remains the 2nd Sunday of Advent until midnight, then Monday can be Immaculate Conception due to the calendar rankings posted above.

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

Is that how concurrence works in the New Calendar (and Solemnity/Feast/Memorial ranking schema)? My knowledge of it is admittedly very minimal. I know in the Extraordinary Form the order of precedence doesn’t matter in regards to concurrence, only the actual rank (1st, 2nd, 3rd Class Feast, etc. which would be analogous to the Ordinary Form’s Solemnity/Feast/Memorial). In the case of two feasts concurring that are of the same rank but one is of higher precedence than the other all what matters is their sequential order: the first day gets a First Vespers only and the second one gets both a 1st and 2nd Vespers. In other words even in the EF had the Immaculate Conception (1st Class) landed on a Saturday, it would still conclude on Saturday evening giving way to the 1st Vespers of Xth Sunday of Advent (also 1st class but lower in precedence).

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

In the OF, there’s no concurrence, per se. If two things potentially occur on the same day, the calendar rankings (above) determine what day it is. If they’re equal - which is unusual but possible, then there’s discretion of the pastor/bishop. A decision has to be made somewhere.

In private, for the LOTH, you can do a commemoration in a sense, but it’s not foreseen by the rubrics to my knowledge (the caveat of everything I wrote!).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

In the Extraordinary Form the Immaculate Conception supersedes the Sundays of Advent and so remains on Sunday 8 December.

Honestly, this makes much more sense to me. Without Mother Mary’s Immaculate Conception, there wouldn’t BE an Advent.

 

[Dougbro1]

So I stand corrected.

 

[TomH1]

At least in the US Roman rite, beyond that I don’t know.

The Immaculate Conception is never a holy day of obligation (HDO) here in England & Wales. Each bishops’ conference can choose to remove the precept from solemnities. The Holy See requests at least one in honour of Our Lady is retained. Our bishops only kept the Assumption as a HDO. They removed the precept from both the Immaculate Conception and Mary, Mother of God (January 1st).

 

[1ke]

The Immaculate Conception is never a holy day of obligation (HDO) here in England & Wales.

However the feast day precedence and liturgical calendar is the same— IC is moved to Dec 9, 2nd Sunday of Advent is celebrated on Dec 8 in England and Wales.

ICis the patronal feast of the US, so I don’t see bishops here removing the holy day of obligation designation. (It retains HDO status even when it falls on Saturday or Monday, whereas Assumption, Mother of God, and All Saints are abrogated. When it falls on Sunday and is transferred to Monday is the only time it isn’t a HDO in the US).

Assumption and Mary Mother of God also remain HDOs in the US.

 

[ioannes_pius]

Even if the Immaculate Conception is a patron always feast and falls on a Sunday it Advent, it is not observed on that Sunday. Priests aren’t permitted to observe the liturgical calendar in any way they want.

 

[paperwight]

Even if the Immaculate Conception is a patron always feast and falls on a Sunday it Advent, it is not observed on atheist Sunday. Priests aren’t permitted to observe the liturgical calendar in any way they want.

‘atheist Sunday’?

 

[Vico]

At least in the US Roman rite, beyond that I don’t know. It falls on Sunday this year so it being Advent the solemnity is transferred to Monday. The obligation is abrogated. I usually can’t make morning Mass so I’m hoping even though the obligation isn’t in effect there will be an evening Mass. I’ll have to wait to check the Bulletins this weekend or call around to parishes or check online Parish websites or bulletins. Or maybe someone here can inform me if in this scenario there are still evening Masses for the transfered holy day even though the obligation is abrogated? I would suspect yes but being I just came back to the Church less than two years ago after decades away I’m not 100% sure so please go easy on me and no scolding

In the Byzantine Catholic Church the prayers for the Sunday Resurrection Tone 1 are used this year on December 8, 2019, with the addition of the prayers for the Maternity of Holy Anna (Troparion, Kontakion, Prokeimenon, Alleluia, Magnification and Irmos, and Communion Hymn Psalm 132, 1 sung to the St. Nicholas Hymn melody).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

‘atheist Sunday’?

His spellchecker messed up. I’m guessing he meant “on a Sunday”.
It also made “patronal feast” into “patron always” feast.

I have the same type problems constantly on Android mobile and I cannot get them to go away no matter how much I try.

 

[ioannes_pius]

Oof, good call.

 

[TomH1]

I am aware that the Sundays of Advent, inter alia, take precedence over all solemnities. I was simply answering the OP’s enquiry whether the Immaculate Conception is a HDO in other places. I was telling the OP that here in England and Wales it is not. It is the same in Scotland. However, Ireland does observe it as an HDO.

So, as elsewhere, this year Sunday 8th December will be the Second Sunday of Advent and the Immaculate Conception, being a solemnity, will be transferred to Monday 9th. Where Mass is celebrated or the Office recited on that day it will be for the Immaculate Conception. However, parish priests (you call them pastors in North America) will not be obliged to offer a Mass pro populo and people will not be obliged to go to Mass. Indeed, they never are on the Immaculate Conception in England and Wales.

 

[Zach]

Thanks for all the responses. I checked the bulletins for my parish and another local one and they both are having Monday evening Immaculate Conception Masses even though it’s not an obligation. This is good for me because like I said in the original post I usually can’t make weekday morning masses.

 

[ioannes_pius]

I would just like to point out, if I may, that the immaculate Conception superseding a Sunday in Advent is a peculiarity of the 1962 calendar. In the calendar before that, Sundays in Advent superseded the Immaculate Conception. Additionally, in the more ancient calendar, when Dec. 8th happened to fall on a Sunday, it would be transferred to Tuesday. The reason for this was so that a First Vespers could be had. At least, a local priest told me this.

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against the 1962 calendar; I’m just pointing out this peculiarity. I quite like it

 

[TomH1]

Yes, those who celebrate the Extraordinary Form will observe the Immaculate Conception tomorrow (Sunday 8th December 2019) and the Second Sunday of Advent will be commemorated. However, it is my understanding that whether you observe the Extraordinary Form or the Ordinary one it is the current holy days of obligation (HDO) that people are bound to observe. Of course, tomorrow is a HDO, whatever you observe, by virtue of it being a Sunday.

 

[Phemie]

Our Pastor seemed surprised yesterday when, after he told us he’d be celebrating the Mass of the Immaculate Conception today, we said, “But it’s observed on Monday because it’s outranked by the Second Sunday of Advent!”

He insisted that since he wouldn’t be here tomorrow (heading out to the Ordination of our new Bishop), he would celebrate today but use the readings for Advent so the folks in the pews and the readers wouldn’t be confused. Doesn’t seem to realize that those who always follow in their missals will be confused when the Propers don’t match.

 

[twf]

This is what we did on Sep 8. Our Lady’s nativity was superseded by the Sunday this year (and as it’s a feast not a solemnity, it was not transferred). The readings and propers were for the Sunday, but Father talked about Our Lady’s nativity and the recessional was a Marian hymn.

 

[hcruz402]

I can’t speak for other countries, but this is how it works, in the United States:

The Masses for the Immaculate Conception will only be celebrated, today (Monday, December 9). All of the Masses, yesterday (Sunday, December 8) (i.e., the readings, texts, etc. used at these Masses), must have been for/celebrated the Second Sunday of Advent, not the Immaculate Conception, since the Advent Sunday takes precedence (This includes Masses celebrated yesterday evening).

Also, remember that in the United States, the Immaculate Conception is not a Holy Day of Obligation, this year.

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

I would just like to point out, if I may, that the immaculate Conception superseding a Sunday in Advent is a peculiarity of the 1962 calendar. In the calendar before that, Sundays in Advent superseded the Immaculate Conception.

A few calendars before that.

Pope St. Pius V made it such that the Sundays of Advent and Lent were utterly inviolable (like they are today in the 1969 rubrics), and this was changed by Pope St. Pius X in the early 20th century, a few ordos before the General Roman Calendar of 1960 and the restructuring of feasts using the 1st/2nd/3rd Class system. In fact, during this time The Immaculate Conception still technically outranked the Sundays of Advent (Immaculate Conception was a 1st Class Double while Adventen and Lenten Sundays were 2nd Class Doubles) but the rubrics specified these Sundays as nevertheless impeding higher classed feasts.

Pope St. Pius X made it such that the higher ranked feasts (1st Class Doubles) impede the lower ranked Sundays (2nd Class Doubles) in 1913, then Venerable Pope Pius XII raised the Adventen/Lenten Sundays to 1st Class Double in 1955, effectively undoing what Pope St. Pius X did with the relative impediments of the feasts. In 1960 Pope St. John XXIII completely restructured the complex ranking schema with a simplified 1st/2nd/3rd Class system (classes that would later be renamed to Solemnity/Feast/Memorial respectively by Pope St. Paul VI). This rendered both the Adventen Sundays and the Immaculate Conception as 1st Class Feasts, whose relative position in precedence was governed by the General Rubrics of the Roman Mass & Breviary (1960) in which the Immaculate Conception once again explicitly (and uniquely) outranked the Sundays of Advent.

Finally, Pope St. Paul VI reverted the ordo back to the practice of Adventen/Lenten Sundays being utterly inviolable as was the case in Pope St. Pius V’s day. Long story short: this is one of those rare instances where the so called Novus Ordo is actually more traditional than the TLM of 1962.

Honestly, this makes much more sense to me. Without Mother Mary’s Immaculate Conception, there wouldn’t BE an Advent.

I personally take the opposite position: Mother Mary wouldn’t have been immaculately conceived if there was never an Advent of Our Lord, since her Immaculate Conception occurred due to the anticipated application of the merits of Our Lord’s Passion, which in turn could never have occurred had he never come in the flesh in the first place, but I suppose that puts us in a sort of theological chicken/egg paradox.